Crave - $199 Synth from Behringer

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Chopper
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Post by Chopper » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:02 am

Again, when i say "group-bullying" , this is what i am refering to. The fact that we all go into bitching or praising them straight away as a company is still a form of advertising.

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Post by Panason » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:37 am

Behringer know that any reaction, good or bad, is a reaction anyway.
This can work for people who are selling themselves and/or an ideology.

Behringer sell physical products, and negative publicity will reduce sales. This is why they are fully engaged in damage control on Gearsludge. They are trying very hard to undo the deserved reputation for peddling shit quality gear. We'll see how their cheap synths fare in a few years from now. I can see a lot of Deepminds failing.

But of course some of the bitching is coming from collectors and peddlers of vintage gear who ignore the fact that Behringer's entry is a direct consequence of their greed.

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Post by Muzone » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:49 am

Chopper wrote:..... The fact that we all go into bitching or praising them straight away as a company is still a form of advertising.
For sure - it's almost a guarantee that the main sections of Muffs and the "other forum that we pretend to hate" are always going to have a Behringer thread on the first page.

Haterz are doing the man's work for him :lol:

as of now, 6 B-threads on first page of Muffs "general gear" Vs 4 on fist page of GS "Electronic Music Instruments..."

Looks like we've outslutted the slutz :lol:

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:13 am

I really don't get the hate. Most of these legacy synths have had parts ripped from them in some form of other and used by other manufacturers. They have been recreated in software form also. And now we are given the opportunity to have a hardware version, with no upkeep required and a warranty.

The sound is pretty spot on (though this is also vigorously debated), and the price point is amazing.

This debate will go round and round in circles but I don't think there will be a long term impact on smaller companies, there's this image that the Behringer gear will give "the less fortunate" a chance to try legacy gear out. I think that's wrong and patronising. It gives "everyone" a chance, who may not have even had an interest in the product to try it out.

I would never have bought an SH-101 or a VC330, but when dangled with the carrot of a hardware version at the price point it's hard not to bite.

Hasn't stopped me buying other gear, it's just helped me discover gear I'd have not of thought of trying out before.

Surely thats a good thing? (Unless you hate my videos :hihi: )

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Post by Muzone » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:26 am

Sounds From The Shed wrote:I really don't get the hate.....
It's just a part of the mob culture I think, I see it a lot online - posters just want to jump on a bandwagon for a bit of peer approval......

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Post by sneak-thief » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am

Panason wrote:We'll see how their cheap synths fare in a few years from now. I can see a lot of Deepminds failing.
Ironically, the Deepmind is loosely based on the Roland Juno 106 and I'll bet you the Deepmind failure rate will be much lower. My guess is that by now, 80% of 106's have failed/failing voice chips. Maybe even more!

There are a bunch of 80's synths from Roland that have high failure rates. 101's, 303's, 606's also spring to mind.

Reasons: conformal coatings that failed and become moisture wicks (106), acidic battery compartments destroying chips (606, 303, 101), shitty power switches coupled with poor design (101).

And the king of the all - psu caps going bad (909, MKS-XX, etc.)


The more important question here is: what is the expected lifespan of a synth? What are parts that are reasonable long-term "consumables"? PSU caps? Bushings? Pots & buttons? Display backlights?

For example, was Roland really cutting corners with their 106 voice conformal coating or was it a completely unexpected failure? There's little point in calling out any mfgr just because they make a cheap synth unless you can identify some specific egregious design choice(s).

Anyhow, don't care about B. either way - just wanted to toss in another perspective.


(Note: This is based on a 5-year stint repairing synths professionally in Berlin.)
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Post by anselmi » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:44 pm

sneak-thief wrote:There are a bunch of 80's synths from Roland that have high failure rates. 101's, 303's, 606's also spring to mind.

Reasons: conformal coatings that failed and become moisture wicks (106), acidic battery compartments destroying chips (606, 303, 101), shitty power switches coupled with poor design (101).

And the king of the all - psu caps going bad (909, MKS-XX, etc.)
don´t forget the micromodular´s blue painting! :razz:

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Post by dubonaire » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:31 pm

Muzone wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:I really don't get the hate.....
It's just a part of the mob culture I think, I see it a lot online - posters just want to jump on a bandwagon for a bit of peer approval......
This is a totally bizarre conversation. Please all of you complaining about mob behaviour go back and read the full thread. This thread has been almost entirely positive. There is one post by Metasonix concerned that Moog might be threatened and one post that briefly mentioned Behringer doing more teasing than releasing and that is basically it. And that post got ridiculously labelled as "group-bullying" You guys are shadow boxing. Do you not realise you are being the so-called mob?! I'll leave it to you to fight your invisible enemy.

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Post by Muzone » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:07 am

dubonaire wrote:
This is a totally bizarre conversation.....
always the best type ;)

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Post by Chopper » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:43 am

dubonaire wrote:
Muzone wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:I really don't get the hate.....
It's just a part of the mob culture I think, I see it a lot online - posters just want to jump on a bandwagon for a bit of peer approval......
This is a totally bizarre conversation. Please all of you complaining about mob behaviour go back and read the full thread. This thread has been almost entirely positive. There is one post by Metasonix concerned that Moog might be threatened and one post that briefly mentioned Behringer doing more teasing than releasing and that is basically it. And that post got ridiculously labelled as "group-bullying" You guys are shadow boxing. Do you not realise you are being the so-called mob?! I'll leave it to you to fight your invisible enemy.
Again, you took my comment "group bullying" the complete wrong way, as i mostly agree with you.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:50 am

Chopper wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
Muzone wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:I really don't get the hate.....
It's just a part of the mob culture I think, I see it a lot online - posters just want to jump on a bandwagon for a bit of peer approval......
This is a totally bizarre conversation. Please all of you complaining about mob behaviour go back and read the full thread. This thread has been almost entirely positive. There is one post by Metasonix concerned that Moog might be threatened and one post that briefly mentioned Behringer doing more teasing than releasing and that is basically it. And that post got ridiculously labelled as "group-bullying" You guys are shadow boxing. Do you not realise you are being the so-called mob?! I'll leave it to you to fight your invisible enemy.
Again, you took my comment "group bullying" the complete wrong way, as i mostly agree with you.
No, you over reacted and a bunch of people formed a view there was some kind of mob attacking Behringer when that was not the case.

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Post by Panason » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:09 am

I wonder where the concept that it is bad to " attack " companies (especially multinational corporations) came from. Probably an American thing, where people have been brainwashed to believe that corporations are the same as individual people ( so as to justify legislation for corporate personhood).

This is similar to gamers "supporting" companies that continuously exploit their addiction.

In social media newspeak, it is bad form to criticise anything on the internet, it upsets people's delicate emotional balance and need for safe spaces!

"Why can't everyone be nice" ? - because money is not "nice"!
Complaining about companies ripping people off is of course something only the low-lives with a limited budget will do, they're such an un-fun bunch!

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Post by Joe. » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:17 am

You're upsetting my delicate emotional balance. Cut out the racism.

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Post by Panason » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:29 am

Cut out the racism.
what?

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Post by Chopper » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:53 am

dubonaire wrote:
Chopper wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
Muzone wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:I really don't get the hate.....
It's just a part of the mob culture I think, I see it a lot online - posters just want to jump on a bandwagon for a bit of peer approval......
This is a totally bizarre conversation. Please all of you complaining about mob behaviour go back and read the full thread. This thread has been almost entirely positive. There is one post by Metasonix concerned that Moog might be threatened and one post that briefly mentioned Behringer doing more teasing than releasing and that is basically it. And that post got ridiculously labelled as "group-bullying" You guys are shadow boxing. Do you not realise you are being the so-called mob?! I'll leave it to you to fight your invisible enemy.
Again, you took my comment "group bullying" the complete wrong way, as i mostly agree with you.
No, you over reacted and a bunch of people formed a view there was some kind of mob attacking Behringer when that was not the case.
Again, no. You are jumping to conclusion. It really is not what i meant. You,'ve got the right to discard what i wrote later as an (maybe poor) explaining of what i meant, but still... Nevermind. If you read Muzone's recent posts in this thread, he expressed it better than me...

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Post by dooj88 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:38 am

Image


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Post by dubonaire » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Chopper wrote:Nevermind. If you read Muzone's recent posts in this thread, he expressed it better than me...
It didn't happen in this thread. It was a single moderately negative criticism. Aside from that, a lot of people are critical of Behringer for many reasons and they have every right to express that criticism. That's not group bullying. Group bullying is when 20 people jump on a forum user for holding a particular view, or maybe a sex offender etc where it becomes a burn the witch scenario. I agree with Muzone that mob mentality exists in social media, Facebook is the worst. But there can also be cases where many people hold a negative view for legitimate reasons.

How can you possibly bully a company like Behringer? Nonetheless, if you work for a competitor and criticise the company online Berhinger will sue the company. That is truly bullying behaviour, expressly intended to silence critics.

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Post by Chopper » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Again, you do not see my point, and why i said this. Again, maybe i used the wrong word (sarcasm translates badly, even more so online and in a different language), but i believe it isn't a good reason to assume so much about what i meant. Nevermind. The irony is that this kind of discussion is exactly what i tend to dislike and what i was refering to. Behringer is like Kanye West. Good luck dropping the name without seeing people in the room going over the top about their feelings about it. Good and bad. Whatever anybody thinks about their stuff or their ethic, my issue is the way people interact when they discuss it. I mean, i don't know what to think about the thread with the behringer poll about which company will/will not survive behringer or whatever.... I really don't know what to think about the fact that we are having a thread there about it. Aren't we going to far? Aren't we giving them too much attention, especially if we do not agree with them? Again, i am not being empirical here (or trying not to), i really just try to understand where our mind is taking us with all this...

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Post by Chopper » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:21 pm

dubonaire wrote: I'll leave it to you to fight your invisible enemy.
Funnily enough, THIS is my point. I might have worded it badly, but this is my point.... A thousand times this.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:36 pm

Chopper wrote:Again, you do not see my point, and why i said this. Again, maybe i used the wrong word (sarcasm translates badly, even more so online and in a different language), but i believe it isn't a good reason to assume so much about what i meant. Nevermind. The irony is that this kind of discussion is exactly what i tend to dislike and what i was refering to. Behringer is like Kanye West. Good luck dropping the name without seeing people in the room going over the top about their feelings about it. Good and bad. Whatever anybody thinks about their stuff or their ethic, my issue is the way people interact when they discuss it. I mean, i don't know what to think about the thread with the behringer poll about which company will/will not survive behringer or whatever.... I really don't know what to think about the fact that we are having a thread there about it. Aren't we going to far? Aren't we giving them too much attention, especially if we do not agree with them? Again, i am not being empirical here (or trying not to), i really just try to understand where our mind is taking us with all this...
Well I think the reason this thread devolved is not to do with the limited criticism but complaints about the criticism.

Look, why wouldn't Behringer be a popular topic of conversation? This is the Music Group's portfolio:

Midas
Klark Teknik
Behringer
Bugera
Eurocom
Turbosound
TC Electronic
TC-Helicon
Lake
Lab.gruppen
Tannoy
TC Applied Technologies
CoolAudio

TC Applied Technologies and Coolaudio make a bunch of chips which will be all through the synths of many vendors, and sells other branded chips as well.

The company is huge, ubiquitous and acquisitional, its cloning is almost identical and it seems to be cloning every synth ever made, it is aggressively litigious to the point of intimidation, and it is social media savvy.

It's bound to be a popular topic of conversation and it's bound to have fanboys who like the fact it's making cheap synths and detractors who don't like the way the company operates. I think that's just normal.

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Post by Chopper » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:20 am

It is indeed, i completely agree with that. But it's the fact that if we talk about a let's say TC electronics product for exemple (their cheap pedals range is brilliant by the way), then we focus on talking about the products, yet when it's about Behringer, well the discussion spirals into whatever very quickly. Again, talking about such a gargantuesque group is definitely gonna happen since their portfolio is indeed covering such a ground, but my pointt is not about if we should talk about them or not, but the dynamic of the conversations. And mentioning the fact that TC and Behringer are both under the same group is important. It emphasises my concern/interest into that weird phenomenon. The Behringer thread i saw that escaped this dynamic is the Neutron thread somehow. I wonder why. This is the phenomenon that interest me. Why in some cases and not in others. How come we react with a different dynamic with specific companies and products yet with some others the dynamic between forum members is vastly different. I find this fascinating on an anthropological level, i might say.... It is not if and what people's opinions are that i am talking about. But how they express it that i find ....weird. Hope i make sense this time... :hihi:

Edit: they've got Tannoy as well???? This went under my radar..

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Post by Panason » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:22 am

As The Ulinator came to a climax (details redacted) his eyes glowed red, his face contorted to that of a ravenous beast, and he growled with that deep pitch shifted guttural voice used in hollywood to denote evil: "MINE, ALL MINE!" :twisted:

The Ulinator Craves All.

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Post by tenembre » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:17 pm

dubonaire wrote:
a lot of people are critical of Behringer for many reasons and they have every right to express that criticism. That's not group bullying. Group bullying is when 20 people jump on a forum user for holding a particular view, or maybe a sex offender etc where it becomes a burn the witch scenario. I agree with Muzone that mob mentality exists in social media, Facebook is the worst. But there can also be cases where many people hold a negative view for legitimate reasons.
All you're really saying here is that the views that you consider legitimate are not mob mentality, and the ones you don't consider legitimate are.

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Post by dubonaire » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:16 pm

tenembre wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
a lot of people are critical of Behringer for many reasons and they have every right to express that criticism. That's not group bullying. Group bullying is when 20 people jump on a forum user for holding a particular view, or maybe a sex offender etc where it becomes a burn the witch scenario. I agree with Muzone that mob mentality exists in social media, Facebook is the worst. But there can also be cases where many people hold a negative view for legitimate reasons.
All you're really saying here is that the views that you consider legitimate are not mob mentality, and the ones you don't consider legitimate are.
If you mean criticism I think is legitmate then in some ways yes. Legitimate criticisms should be freely expressed in public and not shouted down or labelled group bullying etc, whether I agree with them or not.

If you mean views I agree with, then no. I'm not saying that at all. I don't really care if Behringer teases and doesn't release, it doesn't really bother me at all, particularly because I have no desire to buy anything it has teased. I like to discuss Behringer because I find it interesting and although there are several things about the company I don't like and I've said so, I'm not a mob-mentality hater. You will see me defend its China operations aspect in other threads.

What I see as mob mentality posting is when people join threads and don't even read the thread before jumping on the criticism bandwagon, which happened in this thread after a mildly critical post, waving mob mentality placards about that one post.

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Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:51 pm

is this out yet or not?
TOO FAR GONE

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