behringer teases...4-note poly Model-D???

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Licudi
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Post by Licudi » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:48 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:It's not a paraphonic trick per se, just the result of giving polyphony to an otherwise monophonic synth.
For anyone with a bunch of monosynths a Vermona qMI 2 or similar is a good addition.

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Post by tehyar » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:54 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
tehyar wrote:Pro 2 and Matriarch. I posted an audio example a while back, I'll dig it up. Also, Marc Doty shows it off in one of his great Pro 2 videos. Igt's an amazing trick not many peeps seem to know about.
Ok, what you're describing then is just cycling between each voice in poly mode (each oscillator being its own "voice"). Monopoly does this too as does Perfourmer., 4-voice, etc. It's not a paraphonic trick per se, just the result of giving polyphony to an otherwise monophonic synth. Any poly with a decent multitimbral mode (Xpander/M-12) could do this as well.
Huh, interesting. Out of all the poly (not mono-> paraphonic but whatever the fuck we want to call the standard "full" poly because this is getting extremely tiresome delineating it) synth I've played or own none can do it. Guess I just missed them.

The thread, in case there's still any doubt we mean the same thing:

viewtopic.php?t=212057&start=0&postdays ... highlight=

edit: note I never said it was a direct result of parapony, but that I only know of synths that are paraphonic that can do it. Gap in my knowledge it seems.

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Post by dubnspace » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:18 pm

tehyar wrote:@sduck

Interesting detail!

Personally I'm a fan of some paraphonic synths because they can do a trick that I don't know of any non-paraphonic being able to do: round robin oscs, or osc cycling. Both the Pro 2 and Matriarch can do it and it's a ton o fun.

edit: I'm curious what the poly d does, but the guy in the vid never hits anything less than max keys for the mode he's in.
the arp will cycle through the oscs in poly mode.

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tehyar
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Post by tehyar » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:18 pm

Would "fully articulated polyphonic" be sufficiently accurate to allow peeps to converse on the subject of paraphonic vs what most people consider to be specifically polyphonic? Because while I'm not typing all that out every time, I'm totally cool with calling them fap synths.

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Post by tehyar » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:19 pm

dubnspace wrote:
tehyar wrote:@sduck

Interesting detail!

Personally I'm a fan of some paraphonic synths because they can do a trick that I don't know of any non-paraphonic being able to do: round robin oscs, or osc cycling. Both the Pro 2 and Matriarch can do it and it's a ton o fun.

edit: I'm curious what the poly d does, but the guy in the vid never hits anything less than max keys for the mode he's in.
the arp will cycle through the oscs in poly mode.
Nice! that moves it up the list a couple of spaces. :sb:

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Post by GuyaGuy » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:17 pm

sduck wrote:
tehyar wrote: Has Marc Doty's head has exploded yet?
Image

...and yes, he's correct. See the comments on his post if you want to see his further explanation, particularly in regard to this poly d. It's marketing lingo, folks.

Personally, I've had no liking for any of the paraphonic synths i've used over the years. There are just too many decent alternatives.
There’s actually no consensus about what polyphony means. In composition polyphony refers to independent voices, but paraphonic synth voices are not independent because they all stop sounding once the VCA closes and one has to start before the second does.

In fact monosynths with 2 or more oscillators should be called homophonic. Regardless I’m not going to lose sleep over the debate.

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Post by EPTC » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:02 pm

So i guess they should have called it the "Para-D"

(the parody, ha)
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Post by nectarios » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:37 pm

So basically its a Minimoog on steroids for about an 8th of the price...if the 599€ rumor, turns out to be true.

Funch

Post by Funch » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:01 pm

Do you keyboard players prefer a moog keyboard or a Behringer keyboard better?

Should it be assumed the Para D keys are crap because that's that companies reputation?

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Post by SteeVtheRipper » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:05 pm

Even though I’ve basically been making my own version of this synth (Minilogue XD run into external in of my Behringer Model D) I still kinda want this thing. I know I’m bad! I haven’t purchased a B clone yet (the D was a gift). It’s just such an appealing form factor and price. I’m saving for a Matriarch, and have a Mother 32 so Moog is getting plenty of my $$, so I don’t feel so bad. Oy. Why are they doing this to meeeeeeee/us?

Truthfully it’s a (mostly) great option for people who have a real Minimoog and don’t want to bust it all up taking it out to gigs, or deal with the weight, or deal with the Model D module plus another keyboard to control it. If it had 44 keys like the original it would be a perfect substitute. Kind of a shame really that it doesn’t, especially with the parophony, you could spread that chord out even more.

Would love to see the K2 in this format.

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Post by cscairney » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:42 pm

Image
Last edited by cscairney on Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by beyourdog » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:09 pm

Well done Behringer...

That's what we were expecting with my friends from the Voyager when it came out, at least a paraphonic synth..We tried it and thought, shit, this is still a mono synth...

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Post by chaosick » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:51 pm

bliss000 wrote:Para, no sync, no ringmod and only one LFO if playing 4 note para. I can see why they added two chorus to get some movement going. Hopefuly it can round robin to get some wobbly movement or this looks like a Model D + chorus pad.

It makes me want a Dreadbox Abyss even more :guinness:
I wanted an abyss too, then I got a Vermona Perfourmer and it fulfilled those needs and then some!

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Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:46 pm

Funch wrote:Do you keyboard players prefer a moog keyboard or a Behringer keyboard better?

Should it be assumed the Para D keys are crap because that's that companies reputation?
The keyboard on the VC-340 was excellent...
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Post by toxoplasma_gondii » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:32 pm

sduck wrote:
tehyar wrote: Has Marc Doty's head has exploded yet?
Image

...and yes, he's correct. See the comments on his post if you want to see his further explanation, particularly in regard to this poly d. It's marketing lingo, folks.

Personally, I've had no liking for any of the paraphonic synths i've used over the years. There are just too many decent alternatives.
I like Marc, but honestly don't understand why he is so obsessed with this semantics argument. Everyone knows that "paraphony" refers to multiple voices without independent articulation, whereas "polyphonic synth" conventionally implies independent articulation. What reason is there for insisting that paraphonic synths are technically "polyphonic," outside of some specialized music theory discussion? It reminds me of people who, in casual conversation, will demand that you call it "orchestral music" instead of classical, even though they know exactly what you're referring to.

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Post by Illiac » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:59 am

@T Gondii Emphatically agree.

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Post by Blairio » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:11 am

tehyar wrote:@sduck

Interesting detail!

Personally I'm a fan of some paraphonic synths because they can do a trick that I don't know of any non-paraphonic being able to do: round robin oscs, or osc cycling. Both the Pro 2 and Matriarch can do it and it's a ton o fun.
The DSI employ oscillator cycling for chaining their synths.

There is nothing special about oscillator cycling, its just one of many forms of voice 'dispatching ', such as load balancing, sequential queuing, and so on.

The poor cousin of all of these methods is simple note overflow. Why Roland chose to employ note overflow for chaining their boutique synths is a mystery known only to them. Clowns.

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Post by jonne74 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:54 am

The Poly D sounds lovely.

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Post by jonne74 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:02 am

toxoplasma_gondii wrote:
I like Marc, but honestly don't understand why he is so obsessed with this semantics argument. Everyone knows that "paraphony" refers to multiple voices without independent articulation, whereas "polyphonic synth" conventionally implies independent articulation. What reason is there for insisting that paraphonic synths are technically "polyphonic," outside of some specialized music theory discussion? It reminds me of people who, in casual conversation, will demand that you call it "orchestral music" instead of classical, even though they know exactly what you're referring to.
Same with DSLRs when you say full frame. Some act dumb when they know you mean 24x36mm format.

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tehyar
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Post by tehyar » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:41 am

Blairio wrote: There is nothing special about oscillator cycling, its just one of many forms of voice 'dispatching ', such as load balancing, sequential queuing, and so on.
.
What’s special about it is what can be done with it. It’s special to me anyway. Super special wonderful funtimes.

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Post by zaphod betamax » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:50 am

I got the perFOURmer loved it, got the 14 as a controller.
Then I bought Thing #1 and Thing #2 Abyss boxes.

I heard the PolyD in a video and I enjoyed its sequenced sounds.


chaosick wrote:
bliss000 wrote:Para, no sync, no ringmod and only one LFO if playing 4 note para. I can see why they added two chorus to get some movement going. Hopefuly it can round robin to get some wobbly movement or this looks like a Model D + chorus pad.

It makes me want a Dreadbox Abyss even more :guinness:
I wanted an abyss too, then I got a Vermona Perfourmer and it fulfilled those needs and then some!

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Post by Licudi » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:10 am

If the Poly D is £699 in the UK as speculated elsewhere then Behringer is no longer competing on price. If you want a decent monosynth, it's going head to head against the Grandmother, while if you want a four-voice poly a new Minilogue costs almost half as much. Even the Minilogue XD is only £500.

I'm curious whether the Behringer Militia will still think Uli can do no wrong if his price advantage disappears? If the pricing rumours are correct then Poly D may be the first Behringer bought because people want it specifically rather than just because it's cheap.

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Post by GuyaGuy » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:48 am

Licudi wrote:If the Poly D is £699 in the UK as speculated elsewhere then Behringer is no longer competing on price. If you want a decent monosynth, it's going head to head against the Grandmother, while if you want a four-voice poly a new Minilogue costs almost half as much. Even the Minilogue XD is only £500.

I'm curious whether the Behringer Militia will still think Uli can do no wrong if his price advantage disappears? If the pricing rumours are correct then Poly D may be the first Behringer bought because people want it specifically rather than just because it's cheap.
The selling point is that it's a full keyboard Minimoog (plus extra bits) at a super low price compared to a real Moog or other clones. If someone really wants a Minimoog--which I think is their target here--the Grandmother won't do because it's missing a third audio VCO and envelope and the Minilogue XD is just, well, not Moogy.

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Post by anselmi » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:01 pm

Licudi wrote:If the Poly D is £699 in the UK as speculated elsewhere then Behringer is no longer competing on price. If you want a decent monosynth, it's going head to head against the Grandmother, while if you want a four-voice poly a new Minilogue costs almost half as much. Even the Minilogue XD is only £500.
the Poly D is a enhaced Mini clone, so why could it be compared with the Minilogues?

The Grandmother is a much closer competitor, with both plus and minus against the Poly D.

Big differences are oscillator and envelopes count, voice modes, patchpoints, keyboard, sequencer, fx, format factor

Anyway, for people that just want to play some chords with a fat Moog sound this is a good alternative to the Matriarch. Of course the Poly D can´t touch the synthesis power of it but to play some bloke chords with a brass-ish patch it´s perfect, and a lot of people just want this
Also this chorus sounds amazing on it

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Post by Maffez » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:14 pm

am i right in assuming they left out the release on the filter envelope on this one? only see a rocker switch for amp

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