Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by KSS » Sat May 30, 2020 3:39 pm

Download the original CAT manual. CAT always had a 'different' sync.

It's a CAT. Does what it wants to. You said you like felines.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by J0ris » Sat May 30, 2020 5:18 pm

The original Cat manual does mention that when using sync, VCO1 should be tuned higher than VCO2, or else there will be no sound. This makes perfect sense but does not explain the glitchy behavior, nor does it explain what sync A or B are, as there was only 1 sync type on the original.

Just wondering if this glitchy sync is really OG feline behavior.

By the way, this Cat kind of reminds me of my Sherman FB, also full of harsh unexpected noises. Sherman is more of a dogs name though.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by Hyberus » Sun May 31, 2020 1:51 am

It's based on the SRM II variant, which had two different sync modes. I have an SRM I, which only has one, and is closer to Sync B than Sync A. And is a bit glitchy, too.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by scuto » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:43 pm

Hyberus wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:51 am
It's based on the SRM II variant, which had two different sync modes. I have an SRM I, which only has one, and is closer to Sync B than Sync A. And is a bit glitchy, too.
I only have tried the SRM I version of the Octave Cat, so I don't know how the switch to ICs might have changed the sound--any insights into how the B-Cat sounds compared with your SRM I?

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by Hyberus » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:39 pm

scuto wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:43 pm
Hyberus wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:51 am
It's based on the SRM II variant, which had two different sync modes. I have an SRM I, which only has one, and is closer to Sync B than Sync A. And is a bit glitchy, too.
I only have tried the SRM I version of the Octave Cat, so I don't know how the switch to ICs might have changed the sound--any insights into how the B-Cat sounds compared with your SRM I?
Yes - I probably shouldn't put my head above the parapet, but I was a synth tester for Behringer for a while. They sound different, because the SRM I still has the discreet oscillator circuitry from the original Cat with a SSM2040 filter; whereas the SRM II had SSM2044 filter and CEM3340 VCOs.

Sitting them side by side the SRM waveforms (particularly the square wave) are less regular than the Behringer. The various modulations are pretty identical, but the filter is different.

I bought my SRM from the keyboard player in T'Pau in 1984. It was fully reconditioned by Synth Prof last year. It's not going out gigging again, but I would happily take the Behringer out in its place.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by scuto » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:04 am

Hyberus wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:39 pm
scuto wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:43 pm
Hyberus wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:51 am
It's based on the SRM II variant, which had two different sync modes. I have an SRM I, which only has one, and is closer to Sync B than Sync A. And is a bit glitchy, too.
I only have tried the SRM I version of the Octave Cat, so I don't know how the switch to ICs might have changed the sound--any insights into how the B-Cat sounds compared with your SRM I?
Yes - I probably shouldn't put my head above the parapet, but I was a synth tester for Behringer for a while. They sound different, because the SRM I still has the discreet oscillator circuitry from the original Cat with a SSM2040 filter; whereas the SRM II had SSM2044 filter and CEM3340 VCOs.

Sitting them side by side the SRM waveforms (particularly the square wave) are less regular than the Behringer. The various modulations are pretty identical, but the filter is different.

I bought my SRM from the keyboard player in T'Pau in 1984. It was fully reconditioned by Synth Prof last year. It's not going out gigging again, but I would happily take the Behringer out in its place.
Thanks for taking the time! Interesting stuff, and makes the SRM I still desirable for me.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by Hyberus » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:54 am

I still like what I can get out of the SRM after all these years. Sadly I've never had the chance to compare it to a Mk. I CAT, but I have compared it to a Kitten as a mate of mine owned one, and that was different again. In my opinion the entire range is worthwhile, and overlooked.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by J0ris » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:45 am

I've played with the B Cat some more.

The main gripe I have is the small faders. They are workable, but if they had been the size of the MC202 faders (not that much bigger), it would have made a huge difference.

Still lots of ballsy tone for your buck in a small package, but be aware that you may find it a bit flimsy for live tweaking.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by Hyberus » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:48 am

J0ris wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:45 am
I've played with the B Cat some more.

The main gripe I have is the small faders. They are workable, but if they had been the size of the MC202 faders (not that much bigger), it would have made a huge difference.

Still lots of ballsy tone for your buck in a small package, but be aware that you may find it a bit flimsy for live tweaking.
In my opinion the main one with a problem is pitchbend, and that's because (like on the original CAT) you can only use a 1 octave range. This was fiddly on my SRM, but is a real pain on the miniature clone. Luckily, if you use it under MIDI control, you can adjust the MIDI pitchbend range with the SynthTool app.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by J0ris » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:52 am

The pitchbend slider on the clone is indeed a bit of a joke. But that's not such a problem to me, as you say midi pitchbend is an alternative.

I'm talking more about the finnicky behavior close at the minimum values of sliders: it is tricky to set a value slightly over 0. Noticeable for instance at the attack and release sliders of the envelopes. And there is no workaround here.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by beatcleaver » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:13 pm

Here we go...

Starsky's got a video with the Behringer and an original (with the help of a friend).

This shows the difference in the sync behaviour. I think the Behringer is just buggy here

The pitch range on Osc B is also very different to the original, and the issues on some parts of the envelope.

I suppose it has its share of issues but still sounds pretty good in parts


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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by J0ris » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:05 pm

Well, this comparison video confirms my reservations about the sync behavior of the clone. Hard to understand how that made it to production.

The OG Cat in the video is the non-SRM version, so it is still possible that the SRM has a similarly glitchy sync. Even if so, it just does not sound good, while the sync of the non-SRM Cat sounds glorious.

Besides that, there are many other instances in the video where the OG sounds noticably better, especially when doing FM and cross modulation.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by ektoquip » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:50 pm

J0ris wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:45 am
The main gripe I have is the small faders. They are workable, but if they had been the size of the MC202 faders (not that much bigger), it would have made a huge difference.

Still lots of ballsy tone for your buck in a small package, but be aware that you may find it a bit flimsy for live tweaking.
Mediocre trivia:
Back in the day, there was kind of a marketing feud. Moog had knobs. Arp had sliders. They (marketing, sales, brochures, etc.) would flick at each other about the virtues of each. After all, nothing in this category was programmable at this time. The Oberheim OB-1 was a couple years out.
Then one day the Polymoog arrived and the Arp camp claimed it as a victory for sliders, but that didn't seem to hurt Moog at all. Although, Memorymoog and on were knobs, again.
Amid all this came the Cat with the marketing approach of "knobs where it makes sense and sliders where it makes sense." Well, sure. "The best of both worlds" and all that Wisdom of Solomon stuff.
I don't know if that human interface marketing ploy made all that much difference. I think it was just the rich sound.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:02 am

Roland had sliders and knobs from the 700 on..
Yamaha had both too. CS10 for LHC, but by the CS15 the EGs were also sliders.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by Hyberus » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:15 am

As I said before: you must compare like with like (which the video doesn't). The Behringer CAT is based on the Octave CAT SRM II, which had different VCOs and VCF to its predecessor models.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by olix » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:36 am

I love my cat, but this Cat is not for me. I wait for the Monopoly :)

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by ektoquip » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:21 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:02 am
Roland had sliders and knobs from the 700 on..
Yamaha had both too. CS10 for LHC, but by the CS15 the EGs were also sliders.
Perhaps, but these were non-players at the time.
Arp and Moog completely ruled the lead monosynth market and there was little other competition for marketshare.
No one really cared.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:59 pm

ektoquip wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:21 pm
KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:02 am
Roland had sliders and knobs from the 700 on..
Yamaha had both too. CS10 for LHC, but by the CS15 the EGs were also sliders.
Perhaps, but these were non-players at the time.
Arp and Moog completely ruled the lead monosynth market and there was little other competition for marketshare.
No one really cared.
I guess Ray told ya so?

The mid 70's which your examples reference had stores filled with other synths besides ARP and moog. I was there. It's a memory for me. Not a historical idea to be read on the net.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by thetwlo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:05 pm

the CAT with the 2040 filter is great! This is the 2044, the weakest part of the Mono/Poly.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by 3hands » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:17 pm

I think it’s incredibly cute that as soon as people decide it’s a good piece of hardware the anti capitalist people shut the fuck up. This needs to happen more.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by latrohexus » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:18 am

3hands wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:17 pm
I think it’s incredibly cute that as soon as people decide it’s a good piece of hardware the anti capitalist people shut the fuck up. This needs to happen more.
it was good hardware when someone else invented it decades ago, not sure what your point is

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by 3hands » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:47 am

latrohexus wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:18 am
3hands wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:17 pm
I think it’s incredibly cute that as soon as people decide it’s a good piece of hardware the anti capitalist people shut the fuck up. This needs to happen more.
it was good hardware when someone else invented it decades ago, not sure what your point is

It’s more an observation. A Behringer thread comes out, the usual suspects come out and attempt to dissuade people from buying it. Then people start buying it and wow! It’s not bad, especially for the price. Those naysayers then silently slip into the darkness waiting for the next thread bait. I definitely could have worded it better last night, but that’s when I noticed the pattern. And it’s in nearly every thread about Behringer. It is what it is.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by KSS » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:44 pm

@3hands
Lumping everyone into a group for your narrative does no one any good. In fact Behringer has made some good kit and some 'dogs'. They have gotten some things right and some not so right. As with any company, they have additional issues which are worth bringing up to those who may not know.

It's not fair or true to characterize all the people commenting about Behringer as "anti-capitalist". Or to imply some kind of "slip into the darkness" and "baited" behaviour for them.

The bias of each person who posts is usually easily seen and understood. Most everybody here is capable of seeing through that. Which is important because sometimes even those with a bias or poor social-language skills make valid points.

Here's an alternative to your view. Some people hold strong opinions about synths and companies. They repeatedly share these opinions when the subject of opinion is brought up. After doing so, there is little reason to continue once the people they might have -in their mind- converted to a new position have shown they are not going to change. The situation repeats when the subject of strong opinion comes up again.

There's no need to label people "anti-capitalist" or demand that those with opinions different from yours need to "shut the fuck up" "more often".

It could just as easily be said "how cute it is" that you've been "thread baited" again. And that your words should apply equally to your held opinion.

People are going to disagree. People have strong opinions different from our own. The best we can do is listen and make effort to find any signal hidden amongst the noise, and take it to heart and mind when it speaks true.

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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by 3hands » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:19 pm

KSS wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:44 pm
@3hands
Lumping everyone into a group for your narrative does no one any good. In fact Behringer has made some good kit and some 'dogs'. They have gotten some things right and some not so right. As with any company, they have additional issues which are worth bringing up to those who may not know.

It's not fair or true to characterize all the people commenting about Behringer as "anti-capitalist". Or to imply some kind of "slip into the darkness" and "baited" behaviour for them.

The bias of each person who posts is usually easily seen and understood. Most everybody here is capable of seeing through that. Which is important because sometimes even those with a bias or poor social-language skills make valid points.

Here's an alternative to your view. Some people hold strong opinions about synths and companies. They repeatedly share these opinions when the subject of opinion is brought up. After doing so, there is little reason to continue once the people they might have -in their mind- converted to a new position have shown they are not going to change. The situation repeats when the subject of strong opinion comes up again.

There's no need to label people "anti-capitalist" or demand that those with opinions different from yours need to "shut the fuck up" "more often".

It could just as easily be said "how cute it is" that you've been "thread baited" again. And that your words should apply equally to your held opinion.

People are going to disagree. People have strong opinions different from our own. The best we can do is listen and make effort to find any signal hidden amongst the noise, and take it to heart and mind when it speaks true.
I don’t disagree with any of that. However, I feel it needed to be said as that’s the narrative that people choose to post in. I also said those words could have been chosen more carefully and they weren’t, as it was raw emotion which I feel is needed sometime, don’t you? The last thing I want is my explosive emotion to fit a narrative which feels “safe” to others, especially when it’s a narrative I’m passionate about.
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Re: Behringer - Introducing the CAT Synthesizer

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:03 am

:tu:

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