Sir Ruff wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:28 pm
tenembre wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:11 pm
3hands wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:32 pm
Funch wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:20 am
3hands wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:13 pm
Oh I need to investigate this.... Behringer are finally doing what everyone wanted the original manufacturers to do, but didn’t, and suddenly they’re the bad guys? If this was 2006, people would be over the moon. People are weird...
not suddenly. That's been going on for a while, hence the reputation.
Yes,people are weird.
And I get that for sure. However, not many people wanted a Mackie 2408 clone (I remember them being close in price iirc).
But no one is making these machines except Behringer. And that’s the difference! Who’s making an all analogue 909 anymore? Or an Octave Cat with the original filter circuitry? No one. Is Octave still around? No. Has Roland even attempted to cease and desist them? No. Why? Perhaps, Roland has seen how badly they missed the target on all this. Who wants ASM, when you can have a real analogue 303? Behringer are filling a niche that seems to be very much wanted within our community. That can’t be a bad thing at all!!
Yeah I wonder about that too. There's a lot of angst about straight clones from some people...but clones are what the market wants. Complaining about clones being unoriginal is a complaint about the taste of the buyers as much as a complaint about Behringer indulging that taste. And honestly, the fetishization of classic gear is something that gear snobs themselves are responsible for. No wonder they're so upset- their own superiority game has been turned against them, and their fetishization used as a marketing tactic for gear that people not like them can afford to buy. The horror.
The argument that elitist gear snobs are against B just because their “investments” are losing value is bunk and also just sounds like jealous entitlement.
The real issue is not that they are uncreatively copying vintage synths that have no current representation, it is that they are straight-up ripping off, 1:1, designs being made by existing companies (Moog, Korg/ARP—and that’s just in the synth world). If you’re cool with that, so be it but don’t paint B as some sort of Robin Hood hero.
Yeah, I think that's a much more reasonable position. Here, in my mind, is all that needs to be said about behringer and ethics... ever:
1. Behringer are copying original designs, with a few exceptions (ie the neutron) they are direct copy and pastes.
2. Most of the time, the design of a mass-product is less important than your ability to manufacture at scale. In this regard Behringer is impressive
3. What they are doing is NOT different than the myriad clones of roland/moog/arp products that have been coming out for years, but they are much more efficient at manufacturing. Seriously, I spent an entire thread providing more examples of smaller companies doing everything B has done as the person kept changing their argument.
4. Clones almost never drive the price of vintage synths down. In fact, the opposite is often true.
5. Since we already admit that most designs are copies, what some people really have a problem with is the idea of a "crass" company like behringer copying their classics, rather than greed about the price of the Jupiters or CS-80s
6. Behringer obviously do not care about biting into the profits of smaller, more creative companies.
7. This is broadly true of any multinational corporation. (and of anything you can say about behringer)
8. It would suck to lose Moog, Korg and Roland
9. People worried about ethical spending on their synths, given the scale of the economies around them, seems to miss the forest for the trees
10. People predicted Behringer would kill the smaller eurorack companies, so far it hasn't happened. They also said the same thing about Moog.
11. Behringer has made some of the ugliest, shittiest gear in the past, and I am 99% sure this is why people hate them, more than anything else.
12. People like to externalize fundamental truths about capitalism (sorry mods, but this is literally the subtext of every behringer discussion). Maybe, rather than complaining about Behringer, we should try to understand the economic conditions that allow for business practices like that to thrive.
13. I'm sorry, but I'm never going to feel any worse about buying a minimoog clone than I am about buying any other mass consumer product--especially electronics. Everyone rips of everyone. Own a PC? HOW DARE YOU USE A DESIGN THAT WAS RIPPED OFF APPLE? Own an android device? They actually had to settle a massive lawsuit based on how much of that was ripped off!
14. These discussions are obviously political discussions, and I feel like the mods should be watching these threads more closely so we can talk about the actual product.