Sequential Pro 3

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Low Life
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by Low Life » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:16 am

anselmi wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:09 am
Low Life wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:00 am
The oscillators are digitized and can be used as (audio-rate) modulation sources for anything so that part isn't a problem. Supposedly the modulation bus runs at 48kHz.
really? where did you got this info?

If it´s true it´s easy to use tables to perform line FM since once in the digital domain data is data, and can be treated as is, no matter where it is originated. It could be some issues because of the A/D process though.

I hope they use a higher sample rate than 48 KHz.
Here's the post by cbmd (Sequential employee): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=1659
Correct, all modulation through the matrix is digitized then sent to the destination via CV. There is no direct analog path between the oscillators for FM.

I have to double check but off the top of my head the CVs run at 16bit/48khz.

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anselmi
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by anselmi » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:06 am

Low Life wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:16 am
anselmi wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:09 am
Low Life wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:00 am
The oscillators are digitized and can be used as (audio-rate) modulation sources for anything so that part isn't a problem. Supposedly the modulation bus runs at 48kHz.
really? where did you got this info?

If it´s true it´s easy to use tables to perform line FM since once in the digital domain data is data, and can be treated as is, no matter where it is originated. It could be some issues because of the A/D process though.

I hope they use a higher sample rate than 48 KHz.
Here's the post by cbmd (Sequential employee): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=1659
Correct, all modulation through the matrix is digitized then sent to the destination via CV. There is no direct analog path between the oscillators for FM.

I have to double check but off the top of my head the CVs run at 16bit/48khz.
oh, God...in my sub-37 this sounds like shit...they used the same scheme (without the oscillators as mod sources) with both the CV inputs and LFOs (I think they´re digital though). In the Sub-37 it sounds harsh and far from what you get with direct analog FM...a shame. I know this way is very easy to have audio rate modulation of any parameter with a digital routing matrix but I´d really prefer some analog paths even with less destinations. Maybe in the Pro-3 it´s implemented in a better way. I´d like to hear some examples

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goldplate
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by goldplate » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:30 am

Shame !

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pix
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by pix » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:05 am

Pro2 + Haible Living osc is where its at imo! Pro 3 should have had next gen digital oscs instead (think 4 osc version of shapeshifter or something like that)

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GuyaGuy
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by GuyaGuy » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:11 pm

anselmi wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:06 am


oh, God...in my sub-37 this sounds like shit...they used the same scheme (without the oscillators as mod sources) with both the CV inputs and LFOs (I think they´re digital though). In the Sub-37 it sounds harsh and far from what you get with direct analog FM...a shame. I know this way is very easy to have audio rate modulation of any parameter with a digital routing matrix but I´d really prefer some analog paths even with less destinations. Maybe in the Pro-3 it´s implemented in a better way. I´d like to hear some examples
Not sure what the implementation was in the Moog but from the same thread:
cbmd;14511046 wrote:Yes, the modulation CVs run twice as fast as Pro 2/Prophet 12.

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nostalghia
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by nostalghia » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:34 pm

Got message that mine (regular non-SE version) is on the way, should arrive this weekend. Pre-ordered from a US dealer (not Sweetwater, discovered that they charge tax on online orders now, don't recall if they did in the past). So looks like first batch may have shipped, but may have just been enough to fill pre-orders, maybe a few extra-site I ordered from shows "arriving soon" status now.

This will be the first keyboard synth (apart from a used Monologue, currently on loan to a friend) I've bought in at least 5 years, been focusing on Eurorack modules when I had spare $ for music gear. Even though the various demos on YT varied in quality, I could tell the Pro 3 has a ton of potential for creating the type of sounds I want in a monosynth (70s era Berlin school stuff, prog & funk leads, ambient melody line stuff, etc). What really tipped it to a purchase was the speed and ease of operation, especially the sequencer and mod matrix. Sequencer can do ratcheting, record parameter tweaks on separate tracks, record/edit velocity, output CV/gate to my modular-ideal. And reading the manual on the Sequential site (a refreshingly clear and complete one, I'm a tech writer myself), apparently you can even scale the CV output if pitch scaling/tracking of your external VCO module across several octaves doesn't match the Pro 3!

So very appealing as a modular controller even apart from the great (IMO from what I've heard so far) internal sound engine. I like the 2 analog+1 wavetable osc configuration-I often mix a pinch of E352 (wavetable VCO) in with several analog VCO waveforms when working on my modular to add some sparkle or a different, less traditional timbre. Modulate the wavetable to add some evolving movement. Basic FM appears to be simple to set up in the mod matrix, although it's not linear FM, much less through-zero. I have an SSF ZPO and an FM Aid in my modular for that, along with a Nord G2 Modular kybd. And with a 3-octave keyboard, it's small enough to fit in the space I have in mind for it (already have a primary MIDI keyboard with 5 octave range for "piano" and other serious poly playing).

Final thoughts re sound/features: I owned mono synths including a Moog Source, Korg Mono-Poly and MS-20 (and played a Pro 1 in a session) back in the 80s, and they were great, but sometimes the whole "vintage" thing is a bit overstated-I have little doubt I can get the Pro 3 to sound at least as good with some time spent programming and exploring, and then there's the whole reliability/parts issue. For that matter, I have a few excellent software synths like the Synapse Legend (minimoog), Gforce Oddity 2 (Odyssey) and Arturia Moog Modular that are so good (key is using a high quality audio interface IMO) that non-synth geeks would be unlikely to hear any significant difference (but hardware will always be more fun and immediate, no CPU load, OS update issues, etc.). Oh yeah-think all the Pro 3 knobs output MIDI CCs, so will also be fun to map them to corresponding parameters in those VSTs!

Anyway, I'm excited and can't wait to set it up in my little studio and dive in-will be an early 65th birthday present to myself (hopefully will be able to pay myself back in next few months from tax refund and/or annual bonus from employer). Pardon the long post, just wanted to share my take on this cool new puppy.
“If you look for a meaning, you'll miss everything that happens.” - Andrei Tarkovsky

Kja
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by Kja » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 am

anselmi wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:06 am
Low Life wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:16 am
anselmi wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:09 am
Low Life wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:00 am
The oscillators are digitized and can be used as (audio-rate) modulation sources for anything so that part isn't a problem. Supposedly the modulation bus runs at 48kHz.
really? where did you got this info?

If it´s true it´s easy to use tables to perform line FM since once in the digital domain data is data, and can be treated as is, no matter where it is originated. It could be some issues because of the A/D process though.

I hope they use a higher sample rate than 48 KHz.
Here's the post by cbmd (Sequential employee): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=1659
Correct, all modulation through the matrix is digitized then sent to the destination via CV. There is no direct analog path between the oscillators for FM.

I have to double check but off the top of my head the CVs run at 16bit/48khz.
oh, God...in my sub-37 this sounds like shit...they used the same scheme (without the oscillators as mod sources) with both the CV inputs and LFOs (I think they´re digital though). In the Sub-37 it sounds harsh and far from what you get with direct analog FM...a shame. I know this way is very easy to have audio rate modulation of any parameter with a digital routing matrix but I´d really prefer some analog paths even with less destinations. Maybe in the Pro-3 it´s implemented in a better way. I´d like to hear some examples
Prefer analog paths with less destinations? You mean like the prophet 6? That synth that has real fm, as well as real CV flying all threw it at any given time but people have absolutely tore it apart because of its "simple" modulation abilities? You have to see the hypocrisy in this right? They just can't make people happy unless they make something so overtly complicated and expensive that nobody buys it.

But your right, the fm on this didn't sound as good.. but modulating a oscillator with the wavetables is this synths claim to fame and sounds incredible... Much more interesting then traditional analog fm like on a prophet 6. They couldn't put everything in there at this price point and they don't want this to have everything then we wouldn't need the other sequential synths.

Kja
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by Kja » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:58 am

Pro 2 has traditional fm like what your looking for btw.

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Voltcontrol
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by Voltcontrol » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:08 am

nostalghia wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:34 pm
Got message that mine (regular non-SE version) is on the way, should arrive this weekend. Pre-ordered from a US dealer (not Sweetwater, discovered that they charge tax on online orders now, don't recall if they did in the past). So looks like first batch may have shipped, but may have just been enough to fill pre-orders, maybe a few extra-site I ordered from shows "arriving soon" status now.

This will be the first keyboard synth (apart from a used Monologue, currently on loan to a friend) I've bought in at least 5 years, been focusing on Eurorack modules when I had spare $ for music gear. Even though the various demos on YT varied in quality, I could tell the Pro 3 has a ton of potential for creating the type of sounds I want in a monosynth (70s era Berlin school stuff, prog & funk leads, ambient melody line stuff, etc). What really tipped it to a purchase was the speed and ease of operation, especially the sequencer and mod matrix. Sequencer can do ratcheting, record parameter tweaks on separate tracks, record/edit velocity, output CV/gate to my modular-ideal. And reading the manual on the Sequential site (a refreshingly clear and complete one, I'm a tech writer myself), apparently you can even scale the CV output if pitch scaling/tracking of your external VCO module across several octaves doesn't match the Pro 3!

So very appealing as a modular controller even apart from the great (IMO from what I've heard so far) internal sound engine. I like the 2 analog+1 wavetable osc configuration-I often mix a pinch of E352 (wavetable VCO) in with several analog VCO waveforms when working on my modular to add some sparkle or a different, less traditional timbre. Modulate the wavetable to add some evolving movement. Basic FM appears to be simple to set up in the mod matrix, although it's not linear FM, much less through-zero. I have an SSF ZPO and an FM Aid in my modular for that, along with a Nord G2 Modular kybd. And with a 3-octave keyboard, it's small enough to fit in the space I have in mind for it (already have a primary MIDI keyboard with 5 octave range for "piano" and other serious poly playing).

Final thoughts re sound/features: I owned mono synths including a Moog Source, Korg Mono-Poly and MS-20 (and played a Pro 1 in a session) back in the 80s, and they were great, but sometimes the whole "vintage" thing is a bit overstated-I have little doubt I can get the Pro 3 to sound at least as good with some time spent programming and exploring, and then there's the whole reliability/parts issue. For that matter, I have a few excellent software synths like the Synapse Legend (minimoog), Gforce Oddity 2 (Odyssey) and Arturia Moog Modular that are so good (key is using a high quality audio interface IMO) that non-synth geeks would be unlikely to hear any significant difference (but hardware will always be more fun and immediate, no CPU load, OS update issues, etc.). Oh yeah-think all the Pro 3 knobs output MIDI CCs, so will also be fun to map them to corresponding parameters in those VSTs!

Anyway, I'm excited and can't wait to set it up in my little studio and dive in-will be an early 65th birthday present to myself (hopefully will be able to pay myself back in next few months from tax refund and/or annual bonus from employer). Pardon the long post, just wanted to share my take on this cool new puppy.
Good take on the synth and you are getting yourself one awesome 65th birthday present Sir! My father <of similar age> got himself some new stuff for his caravan this year.

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anselmi
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Re: Sequential Pro 3

Post by anselmi » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:27 pm

Kja wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 am
Prefer analog paths with less destinations? You mean like the prophet 6? That synth that has real fm, as well as real CV flying all threw it at any given time but people have absolutely tore it apart because of its "simple" modulation abilities? You have to see the hypocrisy in this right? They just can't make people happy unless they make something so overtly complicated and expensive that nobody buys it.
yes, you are right...people always complain, but I do like the P6 simple matrix and I think it´s a good way to cover a lot of sonic territory in a very easy and direct way, and with a huge sweet spot too

See, I owned a Slim Phatty and it have OSC2 as a mod source in its (VERY) simple mod matrix. I got really lovely sounds using this, but when the Sub-37 appears I thought that it will be an amazing synth, with more of everything the Phatty line have, plus a better panel, 2 LFOs, sub-oscillator, etc. But I sadly found that they changed all the mod routing to digital and it doesn´t sound as good as in the Phattys. I think they could keep 2 or 3 analog modulation routings along with the digital ones, like OSC-2 to OSC-1 freq mod, to OSC-1 wave mod, and to VCF freq mod. Maybe to the VCA too. This would be awesome. When the M32 was released I jumped on it just to have analog modulation and get the kind of sounds that I got with my old Phatty.
Kja wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 am
But your right, the fm on this didn't sound as good.. but modulating a oscillator with the wavetables is this synths claim to fame and sounds incredible... Much more interesting then traditional analog fm like on a prophet 6. They couldn't put everything in there at this price point and they don't want this to have everything then we wouldn't need the other sequential synths.
I think the same hybrid approach that I described above could be a good solution and I don´t think it´s asking for too much
Anyway, they said that the mod matrix works at higher rate than the Pro-2, so maybe it sounds better. I don´t know the Sui-37 digital mod specs though

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