Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by p_shoulder » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am

StillNotWorking wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:20 am
As I see it CDM article is very much targeting towards those who tries to make a living from making music. For young lower middle class kids dreaming to be famous musician and still in 'me first modus ' not so much.
:foul:

Most of the"big names" in music I believe are mostly or all software and have been in the last couple of decades or so. The Sounds Of The Decade are Massive and Serum and whatnot, sequenced by FL Studio or Ableton, or maybe Omnisphere in Logic for the film score guys. (OK, so Behringer's cloned an 808, that's pretty big sound in hip hop these days, now can Behringer's sequencer do that "trap cymbal roll" that's popular in hip hop, and also easiest done in something like FL-Studio where you just mash a bunch of 1/32nd notes together in the piano roll? Probably not as easily at all. :hihi: ) Those that can't afford the software ride the piracy wave (we've also seen some DJs that *can* afford the software ride the piracy wave too. :bang: )

Behringer is riding nostalgia and while placing a nice solid dent on overinflated vintage collector markets is in my opinion a good thing, don't pretend that Behringer is aiming for the DJ or hip hop markets that dominate US and European charts. They are aiming for the middle age folks who remember when acid dominated the charts like 20 to 25 years ago and TB-303s were outrageous prices. Maybe picking up a few indie hipsters here and there, the crowd that were using Microkorg and Moog Little Phattys live a decade ago, and other genres (eg some of the chillwave stuff or 1980s nostalgic) that loved the old analog synth sound. Those actually making chart music are too busy pitch-shifting vocal samples in their DAW to care about this TBH.

CDM seems to be just Peter Kirn's blog and he's written multiple articles about Behringer -- *not all of them unfavorable*. It is not surprising that the Behinger OverPuffery Mob online (which, if I were to truly start a conspiracy theory, I would question some of them on what their salary at Behringer is) is trying to turn the stupid shitty trolling Uli's company did into some tribal class warfare bullshit for some reason.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by stimresp » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:58 am

KSS wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:53 am
StillNotWorking wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:54 am
BTW, whats up with the non polyphonic Poly D? (dang that missleading name seem to bother me.
Polytonic is just as valid as polyphonic. Or even simply poly by itself meaning many. Many D's is a perfectly appropriate name.

Since the PolyD is what we've come to understand as Paraphonic, quite a number have posted that Behringer call it the PolyD to avoid the deprecating humor of calling it a ParaD.

I'm as dismayed as the others who've posted about the company's recent bullying, but we don't have to find problems where they don't really live.

PolyD doesn't require a jump to assumption of polyphonic.
Indeed, but the packaging says '4 voice polyphonic' which IMO is misleading.

Anyway, my ambivalence over Behringer is washed away. I was close to giving-in to a 2600 and a RD9, but now I'll avoid.

I see a real nastiness lurking behind the Kirin 'joke'. Uli should be ashamed of himself, but somehow I dont think he has enough self awareness. Bullies rarely do.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by evs » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:22 am

nodog wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:40 am
Rafaelxyz wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:27 am
It's suprising to me how much people get offended about these events. From being a bit of a boring company behringer has now awekened my interest. Might just get a behringer 2600.
It's suprising to me how much people think this is totally acceptable behaviour and will, sometimes even due to this behaviour buy stuff from them.

Epic trolling seems the thing to strife for and decency something to laugh about. This is happening all over. We're all fucked.
yes. same reason why people vote for trump and the likes... we are indeed fucked.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by kons » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:24 am

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by evs » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:12 pm

sorry for bringing politics into this, its muffs politics to not do this, forgot about it..
sure its not the same, its similar but on a totally different level...
but i have to say, he is hurting real people too, although its just one in this case..

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by ObsoleteModular » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:10 pm

OMG I've just caught up with the whole Peter Kirn thing. I have one thing to say:

How utterly pathetic, what an embarassment Uli Behringer is

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Licudi » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:35 pm

Sonictalk 609 now carries the advisory:
Comments have been set to Youtube holding "potentially inappropriate for review"after the level of hatred displayed which resulted them in being temporarily switched off.
Behringer. Brings out the best in people.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by dubonaire » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:17 am

Muzone wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:41 am
dubonaire wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:10 am
.... I seem to belong to some archaic group of people
Everyone's viewpoint eventually becomes irrelevant, or at least purely introspective (unless they move with the times) - then it's just another old person howlin' at the moon :lol:
Muzone you've been sniping at me for years, you think I care one iota what you think? Think again. The "times" are currently at companies and CEOs acting responsibly, not acting like juveniles. The people who need to get with the times are the :omg:

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:23 am

StillNotWorking wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:46 am
While this might be correct, and I didn't have any deep thoughts on the matter until I saw Starsky Carr unboxing video. Printing on the shipping box says
Poly D Analog 4-Voice Polyphonic Synthesizer with...
At least to me that imply something different than what comes out of the box.
Edit: It also says Polyphonic on the product page.
stimresp wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:58 am
Indeed, but the packaging says '4 voice polyphonic' which IMO is misleading.
Thank you both for additional info. Definitely changes things. From possible misunderstanding to directly misleading false advertising. Probably actionable. edit: added stimsrep reply

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:20 am

I'm puzzled that so many don't care more about these changes. When this bullying and disrespect for others becomes standards for business and customer handling it will affect everything down to simple QC of products. When the boss set the standards employee are expected to follow right? Strange thing with B are that even customers seem to team up.

There are a property developer in US that is infamous for scheming small contractors. When brought to court and asked as to why he did it he answer where in lines of "I felt like it".

My guess most B customer are in the category working for these small contractors so why do they support the bulley? I don't get that aspect of this. I get it they buy synthesizers and other low cost gear, but not that they raise their voice to defend bad behavior.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Arneb » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:50 am

StillNotWorking wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:20 am
I'm puzzled that so many don't care more about these changes. When this bullying and disrespect for others becomes standards for business and customer handling it will affect everything down to simple QC of products. When the boss set the standards employee are expected to follow right? Strange thing with B are that even customers seem to team up.

There are a property developer in US that is infamous for scheming small contractors. When brought to court and asked as to why he did it he answer where in lines of "I felt like it".

My guess most B customer are in the category working for these small contractors so why do they support the bulley? I don't get that aspect of this. I get it they buy synthesizers and other low cost gear, but not that they raise their voice to defend bad behavior.
While I've been clear here that I don't condone Behringer harassing a random journo, I can definitely understand why their customers act like this. Before this whole harassment thing started, we had the anti-Behringer side publicly shaming Behringer's customers all over the synthosphere for buying cheap cloned gear. Public shaming leads to tribalism, and in that sense the damage to the discourse was already done before Behringer decided to harass Kirn.

(Though I guess naming his company "Music Tribe" is Uli's fault.)

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Christopher Winkels » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:56 am

My greatest regret from this fiasco is that the term "corksniffer", a put down beloved by me and several of my friends, now carries a taint attached to it.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by papz » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:00 am

In case this wasn't posted before...

Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Skilling » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:10 am

StillNotWorking wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:20 am
[...]why do they support the bulley? I don't get that aspect of this. I get it they buy synthesizers and other low cost gear, but not that they raise their voice to defend bad behavior.
Because the ones who are impressed by Behringer's bullying are the same kind of (mainly) boys/men that you'll find on certain places on the internet. To them the Kirn video is a language they understand. I really think Uli knows exactly what he is doing.

It's not a coincidence that his fanboys calling their opponents "snowflakes" and makes fun of people who are offended by this (even if they aren't). For those people, calling someone "snowflake" means that you won. You don't need an argument, just ridicule your opponent. Post a laughing smiley or a frog and you're good.

I'm so tired of this shit. There really are no decent reason to defend the actions of Behringer.

(Of course there are people who bought Behringer products that don't act like this and that don't appreciate the bullying at all. I'd like to believe they are the vast majority even if they aren't as loud as the supporters of the harrassing).

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by kcearl » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:20 am

Skilling wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:10 am
StillNotWorking wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:20 am
[...]why do they support the bulley? I don't get that aspect of this. I get it they buy synthesizers and other low cost gear, but not that they raise their voice to defend bad behavior.
Because the ones who are impressed by Behringer's bullying are the same kind of (mainly) boys/men that you'll find on certain places on the internet. To them the Kirn video is a language they understand. I really think Uli knows exactly what he is doing.

It's not a coincidence that his fanboys calling their opponents "snowflakes" and makes fun of people who are offended by this (even if they aren't). For those people, calling someone "snowflake" means that you won. You don't need an argument, just ridicule your opponent. Post a laughing smiley or a frog and you're good.

I'm so tired of this shit. There really are no decent reason to defend the actions of Behringer.

(Of course there are people who bought Behringer products that don't act like this and that don't appreciate the bullying at all. I'd like to believe they are the vast majority even if they aren't as loud as the supporters of the harrassing).
And those on the "other" side, the "haters" that call everyone fanboys as soon as they say anything positive about the synths, call them sheep, twats...constantly synth shame. Accuse owners of being paid shills. Constantly misrepresent facts and try to bully people with ethics while posting from their ipads, wearing nikes that they bought on Amazon. I see them just as much as the "fanboys" ;)

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by strettara » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:24 am

You're both (last two posters) right. How inconvenient.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Zymos » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:43 am

kcearl wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:04 am
Well everyone should remember their ethics when the Behringer P800 drops soon...doesnt look too far off. I generally cleanse my soul by buying something from the “small guys” at the same time but Im having that prophet clone. And therein lies the problem
“everyone” doesn’t just drop their principles whenever a cheap synth is released....

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Fallen_lassen » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:14 am

Wtf. Is gearshitz down? Why all this behr nonsense. Mods!

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:41 am

kcearl wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:20 am
Skilling wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:10 am
StillNotWorking wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:20 am
[...]why do they support the bulley? I don't get that aspect of this. I get it they buy synthesizers and other low cost gear, but not that they raise their voice to defend bad behavior.
Because the ones who are impressed by Behringer's bullying are the same kind of (mainly) boys/men that you'll find on certain places on the internet. To them the Kirn video is a language they understand. I really think Uli knows exactly what he is doing.

It's not a coincidence that his fanboys calling their opponents "snowflakes" and makes fun of people who are offended by this (even if they aren't). For those people, calling someone "snowflake" means that you won. You don't need an argument, just ridicule your opponent. Post a laughing smiley or a frog and you're good.

I'm so tired of this shit. There really are no decent reason to defend the actions of Behringer.

(Of course there are people who bought Behringer products that don't act like this and that don't appreciate the bullying at all. I'd like to believe they are the vast majority even if they aren't as loud as the supporters of the harrassing).
And those on the "other" side, the "haters" that call everyone fanboys as soon as they say anything positive about the synths, call them sheep, twats...constantly synth shame. Accuse owners of being paid shills. Constantly misrepresent facts and try to bully people with ethics while posting from their ipads, wearing nikes that they bought on Amazon. I see them just as much as the "fanboys" ;)
I get that people get angry with those terms. Also this thread rarely critic people buying the stuff I think, — but rather the form dicussion take place.

Also discussion creating heat past weeks are a direct result of Mr. Behringer bullying. Not an attack on persons enjoying his products. One need to different what's discussed or one find oneself on the wrong side of ones own beliefs.

The nature of a bulley is he will only take notice of you as long as you are of some use for him, then he get down on you to — not in the good way. :hyper:
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by stimresp » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:12 am

Some people always want to have the last word on every topic. It's a manifestation of deep-seated insecurity.

I haven't seen any instances of 'shaming' for buying Behringer products. If an annonymous internet poster perceives such shame then they really should seek professional help.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by htor » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:15 pm

to b or not to b – that's the question

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Be Sandy? » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:32 pm

If I lock this thread understand that there will be nowhere on this forum to discuss the issues it was created for.
Turning every Behringer thread into this one will not be tolerated and we'll have to delete any comments around this topic in them.
That's really more heavy handed in terms of moderation than I think is ideal.

This thread isn't a place to come and fight with people because it's fun or a drama.
Anyone whose pretty much sole contribution to the forum is to post in this thread is quite likely to find themselves temporarily banned so they can reconsider their participation here.

It's up to all of you.

I'd rather it stayed open and you could discuss the issues in an amicable manner, even if you don't always agree with other opinions expressed. But, if it's just going to turn into people bitching at each other and making snide remarks as the last couple of pages seem to be, then it's gone.

I will leave it until the morning to see how all of you have decided to act.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:41 pm

Be Sandy? wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:32 pm
If I lock this thread understand that there will be nowhere on this forum to discuss the issues it was created for.
Sadly I feel that is the soul purpose from at least one of contributors for the last three pages.
Would it better to ban users so this shit doesn't become the standard tool for corporations to silent critic?
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by luketeaford » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:47 pm

I don't follow this thread but it's like 95% of the reports and the namecalling/personal insults are really getting out of hand.

When people insult each other back and forth it makes deleting the posts very difficult because of all the quotations. I'm going to ban anyone who is reported for namecalling etc in this thread for a few days so we don't have to lock it (which is unfair to the people discussing it).

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:59 pm

luketeaford wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:47 pm
I don't follow this thread but it's like 95% of the reports and the namecalling/personal insults are really getting out of hand.

When people insult each other back and forth it makes deleting the posts very difficult because of all the quotations. I'm going to ban anyone who is reported for namecalling etc in this thread for a few days so we don't have to lock it (which is unfair to the people discussing it).
I agree. I’m fine with some bantering between users I may not agree with but respect. A lot of these personal insults seem to be people coming over from Gearslutz where most of the threads degenerate into this sort of thing. Keep it open, as it’s serving it’s purpose. Keeping the people who are only in this thread, in this thread.
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