Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

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jingo
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by jingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:48 am

Hey folks, no need to sharpen the knives, just vote with your wallet... This is how capitalism works...

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by papz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:08 pm

Want some more "demonizing" ? :twisted:

https://audionewsroom.net/2020/09/behri ... emark.html
Behringer Files For Oberheim’s Trademark
Fab | September 25, 2020 | news | No Comments

As reported on the United States Patent and Trademark Office’s official website, Music Tribe (the holding created by Uli Behringer) has recently applied for the BEHRINGER OBERHEIM trademark.
The application, filed on August 18, 2020, contains also a placeholder logo, shown below:

Image

The Music Tribe website has already added Oberheim’s original logo to the group’s brands, as you can see in this screenshot:

Image

This is the latest chapter of the complicated story surrounding the Oberheim trademark. After the original company filed for bankruptcy, the name has been owned by Gibson since 1988 (and later licensed to Viscount, an Italian brand).
Last year, Gibson announced they would return the Oberheim brand and trademark back to its creator, Tom Oberheim, as a gesture of goodwill.

Behringer’s move is not really surprising. In the last couple of years, the company has been working on its Oberheim OB-Xa clone, called UB-Xa (shown in the video below).

We can only assume the trademark application (which generally takes a few months) is the last step before seeing the iconic Oberheim name appearing on the first Behringer-made synthesizer.So far, Tom Oberheim hasn’t released any public statement on the matter.
We’re certainly not lawyers or trademark experts but we doubt he will try to ‘fight back’. The trademark hasn’t been in use for several years now, and Music Tribe is entitled to apply for it.
That said, we think it would be a nice gesture of goodwill if Music Tribe would compensate Tom Oberheim in some ways. Wishful thinking?

The trademark application can be found here.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:21 pm

Jesus this guy is unstoppable. I’m happy with my TD3. I’m not sure I want anything else.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Orange » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:47 pm

I hope Tom Oberheim is ok with this (I doubt that). If he is not, than it is not ok.
copy and pasting ‘very old’ designs....ok, but put someone’s name on that is not the way....

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Muff McMuff » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:44 pm

Probably bought the name or use of the name from whoever owns it. That would be the normal business way.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:43 am

papz wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:08 pm
Want some more "demonizing" ? :twisted:

https://audionewsroom.net/2020/09/behri ... emark.html
Behringer Files For Oberheim’s Trademark
Fab | September 25, 2020 | news | No Comments

As reported on the United States Patent and Trademark Office’s official website, Music Tribe (the holding created by Uli Behringer) has recently applied for the BEHRINGER OBERHEIM trademark.
The application, filed on August 18, 2020, contains also a placeholder logo, shown below:

Image

The Music Tribe website has already added Oberheim’s original logo to the group’s brands, as you can see in this screenshot:

Image

This is the latest chapter of the complicated story surrounding the Oberheim trademark. After the original company filed for bankruptcy, the name has been owned by Gibson since 1988 (and later licensed to Viscount, an Italian brand).
Last year, Gibson announced they would return the Oberheim brand and trademark back to its creator, Tom Oberheim, as a gesture of goodwill.

Behringer’s move is not really surprising. In the last couple of years, the company has been working on its Oberheim OB-Xa clone, called UB-Xa (shown in the video below).

We can only assume the trademark application (which generally takes a few months) is the last step before seeing the iconic Oberheim name appearing on the first Behringer-made synthesizer.So far, Tom Oberheim hasn’t released any public statement on the matter.
We’re certainly not lawyers or trademark experts but we doubt he will try to ‘fight back’. The trademark hasn’t been in use for several years now, and Music Tribe is entitled to apply for it.
That said, we think it would be a nice gesture of goodwill if Music Tribe would compensate Tom Oberheim in some ways. Wishful thinking?

The trademark application can be found here.
Holy Fuck. Some next level trolling from Uli himself. Not sure if impressed or disgusted.

The thing I really wonder: Will he give the name back to Tom, like Yamaha (iirc) gave Sequential back to Dave Smith. That would legitimize Music Tribe even further (in a perverse way?).
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by steffengrondahl » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:32 am

This is strange. It it just a year since it was announced Gibson (who owned the trademark from mid-eighties to 2019) return it to Tom Oberheim :hmm:

https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/gibson-returns-tom-oberheim-trademark/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberheim_Electronics

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Lux A Turner » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:33 am

If you register a trademark, but then fail to take at least *some* steps to protect it from misuse and infringement, then it can make it harder to defend the mark if you eventually choose to do so.

That's not to say you'll automatically lose your IP rights and you don't have to ruthlessly prosecute every, single infringer / instance of misuse; but it certainly doesn't hurt to send the odd cease and desist letter, or to do sweeps of (say) Etsy from time to time and issue take-downs for listings which use your trademark in their tags / descriptions, to sell unauthorised clones.


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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Arneb » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:04 am

steffengrondahl wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:32 am
This is strange. It it just a year since it was announced Gibson (who owned the trademark from mid-eighties to 2019) return it to Tom Oberheim :hmm:

https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/gibson-returns-tom-oberheim-trademark/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberheim_Electronics
A couple months later Behringer won a ruling from some German court which said that, under EU law, the trademark was already expired before Gibson returned it, i.e. that there was nothing left to return to Tom. Basically, Gibson hogging the trademark for decades without actually doing something with it does not justify a trademark claim, and also Gibson's argument that they had recently licensed the trademark to Arturia for a VST was dismissed because hardware synths are not in the same trademark class as software synths. Which, I suppose, implies that Tom Oberheim owns the right to release a softsynth under the Oberheim trademark.

Since that ruling was already in the making since before Gibson made a show of returning the trademark to Tom, a cynical perspective would be that Gibson's actions had nothing to do with respect for an old man's life work and everything to do with poisoning the well for Behringer and using Tom as their unwitting pawn.

However, that German ruling can't really have any bearing on papz' post because it's about EU trademark law and the quoted trademark filing is an US one :hmm:

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by papz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:21 am

Behringer filed for Oberheim in EU in 2016 and modified the registration in August 2020 https://data.inpi.fr/marques/EM016150724#EM016150724
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by steffengrondahl » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:40 am

Thanks for the info Arneb :tu:

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Kattefjaes » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:44 am

3hands wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:21 pm
Jesus this guy is unstoppable. I’m happy with my TD3. I’m not sure I want anything else.
He is a horror show. Sadly, I am pretty sure I want the 606 clone to go with my TD-3 and will probably buy one, despite that. There's space in the TD-3's padded bag and a channel free on the pedal power supply, what can I do?

Clearly I am of negotiable virtue :omg:

That said, generally I still feel grubby going down the b-boi rabbit hole. If ever I'm tempted, I just need to think back to how crappy the Neutron was when I had one to play with, it's like a cold shower.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by READYdot » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:03 am

Until now I haven’t bought any Behringer products other than some cheap studio rack gear for minor tasks. I do find most of the things they do extremely boring and helluva unsexy... I really don’t see any danger from Behringer other than deliver cheap ass products to home studio musicians that can’t afford anything else. And the responsibility for how well these companies fare is with the consumer. We are feeding the beast, it’s not about quality or ethics, its a simple thing of consumer consciousness, do I want to buy that Behringer module or do I prefer to buy that other cheap product by Dreadbox, Doepfer or go the tTangible Waves route... its all about us, and if we do feed the beast, well it’s also our responsibility to deal with the consequences. So don’t buy from the big companies, but from the small ones... easy peasy...

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by fishheads » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:14 am

Haha has no one really blasted down the whole "vote with your wallet", "demand creates supply" myth? :omg:

Hint: does walmart carry 365 different colors of chemically-flavored dyed corn flakes all manufactured by the same company because the consumers demanded it?

Hint #2: did the island of plastic in the ocean disappear after all those hippies "voted with their wallets" by using metal straws?

:oops:

Edited for political posting. JOE

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by READYdot » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:00 pm

fishheads wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:14 am
Hint: does walmart carry 365 different colors of chemically-flavored dyed corn flakes all manufactured by the same company because the consumers demanded it?
Exactly my point, someone buys it, supply creates demand, as they say... or was it demand creates supply... :slapfight:

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:44 pm

fishheads wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:14 am
Hint: does walmart carry 365 different colors of chemically-flavored dyed corn flakes all manufactured by the same company because the consumers demanded it?
No.But we *do* have 365 different VCOs from many mfrs "because the consumers demanded it."
And we *do* have many different suppliers of corn flakes. Again, "because the consumers demanded it."
Or, if you're arguing, say it's because the mfrs saw the potential for consumers to embrace it. But that's just two sides of the same coin. Strike one false claim.
Hint #2: did the island of plastic in the ocean disappear after all those hippies "voted with their wallets" by using metal straws?
That's an incredibly lousy example.
The island of plastic has been growing for a hundred years. Metal straws have been a minority choice for how long? Plastic straws make up how much of the plastic island in the ocean? Strike two false claims.

Two hints, two strikes. You're 0-2. Care to try again?

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:58 pm

I have to say thats pretty cringeworthy, even for behringer. im not against them creating clones of long gone units but i would’ve liked to have seen them create their own visual identity for their clones.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:57 pm

:agree:
They could even have gone with something like UBie, as a thin reference to what we often called OBies.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by SynthBaron » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:03 pm

Does anyone know what Behringer is actually doing, besides mere speculation? It seems likely that they could have bought Tom's IP assets for his recently discontinued stuff:

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php?topic=3168.0

"Long story short. Tom Oberheim has become so back ordered they had to cease production and cancel a lot of orders submitted. Tom was inspecting every single unit that went out and at over 80 years of age, it's just not feasible for him to do anymore. I was trying to contact them for 9 months in regards to my order for a Two Voice Pro that I had placed and then they said they aren't taking anymore orders and cancelled mine. Unfortunately, they also didn't notify their customers publicly (and apparently still haven't ) and a lot of their distributors weren't even aware of the situation until some customers complained.

I do hope we will see someone help Tom out, stuff like the Two Voice Pro and even the SonOf4Voice are too great to let just slip away. I don't think they've transferred it over to Sequential. Unless Sequential is going to replace their modular stuff with exclusively Oberheim SEM based stuff but I can't see Sequential being large enough to offer both their own gear and Tom's."

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:32 am

9DB15E60-80BF-464C-B411-D852B7FD957A.jpeg
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by drowld » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:10 am

Are we actually talking morals are if they are a product of nature rather than our own individual minds ?
Like is the morality here subjective or objective ?
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:55 am

drowld wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:10 am
Are we actually talking morals are if they are a product of nature rather than our own individual minds ?
Like is the morality here subjective or objective ?
I think that’s up to the individual IMHO. Some people love what they’re doing. Other people hare it. A lot of us have a couple of Behringer pieces, and are on the fence about things, but at the end of the day, what is moral to you, may not be moral to me.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by drowld » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:28 am

3hands wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:55 am
drowld wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:10 am
Are we actually talking morals are if they are a product of nature rather than our own individual minds ?
Like is the morality here subjective or objective ?
I think that’s up to the individual IMHO. Some people love what they’re doing. Other people hare it. A lot of us have a couple of Behringer pieces, and are on the fence about things, but at the end of the day, what is moral to you, may not be moral to me.
So to you morality is absolutely subjective ?
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:57 am

drowld wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:28 am

So to you morality is absolutely subjective ?
WHOA Nelly!

If you want to debate moral relativity, I suggest you hie thee over to the Philosophy Stack Exchange Forum. Hereabouts Hume, Nagel, Harman, and MacIntyre are fair game for module names and we like to wiggle knobs.

This thread includes the morality of Big B, not our own personal takes.

I will still buy Behringer the same way I will still buy General Motors or shop at WalMart. But I don't buy Monsanto products or eat at Jimmy John's.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:08 am

drowld wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:28 am
3hands wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:55 am
drowld wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:10 am
Are we actually talking morals are if they are a product of nature rather than our own individual minds ?
Like is the morality here subjective or objective ?
I think that’s up to the individual IMHO. Some people love what they’re doing. Other people hare it. A lot of us have a couple of Behringer pieces, and are on the fence about things, but at the end of the day, what is moral to you, may not be moral to me.
So to you morality is absolutely subjective ?
Wow you went from 0-100!!

In the case of Behringer? Yes. Let’s keep it on the topic at hand, and not over generalize the hell out of it like you just tried to do.
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