Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

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Smother
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Smother » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 pm

Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:01 pm
Smother wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:55 pm
I just think after that masterpiece all community will take care of your brain cells, if there are some left
I think you are starting to reveal yourself a bit more and your english is certainly improving.
Thanks.
I didn't think a perfect english was required to post something on this forum

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Yes Powder
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Yes Powder » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 pm

loudnoises.jpg
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Man-In-A-Suitcase
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:08 pm

aroom wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:03 pm
guys

you can use DM to chat and gaslight each other


thanks
Yes, yes shouldn't you be tending to your mountain goats, i hear it's a hobby you swiss have.

But anyway, Uli Behringer is from Switzerland.
Last edited by Man-In-A-Suitcase on Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:09 pm

Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Ah! i see. It's very clear now! If you don't have an opinion you won't be heard. Best notto be the little mouse in the corner.
Not native english speaker not sure what to read into this sentence so I won't try.
Just to make it clear, I did not intend to speak any negative towards you. If you read it like that I sincerely apologize. I notices you use sarcasm a lot and formulated me what I thought to be similar tone. Again sorry if it missed.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:12 pm

Smother wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 pm
I didn't think a perfect english was required to post something on this forum
It's all fine, i just thought Yoda was posting in here!

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Be Sandy? » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:14 pm

Mr Smother is taking a time out to consider his participation on the forum.
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Red Electric Rainbow
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:25 pm

Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:49 pm
any word on the RD-9 release date?
Yeah! i heard it's scheduled for release in 2029.
hell yeah :tu:
TOO FAR GONE

mat1
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by mat1 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:35 pm

Smother wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:50 pm
Ok I get it.
It's gonna be like GS.
Nobody cares about it.
Everyone bow down to a man using forums to attack other manufacturers.
And people who like this attitude attack the others using him as inspiration.
Fine.
Keep on going like this, no worry, he's gonna eat this forum as he did with GS.
You are right, who cares at the end.
I go back to make music.
Bye bye.
You're trying to stifle a conversation that people are interested in because it's gone somewhere you don't like. You should know by now forums don't work like that :doh:

Anyone that reads the emails can make up their own mind on the matter.

I'm done responding to you. You're taking this too personally.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by kcearl » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:46 pm

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:25 pm
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:49 pm
any word on the RD-9 release date?
Yeah! i heard it's scheduled for release in 2029.
hell yeah :tu:
Gives us time to save $349 lol

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:47 pm

mat1 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:35 pm
You're trying to stifle a conversation that people are interested in because it's gone somewhere you don't like. You should know by now forums don't work like that :doh:

Anyone that reads the emails can make up their own mind on the matter.

I'm done responding to you. You're taking this too personally.
I think you have just wasted internet ink here, smother has been given a ban by the mod if you didn't notice.

mat1
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by mat1 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:51 pm

Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:47 pm
I think you have just wasted internet ink here, smother has been given a ban by the mod if you didn't notice.
Ahh. Well that's one good thing.

So now I'd be interested in hearing from other designers what terms they would want to work with someone like Behringer..

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:59 pm

mat1 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:51 pm
So now I'd be interested in hearing from other designers what terms they would want to work with someone like Behringer..
Also be interesting if 15k offered to Devil Fish where for the "brand name" alone. Or if consulting work where expected as Robin laid out in his proposal.

Licudi
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Licudi » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:04 pm

red wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:54 am
Ten beh threads (on the overview page) are way to much - it's time to activate a beh-filter - or a spring cleaning! Otherwise this forum getting closer to GS...
That's the problem for Muffs' self-identity and it's only going to get worse. If Behringer isn't corralled in its own sub-forum (a possible solution that I understand has been dismissed), its products may well overwhelm the forum, particularly when the Euro modules arrive.

The sheer scale of Music Tribe's output and ambitions doesn’t seem to be recognised here yet.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:04 pm

kcearl wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:46 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:25 pm
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:49 pm
any word on the RD-9 release date?
Yeah! i heard it's scheduled for release in 2029.
hell yeah :tu:
Gives us time to save $349 lol
might not have to sell anything to fund it.
TOO FAR GONE

Man-In-A-Suitcase
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:23 pm

StillNotWorking wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:59 pm
mat1 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:51 pm
So now I'd be interested in hearing from other designers what terms they would want to work with someone like Behringer..
Also be interesting if 15k offered to Devil Fish where for the "brand name" alone. Or if consulting work where expected as Robin laid out in his proposal.
Not forgetting asking Behringer to pay him $303k ("I think this an in-house joke here by Robin note the number 303", kind of trolling Behringer really). Robin Whittle works for his family business as a consultant, so he's bound to be getting paid handsomely for that job as well. But i am thinking it's just pure greed on his part for a mod that costs a few dollars that he has no discernable patents on.

No patents means free for all.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by dkMode » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:44 pm

kcearl wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:46 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:25 pm
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:49 pm
any word on the RD-9 release date?
Yeah! i heard it's scheduled for release in 2029.
hell yeah :tu:
Gives us time to save $349 lol
By 2029 it’ll likely be $449.

kcearl
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by kcearl » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:25 pm

dkMode wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:44 pm
kcearl wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:46 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:25 pm
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:49 pm
any word on the RD-9 release date?
Yeah! i heard it's scheduled for release in 2029.
hell yeah :tu:
Gives us time to save $349 lol
By 2029 it’ll likely be $449.
Imma start saving now!!

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:32 pm

Not forgetting asking Behringer to pay him $303k ("I think this an in-house joke here by Robin note the number 303", kind of trolling Behringer really). Robin Whittle works for his family business as a consultant, so he's bound to be getting paid handsomely for that job as well. But i am thinking it's just pure greed on his part for a mod that costs a few dollars that he has no discernable patents on.

No patents means free for all.
Hmmm. I'm of two minds on this Devilfish thing.

On one hand, the Devilfish mods aren't all that technically challenging. Most of us with a X0X have the know how to build our machine, and mod it. Aaaand, those mods are published and well-documented. I find it amazing that someone would send their X0X or TB-303 out to get the mod. But OTOH, I'm glad there is a little cottage industry happening for people that really really really want the "Devilfish" moniker on their box. I cannot imagine it amounts to much...hundreds of boxes modded, not tens of thousands.

On the Behringer side, they reached out to the Devilfish dude *before* engineering stuff on their own, using published documentation. And let's be clear, this is an argument about producing a clone of a modded clone of a Roland instrument.

Is $15k sufficient? Not to me, I'd ask for expenses, some money up front, and then a royalty/license fee on each box sold. Let's also factor in the inevitable blow to the DevilFish brand once they "sell out" to Behringer. On that I agree with turning down the offer. There was a calculation of "will this be worth it to sell out?" or "It's not worth the time and money, and I don't make a living off of this, anyway."

Now Behringer won't have the blessing of the author of the mod. They can go with their "Murdered Out" edition, which is sort of funny, and seems like a dated term. DevilFish can go on being high and mighty boutique producers, and I very much doubt a BevilBish clone will impact the miniscule mod market they have established, unless said mods cost over $500.

Conclusion for me is Uli made an effort, hooray. He lowballed it, but that's business for you. DevilFish didn't see any profit in the offer, and was hoping for pie in the sky. He turned it down when he realized it wasn't even pie. The public posts about the deal were totally uncalled for. You don't get the deal you want, and walk away from someone offering you money for something they can get for free? Wah wah. Don't make it seem like there's any IP here. THAT seems underhanded.

The real shame here is waiting to spend your money on a Behringer box, when you can just build your own. Same goes for your DevilFish mods. :doh:
----------------------

Flounderguts

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:39 pm

Also, no patents mean nothing like "free for all."

A patent is an agreement with the government to PUBLISH your work in return for the legal right to defend your commercial primacy of a product. You can build anything with a patent for yourself, as long as you don't want to use it for a commercial enterprise.
If the entity that holds a patent on the item determines you are violating their commercial primacy, they can attempt to prosecute you, and if you have enough money, you can probably break the patent. OR...you can come up with a unique and non-obvious improvement or use for the patent that was not described in any prior art, and then patent it yourself!

The real point here is PUBLISHING YOUR WORK. If you publish it in a way that is not a patent, you have no legal protections. Hey, sorry if you didn't realize the commercial applications.

I'm going to start laughing when someone starts cloning Behringer....
----------------------

Flounderguts

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:52 pm

Flounderguts wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:39 pm
I'm going to start laughing when someone starts cloning Behringer....
They sue you from here to kingdom fall just like Apple does when anyone use their own trics.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by UltraViolet » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:53 pm

It is also important to remember that part of the patent agreement that gives exclusive rights for a period of years also makes the idea free for anyone to use after the patent period expires. If Behringer copies something with an expired patent (like the Model D) then that is totally legit. However, that doesn't make stealing more recent ideas from others OK.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:16 pm

“Murdered Out” edition sounds sick
TOO FAR GONE

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:27 pm

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:16 pm
“Murdered Out” edition sounds sick

Right?
Gum is fun, but not on a cat.

My minds an art gallery.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Blairio » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Moderators, for the love of mercy, can you not consign this thread to the oblivion it so richly deserves?

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by SynthBaron » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:00 pm

Flounderguts wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:32 pm
and I very much doubt a BevilBish clone will impact the miniscule mod market they have established, unless said mods cost over $500.
Devilfish mod prices start at $1236, not including shipping. Up to $3419 with all the refurbishment and highest level options done:

http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/prices-int/

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