Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

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Divinital_
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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:19 am

Xmit wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:47 am
is there not a danger here in confusing what something is 'worth' based on the costs of the components, the costs in manufacturing & assembling it versus what it 'will sell for' on the commercial market ?

What Korg have done here is produced a brand new minty fresh version of a synthesizer fetching £6k - £11k on the used market depending upon condition. The 2600s 'worth' is more a factor of it's hertitage, it's mystique, it's overal kudos as a classic legendary synthesizer.

I would say the KARP version stacks up very well financially given the overall market.
I don't understand how people can argue about or feel offended by the price of something, be it cheap or expensive. It's a documented science, economics, supply and demand.

Imagine this, Korg released this product at $3,900 and not a SINGLE person on the entire planet preordered on. Would it still be $3,900 today?

No.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by blw » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:21 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:19 am
Imagine this, Korg released this product at $3,900 and not a SINGLE person on the entire planet preordered on. Would it still be $3,900 today?

No.
And inversely, when that $3,900 synth sells out nearly as quickly as Justin Beiber concert tix . . . :lol:

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:23 pm

blw wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:21 pm
Divinital_ wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:19 am
Imagine this, Korg released this product at $3,900 and not a SINGLE person on the entire planet preordered on. Would it still be $3,900 today?

No.
And inversely, when that $3,900 synth sells out nearly as quickly as Justin Beiber concert tix . . . :lol:
Only reason I haven’t canceled my order. I’d love to get one, use it, and sell it for slightly higher just to cut my losses. Best of both worlds without being too douchey with the sale, just mitigate any online sales fee and shipping cost.

However, the more I think about it, the more I imagine myself with a Moog Matriarch, Polyend Tracker, new Fender and a new pedal for the same price...

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:17 pm

galanter2 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:06 am
Why is that? Which law where? IDGI
Psrt of the EU's Ecodesign regs, intended to reduce power needs. Includes restrictions on efficiency that linear supplies cannot meet.

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by KSS » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:41 pm

tobb wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 am
No,it is not,these are not boutique units,these are produced in quantity,those sockets/faders are ordered in high quantity and so are also very cheap,idem for the knobs,custom molding knobs these days cost peanuts (why do you think you can have now all colors of fake Davies knobs...,the resale prices are unrealistic VS the real cost)

Everything is mega cheap on this synth including the ridiculous PSU.. and yes those pieces of wood housing cost peanuts,you forget its made in high quantity,not a 20 piece boutique batch.

The tolexing likely takes a bit xtra time due to delicate handling,but its not a single piece they do,its chain-work so goes fast,everything is pre-cut
Tobb, Can you point to one of your posts an *any* thread on *any* site where you said the price was *not* too high?
Do you have any real world experience building electrronics for sale to the general consumer?
I have seen you minimize the cost of so many different synths and related products that i just expect that you will again make the kind of reply seen here.

Custom molding Davies 1900 knobs which sell across many different products means they're amortizing the mold and devlopment costs among a huge number of parts. If we assume Korg made 1000 of these 2600's -which seems reasonable given various identified country allocation of units- then they made 57000 slider knobs. This number is high enough that they had to use expensive mold steel and could not take advantage ofthe less expensive means to product modled parts. Such molds themselves cost thousands, or many thousands of dollars. I am not speaking from guesses, but from actual experience receiving quotes from Chinese -and American- knob manufacturers.

But this doesn't really matter because it's still taking the bait of your belief as shared in too many posts to count that parts cost is themain driver of expense. It is not. And never has been.

There is a video online of a commercial tolexing operation at a guitar amp maker in Petaluma california. Have a look to see just how much equipment and skilled operators are required. Don;t forget to add the costs of shipping the 2600 cases, since Korg already shared that they couldn't have done this without resorting to the use of one of their Amp brands to make the Tolex cases. FWIW the pre-cutting you speak of has to be done, and that involves both a die board with knives, and a large press. Seen in the video I mentioned. Even factories have topay for their machinery and keep it in good shape. An additional cost.

It is clear from your many posts on this subject of pricing that you have no clear understanding of what "real cost" means. As a result, you mislead others to think everybody's involved in some kind of high price tactic, instead of simply covering their *actual* real costs.

I don't expect to convince you. This is more for those who might take time to think about the subject and investigate why things cost what they do.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by galanter2 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:12 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:51 pm
... and 2001 is one of my favorite movies ever, so even sitting in front of what was used to score it will be priceless.
2001 was released in 1968. The ARP 2600 was released in 1971.

But maybe I'm missing something here...

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by galanter2 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:13 pm

KSS wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:17 pm
galanter2 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:06 am
Why is that? Which law where? IDGI
Psrt of the EU's Ecodesign regs, intended to reduce power needs. Includes restrictions on efficiency that linear supplies cannot meet.
Interesting, thanks!

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:20 am

galanter2 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:12 pm
Divinital_ wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:51 pm
... and 2001 is one of my favorite movies ever, so even sitting in front of what was used to score it will be priceless.
2001 was released in 1968. The ARP 2600 was released in 1971.

But maybe I'm missing something here...
A bit disappointed now, I thought the 2600 came out earlier. I was informed by someone it was used on 2001 which in that case wouldn’t make sense.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by dml » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:06 am

Especially considering that all of the music for "2001: A Space Odyssey" was pre-existing music Kubrick chose while editing the film. There was an original score written but never used for the film.
Best,

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by mmp » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:08 am

I can’t remember any electronic music in the 2001 score, except for the Daisy vocoder bit.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:20 am

Perhaps I got my movies mixed up, I'll admit I haven't seen 2001 since college but I watch very few movies, I can't name the last movie I've watched. R2D2 is the cookie cutter reference but I swear there was another movie I had seen that someone mentioned had used the 2600, unless that person had no idea their self.

Note to self, don't believe everything you internet. A cursory Google search brings the 2500 being used in Close Encounters of the Third Kind . Still nothing regarding a 2600.

Regardless, nothing to see here, moving on. Was wrong and/or misinterpreted information.

Back to topic.
Last edited by Divinital_ on Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by RowanH » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:25 am

Maybe you're thinking of 'Close Encounters...'. Which was a 2500 in any case, but I've seen people thinking it was a 2600.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 am

RowanH wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:25 am
Maybe you're thinking of 'Close Encounters...'. Which was a 2500 in any case, but I've seen people thinking it was a 2600.
It's possible, haven't seen that movie though. Still unsure as to why 2001 stuck with me. I wouldn't have conjured it up for no reason as I read or heard whatever it was after the Korg announcement and haven't seen 2001 for many years.

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by estin » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:53 am

KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 pm
estin wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!
Haterz gonna hate.
No hate here friend, that box is mostly air! Just making an observation. :hihi:

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by tobb » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:47 pm

KSS wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:41 pm
tobb wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 am
No,it is not,these are not boutique units,these are produced in quantity,those sockets/faders are ordered in high quantity and so are also very cheap,idem for the knobs,custom molding knobs these days cost peanuts (why do you think you can have now all colors of fake Davies knobs...,the resale prices are unrealistic VS the real cost)

Everything is mega cheap on this synth including the ridiculous PSU.. and yes those pieces of wood housing cost peanuts,you forget its made in high quantity,not a 20 piece boutique batch.

The tolexing likely takes a bit xtra time due to delicate handling,but its not a single piece they do,its chain-work so goes fast,everything is pre-cut
Tobb, Can you point to one of your posts an *any* thread on *any* site where you said the price was *not* too high?
Do you have any real world experience building electrronics for sale to the general consumer?
I have seen you minimize the cost of so many different synths and related products that i just expect that you will again make the kind of reply seen here.

Custom molding Davies 1900 knobs which sell across many different products means they're amortizing the mold and devlopment costs among a huge number of parts. If we assume Korg made 1000 of these 2600's -which seems reasonable given various identified country allocation of units- then they made 57000 slider knobs. This number is high enough that they had to use expensive mold steel and could not take advantage ofthe less expensive means to product modled parts. Such molds themselves cost thousands, or many thousands of dollars. I am not speaking from guesses, but from actual experience receiving quotes from Chinese -and American- knob manufacturers.

But this doesn't really matter because it's still taking the bait of your belief as shared in too many posts to count that parts cost is themain driver of expense. It is not. And never has been.

There is a video online of a commercial tolexing operation at a guitar amp maker in Petaluma california. Have a look to see just how much equipment and skilled operators are required. Don;t forget to add the costs of shipping the 2600 cases, since Korg already shared that they couldn't have done this without resorting to the use of one of their Amp brands to make the Tolex cases. FWIW the pre-cutting you speak of has to be done, and that involves both a die board with knives, and a large press. Seen in the video I mentioned. Even factories have topay for their machinery and keep it in good shape. An additional cost.

It is clear from your many posts on this subject of pricing that you have no clear understanding of what "real cost" means. As a result, you mislead others to think everybody's involved in some kind of high price tactic, instead of simply covering their *actual* real costs.

I don't expect to convince you. This is more for those who might take time to think about the subject and investigate why things cost what they do.
At first sight/presentation ,my first impression it was a fair price,now its more revealed ppl are just overpaying.

Yes i have real world experience selling electronics,since many years,that's i why i throw my findings.

Molds costs depends on manufacturing process ,cheaper now then before,6-7k is peanuts for a production batch like the ARP2600

I have watched already custom tolexing,indeed needs many carefully manipulation,but like i wrote in a chain all pre-cut its just routine.

So yes,you clearly have no insight view between the differences of chain production and boutique handcraft builts

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Analog Prophet » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 am

With all respect, but is this a playground or what? If someone missed it; Korg is not a charity non-profit organization. They put in some love and passion and made a desirable product but at the end of the road it is all about money. Take it or leave it, it’s that simple.
Last edited by Analog Prophet on Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Xmit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:14 am

my first impression it was a fair price,now its more revealed ppl are just overpaying
<facepalm>

see my post. They're not overpaying. You're getting a brand new, fresh 2600 with MIDI & balanced outputs with an improved 3620 keyboard & flightcases for the whole system for £3.5K

Sure, I'd have loved it even more if it was £1000 less, but I genuniely don't feel this is an unfair price at all from Korg.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:10 am

Xmit wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:14 am
my first impression it was a fair price,now its more revealed ppl are just overpaying
<facepalm>

see my post. They're not overpaying. You're getting a brand new, fresh 2600 with MIDI & balanced outputs with an improved 3620 keyboard & flightcases for the whole system for £3.5K

Sure, I'd have loved it even more if it was £1000 less, but I genuniely don't feel this is an unfair price at all from Korg.
The age of the Behringer.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by gryfon1 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 am

This shouldn't be hard.
If you would rather have the item than the money or any of the other uses to which the money could be put to use, it’s worth it.
If not, not.
Your preferences and your range of other uses for the asking price are different from mine and mine are different from that other guy’s.
There is no universal ‘right price’. We each get to choose how to spend, or not spend our money. Nobody else’s opinion matters.

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by chiasticon » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:10 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:13 pm
There is more than nostalgia to be considered here. While some may feel the size difference is 'wasted space', I will contend that user interface usability is at least as important. In this case, that is an original vs now statement. But it holds even if this were an entirely new design. Like the old Macbeth M5 for example. Even though that is not really related to anything 2600, its large size was a *very* conscious choice Ken made having to do with the feeling of working with it. Not its contents.

Just because something *can* be made smaller does not mean it should be!
I agree with this. the interface of both instruments is half of what makes them so much fun to use. it's like playing a drum kit: you feel like you're part of the instrument rather than just touching it.

however, as someone who has paid to ship a Macbeth M5N before and taken a peek inside... yeah it's disconcerting to see that giant, heavy, 99% empty box. :bang:

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by thispoison » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:56 pm

Ain't it funny how a similar point can be made with different words and yet one feels sneering and negative and the other is honest and funny!

"LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!"

"however, as someone who has paid to ship a Macbeth M5N before and taken a peek inside... yeah it's disconcerting to see that giant, heavy, 99% empty box. :bang:"

I favour the latter, but also agree it's up to the individual, and to me this 2600 is a great deal for the price. YMMV.
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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by langley » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:15 pm

I got let down on my order - the shop got fewer than expected. I was slightly miffed but have seen a post showing inside the synth and was a bit surprised to see it is SMD, not through hole as the original would have been. Not so miffed now. But still a bit miffed.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by thispoison » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:30 pm

Fair play I guess if they've 'fessed up so quick that they were shorted by Korg. I've still heard nothing new from Andertons. Which dealer was it for you?

I still really want one, SMD or not. It's definitely beautiful and sounds close enough to me.
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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by tobb » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:23 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:10 am
Xmit wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:14 am
my first impression it was a fair price,now its more revealed ppl are just overpaying
<facepalm>

see my post. They're not overpaying. You're getting a brand new, fresh 2600 with MIDI & balanced outputs with an improved 3620 keyboard & flightcases for the whole system for £3.5K

Sure, I'd have loved it even more if it was £1000 less, but I genuniely don't feel this is an unfair price at all from Korg.
The age of the Behringer.
No, The generation of vintage,those that knows the value of money..(read what you have to do for it)

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:02 pm

langley wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:15 pm
I got let down on my order - the shop got fewer than expected. I was slightly miffed but have seen a post showing inside the synth and was a bit surprised to see it is SMD, not through hole as the original would have been. Not so miffed now. But still a bit miffed.
They said from the beginning it'd be a combination. I emailed them directly.

"Hi Brandon,

Excellent news! So glad to hear this!

The Arp 2600 consist of a combination of thru-hole circuits along with modern surface-mount technology.


Best regards,


Product Support
KORG USA Inc."


The inside looks a biiiiit skewed towards SMT. Mildly disappointment myself.

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