Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Dave Peck » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:59 pm

..we don't get to do that?

Aw shucks.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Blairio » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:33 pm

AutomaticGainsay wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:36 pm
I get that people want to use sequencers, and yes, Korg pandered a bit to the market by putting a sequencer and an arpeggiator in the reproduction... but you literally DO NOT get to demand or expect these aspects in a recreation of a vintage synthesizer, and you CERTAINLY do not get to decry a faithful reproduction because it doesn't have your modern desires.
An old design is not by default a perfect one. I would like a reproduction E Type Jaguar, but I would want one with brakes that work, and seatbelts...

Likewise there is nothing wrong in incorporating sensible enhancements in the remanufacture of a synth, and the ability for an instrument to communicate easily with others is a pretty sensible enhancement. The sound of the instrument need not be altered.

Korg have already deviated from the original 2600 by the inclusion of midi (and other bits and bobs). They are not too precious about their baby, so perhaps you don't need to be either.

On a personal note, I have Korg MS10. Should Korg ever remanufacture that, I would love them to ditch the hz/volt standard for 1v/octave. A velocity sensitive keyboard would be neat too, and midi, so my DAW can talk to it without needing a Kenton Pro. As long as it sounds the same, and has the same ergonomics, the rest would be a bonus.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Analog Prophet » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:15 am

We are talking about two different things here: The reproduction of the classic 2600 and about the possibilities with the additional MIDI implementation as a “modern” bonus (to me a data protocol from 1983 is not something smoking modern, I’m prepared to consider 37 years old synthstuff as “vintage”). The manual does not mention MIDI clock and referee to an additional MIDI Implementation at the site - but I can’t find no such at the site or elsewhere. Then I’m not undivided happy about MIDI in general that slowly killed all beautiful about synths, but that’s another subject of divided opinions...
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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:19 am

Final word from Korg :

"Hi _____,

I spoke to development and please allow me to clarify.

At this time, it is not possible to sync the arp/sequencer of the ARP2600 to an external MIDI clock by using MIDI but Korg is planning on updating the firmware in the future to allow this feature. Sorry for any confusion.

I don’t know of any plans of implementing user samples on the Korg Wavestate but I am more than happy to forward your request to our development team for consideration.


Best regards,


Product Support
KORG USA Inc.
"

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Blairio » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:39 am

Analog Prophet wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:15 am
We are talking about two different things here: The reproduction of the classic 2600 and about the possibilities with the additional MIDI implementation as a “modern” bonus (to me a data protocol from 1983 is not something smoking modern, I’m prepared to consider 37 years old synthstuff as “vintage”). The manual does not mention MIDI clock and referee to an additional MIDI Implementation at the site - but I can’t find no such at the site or elsewhere. Then I’m not undivided happy about MIDI in general that slowly killed all beautiful about synths, but that’s another subject of divided opinions...
I think suggesting midi killed everything beautiful about synths, is a bit of a stretch ', however apologies if that is not what you meant.

Midi offers backwards (and forwards!) communications compatibility. That even after 37 years there are still few alternatives to it is a monument to the original idea. In the time midi has been around I have seen more networking comms standards come and go than I care to count.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:53 am

Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:39 am
Analog Prophet wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:15 am
We are talking about two different things here: The reproduction of the classic 2600 and about the possibilities with the additional MIDI implementation as a “modern” bonus (to me a data protocol from 1983 is not something smoking modern, I’m prepared to consider 37 years old synthstuff as “vintage”). The manual does not mention MIDI clock and referee to an additional MIDI Implementation at the site - but I can’t find no such at the site or elsewhere. Then I’m not undivided happy about MIDI in general that slowly killed all beautiful about synths, but that’s another subject of divided opinions...
I think suggesting midi killed everything beautiful about synths, is a bit of a stretch ', however apologies if that is not what you meant.

Midi offers backwards (and forwards!) communications compatibility. That even after 37 years there are still few alternatives to it is a monument to the original idea. In the time midi has been around I have seen more networking comms standards come and go than I care to count.
I'm old fashioned, and even after listening to plenty of electronic music new and old, the thing that turned me onto synths has always been "Welcome to the Machine". I think with the widespread implementation of MIDI in everything, it has killed the craftsmanship to SOME extent.

There are what I'd call the MIDI savants, and then everyone else. People that use MIDI as an instrument in itself, and people that use MIDI as a means to robotically play their instruments. Having a robot play a saxophone is a cool novelty, but I don't look up tracks everyday that would fall in that category.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Blairio » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:26 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:53 am
Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:39 am
Analog Prophet wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:15 am
We are talking about two different things here: The reproduction of the classic 2600 and about the possibilities with the additional MIDI implementation as a “modern” bonus (to me a data protocol from 1983 is not something smoking modern, I’m prepared to consider 37 years old synthstuff as “vintage”). The manual does not mention MIDI clock and referee to an additional MIDI Implementation at the site - but I can’t find no such at the site or elsewhere. Then I’m not undivided happy about MIDI in general that slowly killed all beautiful about synths, but that’s another subject of divided opinions...
I think suggesting midi killed everything beautiful about synths, is a bit of a stretch ', however apologies if that is not what you meant.

Midi offers backwards (and forwards!) communications compatibility. That even after 37 years there are still few alternatives to it is a monument to the original idea. In the time midi has been around I have seen more networking comms standards come and go than I care to count.
I'm old fashioned, and even after listening to plenty of electronic music new and old, the thing that turned me onto synths has always been "Welcome to the Machine". I think with the widespread implementation of MIDI in everything, it has killed the craftsmanship to SOME extent.

There are what I'd call the MIDI savants, and then everyone else. People that use MIDI as an instrument in itself, and people that use MIDI as a means to robotically play their instruments. Having a robot play a saxophone is a cool novelty, but I don't look up tracks everyday that would fall in that category.
Midi is not just about DAWs triggering parts. When I did more live work I used one or two mother keyboards configured with splits and layers, triggering a number of synths and samplers. Others took it a stage further and controlled lighting effects and multimedia via midi - still manually. Pre-midi there was the odd proprietary buss (such as Roland's), but midi revolutionised this area. This aspect of midi (live performance) tends to get passed over.

Were we humans possessed of more than one pair of arms, I guess this use case for midi would be redundant.

Frankly I think of midi as a (moderately) intelligent wire. It can convey note events, patches, parameters. By and large it is a resilient protocol, often let down by the physical implementation. It is not for nothing that early adopters of midi for live use ditched the 5 pin din plugs for locking XLR connections.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:28 am

Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:26 am
Midi is not just about DAWs triggering parts.
I never mentioned DAWs.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Blairio » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:36 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:28 am
Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:26 am
Midi is not just about DAWs triggering parts.
I never mentioned DAWs.
My mistake, I took the 'robot' as in your comment "having a robot play a saxophone" to mean a computer program.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:44 am

Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:36 am
Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:28 am
Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:26 am
Midi is not just about DAWs triggering parts.
I never mentioned DAWs.
My mistake, I took the 'robot' as in your comment "having a robot play a saxophone" to mean a computer program.
I tend to think in a live performance setup. The Octatrack and Deluge are just computer programs I guess.

I’m wrong about the whole thing, you are right.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Blairio » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:56 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:44 am
Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:36 am
Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:28 am
Blairio wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:26 am
Midi is not just about DAWs triggering parts.
I never mentioned DAWs.
My mistake, I took the 'robot' as in your comment "having a robot play a saxophone" to mean a computer program.
I tend to think in a live performance setup. The Octatrack and Deluge are just computer programs I guess.

I’m wrong about the whole thing, you are right.
It is not cut and dried. Midi has a finite resolution, and I can well believe that subtle nuances in an excellent musician's performance could be lost in this relatively low resolution. So yes, midi could be unintentionally filtering information out!

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by dashwood » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:08 pm

So I've noticed an error in the new manual which is repeated in Korg's /dealers blurb about the 2600FS.

It states: ' The electronic Switch can be sync’d to either the 2600’s internal clock or an external clock signal, as can the Sample & Hold rate '.

I've tested this on the 2600FS and this isn't the case. Yes the S&H can be clocked externally but the switch, as stated in the original manual and so presumably on the original 2600, is permanently connected to the internal (EDIT:Opps!) clock.

:foul:
Last edited by dashwood on Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by doombient.music » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:03 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:19 am
[…] At this time, it is not possible to sync the arp/sequencer of the ARP2600 to an external MIDI clock by using MIDI but Korg is planning on updating the firmware in the future […]
Blame it on me not being a native speaker but to me this sounds like "we're going to make more of these in the future".

Otherwise the introduction of this firmware update would not make much sense, would it?
dashwood wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:08 pm
So I've noticed an error in the new manual which is repeated in Korg's /dealers blurb about the 2600FS.

It states: ' The electronic Switch can be sync’d to either the 2600’s internal clock or an external clock signal, as can the Sample & Hold rate '.

I've tested this on the 2600FS and this isn't the case. Yes the S&H can be clocked externally but the switch, as stated in the original manual and so presumably on the original 2600, is permanently connected to the external clock.

:foul:
The Electronic Switch is usually governed by the S/H clock which cannot be overridden by an external clock signal. Seems to be the case with the re-issued model as well.

Which is truly authentic, I'd say.

Stephen

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by dashwood » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:36 pm

doombient.music wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:03 pm

The Electronic Switch is usually governed by the S/H clock which cannot be overridden by an external clock signal. Seems to be the case with the re-issued model as well.

Which is truly authentic, I'd say.

Stephen
No, the S&H clock CAN be overidden, what do you think the 'external clock' input is for in the S&H section ?..but despite what the NEW manual and Korg sales pitch says, the switch can't..but yes, this is authentic behaviour, just wrong of Korg to state otherwise.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:37 pm

doombient.music wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:03 pm
Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:19 am
[…] At this time, it is not possible to sync the arp/sequencer of the ARP2600 to an external MIDI clock by using MIDI but Korg is planning on updating the firmware in the future […]
Blame it on me not being a native speaker but to me this sounds like "we're going to make more of these in the future".

Otherwise the introduction of this firmware update would not make much sense, would it?
If the Korg rep says they spoke to the 2600 development team and was told there will be a firmware update to include this feature, surely I have faith this includes the early buyers' units as well. That would make absolutely no sense otherwise, not even the lowest of the low would pull a stunt like that.

The arp/sequencer IS MIDI, since the keyboard/controller connects via dedicated 5 pin MIDI. It's not an analog sequencer or something, they are able to update the only software portion of the 2600 via MIDI or USB. I am not a 2600 developer nor a product rep. Wild speculation beyond anything they tell us while dismissing, after clarification, what they had just said is foolish to do.

I will email the rep again right now to see if they can ask the dev team for a more technical response as to how it would work.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by doombient.music » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:45 pm

dashwood wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:36 pm
[...] No, the S&H clock CAN be overidden, what do you think the 'external clock' input is for in the S&H section ?.. […]
For clocking the Sample/Hold Generator?

Running an external clock into the S&H input does not address the electronic switch on my black-orange 2600 but perhaps it's been broken right from the start (and replacing the switching jacks didn't help it either).

Be it as it may, I never cared much anyway.

Stephen

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:53 pm

AutomaticGainsay wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:36 pm
I get that people want to use sequencers, and yes, Korg pandered a bit to the market by putting a sequencer and an arpeggiator in the reproduction... but you literally DO NOT get to demand or expect these aspects in a recreation of a vintage synthesizer, and you CERTAINLY do not get to decry a faithful reproduction because it doesn't have your modern desires.
"EXT CLOCK IN jack

This is an input jack for an external clock. If a clock signal is input from an external device to this jack, the SAMPLE & HOLD and ELECTRONIC SWITCH will synchronize to the external clock."

Again, until it's tested, it's just speculation. I'm really not sure about this one. If you look at the front panel schematic, it looks like the external clock goes to the internal clock and overrides it, which is then being SUMMED or something with the electronic switches A and B outputs, which outputs the result to electronic switch C, which would then be the synced one.

I'm not sure if A and B can be synced to an external clock or are hard synced to the internal clock, since the external clock input does not directly apply its voltage to their source, but rather their result before going out switch C.

The fact you can take electronic switch outputs A and B which symbollicaly are untouched by the external clock input, makes me think they are not synced to it.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by dashwood » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:00 pm

doombient.music wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:45 pm
dashwood wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:36 pm
[...] No, the S&H clock CAN be overidden, what do you think the 'external clock' input is for in the S&H section ?.. […]
For clocking the Sample/Hold Generator?

Running an external clock into the S&H input does not address the electronic switch on my black-orange 2600 but perhaps it's been broken right from the start (and replacing the switching jacks didn't help it either).

Be it as it may, I never cared much anyway.

Stephen
Sorry, I think we may be saying the same thing Stephen: S&H CAN be externally clocked, Switch CAN'T.

This is what's stated in the ORIGINAL manual but in the new one Korg have got this wrong.

:tu:

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by dashwood » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:53 pm

Again, until it's tested, it's just speculation. I'm really not sure about this one. If you look at the front panel schematic, it looks like the external clock goes to the internal clock and overrides it, which is then being SUMMED or something with the electronic switches A and B outputs, which outputs the result to electronic switch C, which would then be the synced one.

I'm not sure if A and B can be synced to an external clock or are hard synced to the internal clock, since the external clock input does not directly apply its voltage to their source, but rather their result before going out switch C.

The fact you can take electronic switch outputs A and B which symbollicaly are untouched by the external clock input, makes me think they are not synced to it.
I've tested it so no speculation here. Switch can't be externally clocked, S&H can, authentic behaviour, however the new Korg manual states otherwise.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by doombient.music » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:36 pm

dashwood wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:00 pm
doombient.music wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:45 pm
dashwood wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:36 pm
[...] No, the S&H clock CAN be overidden, what do you think the 'external clock' input is for in the S&H section ?.. […]
For clocking the Sample/Hold Generator?

Running an external clock into the S&H input does not address the electronic switch on my black-orange 2600 but perhaps it's been broken right from the start (and replacing the switching jacks didn't help it either).

Be it as it may, I never cared much anyway.

Stephen
Sorry, I think we may be saying the same thing Stephen: S&H CAN be externally clocked, Switch CAN'T.

This is what's stated in the ORIGINAL manual but in the new one Korg have got this wrong.

:tu:
I must confess I'm relieved quite a bit -- not another expensive repair bill waiting beyond the horizon.. :party:

Stephen

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:46 pm

"Hi __,

Thank you for your understanding and sorry for the confusion.

The good news is that they are planning to provide an update to sync the arp/sequencer of the ARP2600 to an external MIDI clock. This is still in the planning phase so we don’t have any additional information on how this will be accomplished. 😊

Please feel free to check back at a later date to see if we can provide you with any additional information.


Best regards,


Product Support
KORG USA Inc."

Also AutomaticGainsay made the clarification the connection between keyboard and ARP has 8 pins.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:56 pm

dashwood wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:03 pm
Switch can't be externally clocked, S&H can, authentic behaviour, however the new Korg manual states otherwise.
Correct. And one of the more useful 2600 mods is separating these so E-SW can be externally clocked.

CV of internal clock rate is another and not hard to do if original circuit is in place in Korg's remakes.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:57 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:46 pm
Also AutomaticGainsay made the clarification the connection between keyboard and ARP has 8 pins.
Can you link where to find this, please?

Edit: Never mind, found it.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:07 pm

Original KBD is 6 pins, CV, Gate, Trig, -V,GND, V+, and the 2nd KBD CV is not carried on the cable. So that will be the 7th wire in Korg's eight. That leaves one wire 'available' in the connector. Two possible if they used the DIN8 shield for GND. (Which they shouldn't, but who knows)

I wonder how that 8th wire -and possibly a 9th- is being used?

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:11 pm

Went ahead and canceled my order.

Musician's Friend said that they have 0 incoming as far as they know, and that they have no idea how many they'll possibly get nor who's where on the backorder list and blah, blah... And lastly, they could put in a special order to Korg, as though that'll get anything accomplished. Poorly done, extremely expensive lottery purchase, I am disappointed to say the least but I won't lose sleep over it.

Yes there's a global pandemic, but my Wavestate says it was made in Taiwan, which has had one of the better responses to the pandemic. Of course the global supply chain has been interrupted. Oh well, was nice while it lasted.

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