Behringer Solina

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Kattefjaes
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Re: Behringer Solina

Post by Kattefjaes » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:39 am

ObsoleteModular wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:06 pm
The Waldorf Streichfett is an awesome alternative to these cumbersome old beasts (B clone or original)
Yes, I've had a weird crush on one of those for ages. It's small and inexpensive enough that I could rationalise it, probably.

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StillNotWorking
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Re: Behringer Solina

Post by StillNotWorking » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:33 am

Kattefjaes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:39 am
ObsoleteModular wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:06 pm
The Waldorf Streichfett is an awesome alternative to these cumbersome old beasts (B clone or original)
Yes, I've had a weird crush on one of those for ages. It's small and inexpensive enough that I could rationalise it, probably.
I love mine, — sitting next to a B4000+, Ventilator 2 and an old Korg G4 for some background swirls.
The keyboard version from Waldorf are said to sound much better though, — more organic. Maybe they use a true DSP processing in that one. Sadly I can't justify the space it take up for this kind of sound.
looking for service manual for the Clavia ddrum AT or ddrum III

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olix
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Re: Behringer Solina

Post by olix » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:49 am

I will see if I keep my VP-03...

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Kattefjaes
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Re: Behringer Solina

Post by Kattefjaes » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:23 am

StillNotWorking wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:33 am
Kattefjaes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:39 am
ObsoleteModular wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:06 pm
The Waldorf Streichfett is an awesome alternative to these cumbersome old beasts (B clone or original)
Yes, I've had a weird crush on one of those for ages. It's small and inexpensive enough that I could rationalise it, probably.
I love mine, — sitting next to a B4000+, Ventilator 2 and an old Korg G4 for some background swirls.
The keyboard version from Waldorf are said to sound much better though, — more organic. Maybe they use a true DSP processing in that one. Sadly I can't justify the space it take up for this kind of sound.
Oh dear, don't tell me that.

Ultimately, I just need to keep it in my pants and be patient. When the coronavirus stuff dies down and Analogue Haven can get Juno 106 voices from the factory in China again, I'll be able to have it up and running. That will provide perfectly nice lush pseudo-strings pads and a lot more besides.

However, part of me loves the strings machines and always will. I really shouldn't hear the keyboard one.

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JimY
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Re: Behringer Solina

Post by JimY » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:03 am

StillNotWorking wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:02 am
Appreciate what you are saying JimY. My point where more in terms like Moog declined to make imitation of their own ClusterFlux and infamous MF Delay from low voltage BBD course they were unable to create the sought after sound with current BBD replicas. At least to me string machine sound are the ensemble effect more so than the tone generator.

Do we know if VC-340 has dividers or simple algorithm? If the Solina clone are based on algorithm maybe some more wavetables should be explored?
I don't know, but the Moog needed one of the larger delay BBD's and maybe it was a multitap one. Some of those have been reintroduced recently but I don't know if they were the ones Moog were using.


I can only gather from here and there that it's FPGA top octave with the same CD4520 dividers as the original - those chips are still current and you only need 6 of them - at least I saw a group of 6 same sized chips in a preproduction pcb photo. Logic dividers are always going to put out 50% duty square waves, so shouldn't sound different however they are implemented.

And can I say that I have always found string synths to be something that people just don't agree on? One person's thick and lush is another's cheezy. My personal fave was the Logan, but it did not get used by anyone remembered now, so it won't get cloned. It was technically a bit different. It used 25% pulse waves which were filtered to a saw by a single filter for each 2 octave voice. Each of those voices (Violin/Viola/Cello) went from its own volume fader to a single BBD. You only get a chorus effect when more than one voice is sounding. A single voice gets the usual slow and fast modulation. This is different from the Eminent system where the voices go equally to all 3 BBD's and therefore always have a chorus effect.

There was also an Elka that was popular (cheap) that is fondly remembered. Its ensemble was the usual 3 bbd + dual LFO design only with one of the BBD's removed to save cost.

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JimY
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Re: Behringer Solina

Post by JimY » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:35 pm

I took a look at the Omni II service manual. The chorus has x3 paths using 512 stage BBD's. However, each BBD clock only has x1 modulation sine LFO - not x2 and the LFO's are independent of each other with different rates. Those rates are not specified in the manual. As close tolerance timing components are specified, it seems ARP didn't think they needed checking. The BBD clock base frequencies are adjustable and the manual asks for each BBD to have different clock frequencies. Phaser mode changes the LFO rates and modulation depths in a manner suspiciously like a Juno chorus.
Clearly the Omni chorus is not going to have the same swirl as the original Solina - but it ought to sound effective with x3 independently modulated delays. It sounds good to me anyway.

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