Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

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bitflip
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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by bitflip » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:23 pm

continuum wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:39 am
The later MXP 100/500 and MX stuff is all Digitech - the docs even have the Digitech Utah address on them. Harman basically used the far more prestigious Lexicon name to rebrand Digitech. You won't find a 224 style Hall or Rich Plate anywhere in those boxes. The original Belmont/Waltham MA Lexicon hasn't existed in many years.
Not sure what you mean by "later," but the numerous examples of MPX 500 and 550 that i own have the Lexichip in them, and their docs have the Bedford address on them. :despair:

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by continuum » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:56 pm

bitflip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:23 pm
continuum wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:39 am
The later MXP 100/500 and MX stuff is all Digitech - the docs even have the Digitech Utah address on them. Harman basically used the far more prestigious Lexicon name to rebrand Digitech. You won't find a 224 style Hall or Rich Plate anywhere in those boxes. The original Belmont/Waltham MA Lexicon hasn't existed in many years.
Not sure what you mean by "later," but the numerous examples of MPX 500 and 550 that i own have the Lexichip in them, and their docs have the Bedford address on them. :despair:
The Lexichip changed over the years and is no indication of the quality of the algorithms the units use (see my comments about PCM vs LXP). The MPX might be useful units but they simply do not have the 'Lexicon sound' that made the company famous. The PCM series has some of it and the 224 has all of it.

Harman moved Lexicon over to Digitech in Utah and the top Lexicon people went to other companies like Eventide and Kurzweil. I base this on conversations with those engineers over the years.
Last edited by continuum on Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by continuum » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:56 pm

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by YashN » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:22 pm

And some moved from Kurzweil to go make the best reverb ever at...

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by continuum » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:13 am

YashN wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:22 pm
And some moved from Kurzweil to go make the best reverb ever at...
That could be a few different people: Tim doing the hardware design on the Bricasti or Bob at Source Audio. Both are huge synth fans whom I have met at various meets over the years.
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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by YashN » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:18 am

continuum wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:13 am
That could be a few different people: Tim doing the hardware design on the Bricasti or Bob at Source Audio.
They can't both be "the best reverb ever".

Image

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by bitflip » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:37 pm

continuum wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:56 pm
bitflip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:23 pm
continuum wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:39 am
The later MXP 100/500 and MX stuff is all Digitech - the docs even have the Digitech Utah address on them. Harman basically used the far more prestigious Lexicon name to rebrand Digitech. You won't find a 224 style Hall or Rich Plate anywhere in those boxes. The original Belmont/Waltham MA Lexicon hasn't existed in many years.
Not sure what you mean by "later," but the numerous examples of MPX 500 and 550 that i own have the Lexichip in them, and their docs have the Bedford address on them. :despair:
The Lexichip changed over the years and is no indication of the quality of the algorithms the units use (see my comments about PCM vs LXP). The MPX might be useful units but they simply do not have the 'Lexicon sound' that made the company famous. The PCM series has some of it and the 224 has all of it.

Harman moved Lexicon over to Digitech in Utah and the top Lexicon people went to other companies like Eventide and Kurzweil. I base this on conversations with those engineers over the years.
Thanks for elaborating, continuum, i wasn't aware of the different versions of Lexichip and how they combine with other components in the product lineup. Some digging around led me to this table, though i can't vouch for its accuracy and it explains nothing regarding the algorithms at play:
table.png
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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Monotremata » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:52 pm

What, of all of these including the roland srv2000 that was mentioned, is the easiest to use in terms of limited menu diving or access to knobs? I know the DEP5 has knobs on the front panel, but sounds like the SRV is the preferable unit there.

Also, re: RV5/7, what is it that makes these still worth having today? They sound like industry workhorses, but is there a sound quality that is still desirable? I get the sense that they sound "good", but not necessarily "great" in the way people talk about the earlier generation of DDL reverbs. People are alluding to certain reverb or pitch shifting sounds they like... I'm just wondering in the bigger context (one that includes a DAW and plug-ins) if they are worth the time/energy to program. I definitely appreciate that hardware still has a certain quality that plugs often have, but then there's a tradeoff in terms of efficiency when you get into these more complex units. I mean, for $200, I guess it's very low risk (unlike the much more hyped and $$ units).
I dont think there is a single menu on the SRV, its dead simple. Theres a handful of parameters and each one has its own LCD display on the front. There wasn't much to any of the early 80s Roland gear, my SDE1000 delay has five knobs, buttons for Timex2 and feedback and modulation on/off. Doesn't get much easier than those units. I skipped the SRV2000 and got an SRV330 because I kept reading about how it was 'only good on snares' or some crap. I guess if Chris Carter digs it, I should probably get one now. The 330 rules as well by the way, but its a 90s box so its all menu diving.

The Yamahas you have to watch out for. Lots of irreplaceable parts in some of them nowadays. Always ask the seller if an SPX90 has a new power supply or not too. The OG is gonna die eventually if it hasn't already at some point.
Last edited by Monotremata on Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Joelgrind » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:08 pm

For snare an SPX90 for gated stuff, Lexicon PCM70 for rooms and halls and then Midiverb II for dirty longer reverbs and weird stuff like the “bloom” setting.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by oldgearguy » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:13 pm

I will say the SRV is simple to use, but it definitely is a one trick (reverbs) pony. It also does get warm, so leave a space above it open.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by tron23 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:08 am

Plus one for SRV if we are talking cheap and not obscure.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by natureclubcassettes » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:29 pm

Hey, OP here.
How is the SRV-2000 superior to the DEP-5, beside better MIDI implementation? DEP-5 has knobs galore, sounds great and isn't too obscure/expensive. It seems the SRV might have an edge on presets, but the DEP is really, really versatile. You can find so many sounds just by tweaking a few knobs, changing filter settings, etc.

Plus, please explain the design choice of having the wet/dry knob on the back of the SRV-2000......

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Michael O. » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:44 pm

natureclubcassettes wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:29 pm
Hey, OP here.
How is the SRV-2000 superior to the DEP-5, beside better MIDI implementation? DEP-5 has knobs galore, sounds great and isn't too obscure/expensive. It seems the SRV might have an edge on presets, but the DEP is really, really versatile. You can find so many sounds just by tweaking a few knobs, changing filter settings, etc.

Plus, please explain the design choice of having the wet/dry knob on the back of the SRV-2000......
The reverb sound in the SRV is simply better sounding, imo. Also more versatile in terms of its parameters. The DEP is more of a multieffect unit, whereas the SRV is solely focused on being a great reverb (sort of like the difference between the pcm80 and pcm90). The wet/dry mix is on the back because one wouldn’t need access to it like they would the other parameters (unless they were using the unit inline, which would be very rare unless it’s part of a guitar rig or something).
The dep is great though, especially for delays if you don’t have any pcm41/42 units. Both the SRV and the DEP are excellent, pro-grade pieces, and can be had together for like the price of a single euro rack module.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by YashN » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:41 am

Got the firmware upgrade to LXP15 II v2.0 today. I'll keep both of them just in case I find I prefer the original LXP-15 sound. Might do some recordings first with the original before the upgrade.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Michael O. » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:34 pm

YashN wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:41 am
Got the firmware upgrade to LXP15 II v2.0 today. I'll keep both of them just in case I find I prefer the original LXP-15 sound. Might do some recordings first with the original before the upgrade.
I’d love to hear the results- that infamous YouTube comparison video really does seem to show that each revision sounds a bit different from the other, but who knows if the patch parameters (of which there are many) were truly completely identical.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by rowsbywoof » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:37 pm

I sometimes feel like I'm one of a very tiny pool of people that just thinks "meh" every time I hear the Bricasti M7. It's of course a wonderful reverb unit, but it doesn't excite me even a little teeny bit. It's one of those times I feel like I just don't hear at all what everyone else does in it.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by twentyfive2lyfe » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:16 pm

I have an Alesis Microverb that feels very 80's to me. They used to be found super cheap, I think I paid $40 for it. Not sure if that's still the case but it's worth checking out.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by YashN » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:14 pm

Michael O. wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:34 pm
I’d love to hear the results- that infamous YouTube comparison video really does seem to show that each revision sounds a bit different from the other, but who knows if the patch parameters (of which there are many) were truly completely identical.
Heard they tweaked the algorithms. There's a fair chance the parameters are the same, but the parameters' end effect on SQ at the same value is different in each version.

I'll do some .wav recordings and put them on soundcloud or something. Currently planning and implementing some synths + drum machine mods so not sure about the timeframe but will update this thread when I get to it.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Soy Sos » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:37 pm

No thoughts on my earlier points on using reverbs in a send>return configuration verses insert?
I get it that's how the OP wants to use it, but feel most of these units weren't really optimized to be used that way.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by oldgearguy » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:36 pm

rowsbywoof wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:37 pm
I sometimes feel like I'm one of a very tiny pool of people that just thinks "meh" every time I hear the Bricasti M7. It's of course a wonderful reverb unit, but it doesn't excite me even a little teeny bit. It's one of those times I feel like I just don't hear at all what everyone else does in it.
I know what you're talking about, but I've owned one or more for many years now. A lot of the time it "just works" to add space to synth tracks. It doesn't ever really do the full Lexicon swirly thing, but other than the Quantec QRS, it does that natural reverb as part of the sound better than anything else I've ever owned.

For those times you don't necessarily want a full on effect reverb sound, it's great.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Michael O. » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:25 pm

Soy Sos wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:37 pm
No thoughts on my earlier points on using reverbs in a send>return configuration verses insert?
I get it that's how the OP wants to use it, but feel most of these units weren't really optimized to be used that way.
I can’t actually imagine any scenario where I’d patch reverb in in-series as an insert, other than a live guitar signal chain or something along those lines. All these units have a wet/dry crossfader onboard, but yeah, they should be setup as a 100% wet auxiliary send from a console in almost all applications. Now I see why op wanted true stereo operation.
YashN wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:14 pm

Heard they tweaked the algorithms. There's a fair chance the parameters are the same, but the parameters' end effect on SQ at the same value is different in each version.
Ah, that would make sense. My fear of a behind the scenes algorithm-level change has kept me from upgrading a Lexicon 300 for ages, lol.

This thread makes me want to do a series of videos showcasing a lot of these vintage digital verbs. Not so much a shootout (almost always useless), but more of a general showcase of these units in practical applications.

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by natureclubcassettes » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:56 pm

[/quote]

This thread makes me want to do a series of videos showcasing a lot of these vintage digital verbs. Not so much a shootout (almost always useless), but more of a general showcase of these units in practical applications.
[/quote]

go for it!!

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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by Soy Sos » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:44 pm

Soy Sos wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:37 pm
No thoughts on my earlier points on using reverbs in a send>return configuration verses insert?
I get it that's how the OP wants to use it, but feel most of these units weren't really optimized to be used that way.

"I can’t actually imagine any scenario where I’d patch reverb in in-series as an insert, other than a live guitar signal chain or something along those lines. All these units have a wet/dry crossfader onboard, but yeah, they should be setup as a 100% wet auxiliary send from a console in almost all applications. Now I see why op wanted true stereo operation."

Thanks Michael O, sometimes I think I'm on people's ignore lists!
The other thing I've been playing with is really subtle feedback thru the console.
With a little EQ, it can take on a really weird extra texture and dimension.
Last edited by Soy Sos on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Favorite 80s rack mount digital reverb?

Post by DesolationBlvd » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:49 pm

I've now got a Sony MU-R201 on the way. Is that a step in the right or wrong direction from the Quadraverb? Mainly, I was drawn to the low used price and true stereo. I've heard it has a more natural, if darker, sound than most Eighties reverb units. Hopefully said natural character would be good for the room reverb that my Quadraverb lets me down on.

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