Behringer Mono/Poly!

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kragg
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by kragg » Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 am

Sample & hold is included in several midi kits for the Mono/poly, so i would be surprised if it is missing on the Behringer one.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Thu May 14, 2020 8:45 am

Voltcontrol wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:03 am
Hope more demo's pop-up soon! Also hope some mods (like this: http://synthhacker.blogspot.com/2012/12 ... opoly.html ) are included. :)
tubbutec have a very cool mod kit that adds great features to the voice modes, like having different chords in each key of one side of the keyboard and transposition in the other...also you have more paraphonic modes

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Chopper » Thu May 14, 2020 10:00 am

They nailed it, according to that second demo. And I really dig the size/format. I wish I would have the space tho.....

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Thu May 14, 2020 1:01 pm

Chopper wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:00 am
They nailed it, according to that second demo. And I really dig the size/format. I wish I would have the space tho.....
Which is the second demo? Or do you mean the jams bit....





..... that has been lifted out from the first demo?

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Chopper » Fri May 15, 2020 8:36 am

Ah yes... I didn't ho far with the first full one, as that guy can sometimes get on my nerves...
Anyway, as previously mentioned, the arpeggio there is very convincing to my hears. Mind you, last time i played one was in the 90s...

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by chipaudette » Fri May 15, 2020 11:21 am

Voltcontrol wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:03 am
Hope more demo's pop-up soon! Also hope some mods (like this: http://synthhacker.blogspot.com/2012/12 ... opoly.html ) are included. :)
Hey! Synthhacker here. Thanks for noticing my work!

The part of the Mono/Poly that I hope that they've cloned is the portamento behavior of the original. The original was analog, which meant that each voice has a different glide time. As a result, the individual oscillators became detuned relative to each other during a slide and then got in tune again just as they landed on the final pitch. Sounds GREEEEAAAAAT!

To hear what I'm talking about, check out the first video from my post:


http://synthhacker.blogspot.com/2013/04 ... opoly.html

When I was modding my Polysix, I put portamento into it. I made sure to recreate the behavior that the Mono/Poly exhibits. That's what this video shows.

Do you hear that glorious detuning that occurs during the slide?!? I don't think that any modern synth does this (was really hoping the OB-6 did, but it doesn't). Hopefully Behringer included this on their Monopoly.

Chip

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by jcn7 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:24 pm

"The part of the Mono/Poly that I hope that they've cloned is the portamento behavior of the original. The original was analog, which meant that each voice has a different glide time. As a result, the individual oscillators became detuned relative to each other during a slide and then got in tune again just as they landed on the final pitch. Sounds GREEEEAAAAAT!"

YES! YES! YES! to that statement. That was one of the really cool and great things that set the Mono/poly from many of the others...(except for the OB's, because that's how they sounded as well).

I really hope Behringer has implemented this...and for me will be the deal breaker whether I buy one or not.

I too was sad to see the OB6 not have this...
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by maxwellravitz » Sat May 16, 2020 3:48 pm

hope this will be good, but I anticipate that like all the other clones behringer makes, it won't sound like the original it will just have a similar feature-set.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Sat May 16, 2020 4:01 pm

maxwellravitz wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:48 pm
hope this will be good, but I anticipate that like all the other clones behringer makes, it won't sound like the original it will just have a similar feature-set.
I don´t think this is true for some of them...the model D against a real Mini and the MS1 against the SH101 reveals that they are really close to the originals

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by WaveRider » Sat May 16, 2020 4:25 pm

Christopher Winkels wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:39 pm
oudplayer wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:16 pm
That demo sounds horrible! Nothing close to the richness and timbral variety of the mono/poly I've owned and performed/recorded with for the last 22 years. But, we can't rule out "operator error" for this demo, it doesn't seem the performer figured out what to do with the cross-mod or filter settings.
To my ears this sounds better than the MonoPoly I used to own. Funny how we can arrive at such different conclusions.
same for me. way cleaner

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Sat May 16, 2020 9:09 pm

WaveRider wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:25 pm
Christopher Winkels wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:39 pm
oudplayer wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:16 pm
That demo sounds horrible! Nothing close to the richness and timbral variety of the mono/poly I've owned and performed/recorded with for the last 22 years. But, we can't rule out "operator error" for this demo, it doesn't seem the performer figured out what to do with the cross-mod or filter settings.
To my ears this sounds better than the MonoPoly I used to own. Funny how we can arrive at such different conclusions.
same for me. way cleaner
I used to do studio session keyboard work, around the time that the 'big beasts' of the synthesiser world (CS80, Jupiter 8, DX1 and the like) had started to command prices that meant only very wealthy musicians and studios could afford them (I certainly couldn't). As result, a Jupiter 8, or an Oberheim OBX or a Hammond C3 + Leslie 147 (whatever the producer / band wanted on the track) would get hired in for me to use. Two things became clear.

1. All these instruments sounded amazing
2. There could be considerable variability in how different examples of any one of them sounded compared to each other.

In the early 80's I picked up a Minimoog series D. I liked it well enough to hang onto it for a few years. In that time I got to comparing it with other folks' series D's. It was the same thing - a bunch of Minimoogs - all in good order - could sound different from each other. Sometimes a little bit, sometimes more so. And this is allowing for filter revisions.

What's the point of this aside from a trip down memory lane? The Behringer MonoPoly may sound different from some original MonoPolys, but they can and will sound different from each other.

I recently bought a Behringer Odyssey. it sounds and plays great. Does it sound exactly like an Odyssey I played on a recordings many moons ago? Close enough, especially bearing in mind that when Odyssey's first came out they cost the equivalent of a reasonable family car, and my 'Oddy' or 'Boddy' cost me less than some eurorack modules.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by maxwellravitz » Sat May 16, 2020 10:39 pm

anselmi wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:01 pm
maxwellravitz wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:48 pm
hope this will be good, but I anticipate that like all the other clones behringer makes, it won't sound like the original it will just have a similar feature-set.
I don´t think this is true for some of them...the model D against a real Mini and the MS1 against the SH101 reveals that they are really close to the originals
the model d can sound reminiscent at times, but i don't find the ms1 sounds close to my ears. maybe i'm being too picky from having an sh101 for a long time, but i wouldn't be satisfied by the ms1 if I got rid of my 101. I even find the digital boutique Sh-01a sounds closer than the ms.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by KSS » Sat May 16, 2020 10:46 pm

Blairio wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:09 pm
2. There could be considerable variability in how different examples of any one of them sounded compared to each other.
------
It was the same thing - a bunch of Minimoogs - all in good order - could sound different from each other. Sometimes a little bit, sometimes more so.
------
The Behringer MonoPoly may sound different from some original MonoPolys, but they can and will sound different from each other.
While true to varying degrees, this is too ofen used to excuse poor results in clones. I've never heard a mini that didn't sound immediately like a mini, and I bet you haven't either. Insert most any other target synth and it's the same. Outside of modded versions.
I recently bought a Behringer Odyssey. it sounds and plays great. Does it sound exactly like an Odyssey I played on a recordings many moons ago? Close enough, especially bearing in mind that when Odyssey's first came out they cost the equivalent of a reasonable family car, and my 'Oddy' or 'Boddy' cost me less than some eurorack modules.
Ah, here -as expected- we see -in the added underline- the other side of the story.
This approach tends to amplify that the differences may well be more than the approach above -where all the old analogs of a type already sound different from each other- and suggests that's okay because the clone is-are cheap AKA inexpensive.

This lockstep pair covering of all bases without actually being useful is really common, and often seen. As I already acknowledged there is some truth to the variability of vintage synths. Often it had more to do with care and use than actual differences when freshly serviced.

What is objectionable is this those who may slandering of old synths to justify poor clones.
Edited line to better reflect intended non-personal aim of its point.

Comments here are in response to Blairio's post. Can't say about the Bonopoly until there's something besides Youtube vids to judge with. I know this is yet another common response -that Youtube isn't a fair evaluation for listeners. I'm not trying to promote that. I believe we *can* get a good idea or impression from these videos. But I wouldn't stake a claim on it.
Last edited by KSS on Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by KSS » Sat May 16, 2020 10:58 pm

To amplify something I've promoted often, we sit and listen to the sounds on video or in person, and yet -sometimes or often- have a wildly different *experience* when using said clone. Not what we 'heard'. And it's not because of Youtube quality or lack thereof. That's because there is more to a good clone than being *able* to replicate old original sounds.

Nearly every even halfway decent clone *can* do that.

The 'more' is how we interact with the instrument. And while size and layout-format are an important part of this, they're still only part. Does the clone have the same kind of knob feel and result as the original? Are the sweetspots similar and found in similar ways and places? Ultimately these are going to matter more than an ability to 'coerce' from a clone a reasonable proximity to the old sounds.

Referring back to my just posted earlier reply, *this* 'more' is what unifies even those vintage synths which may have variations, yet in use still feel wholly derived and complete of ther DNA.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Sat May 16, 2020 11:50 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:46 pm
[

This lockstep pair covering of all bases without actually being useful is really common, and often seen. As I already acknowledged there is some truth to the variability of vintage synths. Often it had more to do with care and use than actual differences when freshly serviced.

What is objectionable is this slandering of old synths to justify poor clones.
I haven't slandered anything. Read my post again, carefully.

I made the point that all of the old synths & keyboards I mentioned sounded amazing. No slander there. if anything a touch of hyperbole. Equally there were some synths and keyboards which sounded pretty crap back then, and no better now, despite the revisionist tendencies of some synth lovers.

The point is not that all minimoogs share the same DNA, that is patently true. The point is that the variability in their performance covers a range that comfortably accommodates accurate component or circuit level recreations. I don't use the word 'clone' here because outside of genetics, it is a loaded and derisory term - a cheap shot. The Korg /ARP 2600 could also be seen as a 'clone', or indeed Korg's Odyssey.

As for what is useful, and what is not. If an instrument (regardless of 'predigree') works well in a recorded part or a performance, that is what is useful. The rest is for collectors, dewy eyed romantics and people with unfathomably deep pockets.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by KSS » Sun May 17, 2020 1:06 am

Blairio wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 11:50 pm
I haven't slandered anything. Read my post again, carefully.
It's unfortunate that I didn't better phrase my comment as being a more general response. Instead being seen as solely directed at you. Sorry about that.
I don't use the word 'clone' here because outside of genetics, it is a loaded and derisory term - a cheap shot. The Korg /ARP 2600 could also be seen as a 'clone', or indeed Korg's Odyssey.
I don't consider "clone" to be a cheap shot. Some may use it that way, but it doesn't mean every use is so. The Korg 2600FS and their ODY *are* just as much clones as anything Behringer or anybody else attempting to recreate a prior synth in mostly complete form has been or will be. We can try to play semantics with it and decide to use revision, re-creation, replica, re-do, homage, tribute, etc. But we're still where we started, an attempt to clone an earlier product. The accuracy and purity which come in the literal meaning of clone matter vey much compared to the other word choices.
As for what is useful, and what is not. If an instrument (regardless of 'predigree') works well in a recorded part or a performance, that is what is useful. The rest is for collectors, dewy eyed romantics and people with unfathomably deep pockets.
Now your own position is clearly seen. Who says the only valid "useful" of an instrument is as a recorded part or performance?
The scare quotes around pedigree and your own list of apparently acceptable to you loaded and derisive terms for those who fall outside your own definition says much.

Apparently "clone" is a problem, but " 'pedigree' ", "collectors", "dewy-eyed romantics" and "people with unfathomably deep pockets" are all fair game in your view. Seems maybe slander bias does still remain on the table for you.

edit: I edited the slander line of the earlier post you responded to and added a line to better state its intent. /edit And this one also.
Last edited by KSS on Sun May 17, 2020 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Richard deHove » Sun May 17, 2020 1:45 am

I used to own a Mono/Poly and loved it. I would never buy an old Mono/Poly now because they've become very expensive vintage items. This new model may be a way to recapture the fun I had without the expense and likely maintenance issues of a 35-year-old synth. That is all.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Sun May 17, 2020 3:00 am

maxwellravitz wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:39 pm
anselmi wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:01 pm
maxwellravitz wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:48 pm
hope this will be good, but I anticipate that like all the other clones behringer makes, it won't sound like the original it will just have a similar feature-set.
I don´t think this is true for some of them...the model D against a real Mini and the MS1 against the SH101 reveals that they are really close to the originals
the model d can sound reminiscent at times, but i don't find the ms1 sounds close to my ears. maybe i'm being too picky from having an sh101 for a long time, but i wouldn't be satisfied by the ms1 if I got rid of my 101. I even find the digital boutique Sh-01a sounds closer than the ms.
Agreed. But what it lacks in the comparison it makes up for with its additional features. FM in particular to me.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by doctorvague » Sun May 17, 2020 7:13 am

As a guy who owned two of the originals for years and used them a LOT (see my videos), I have to say this Behringer doesn't capture any of the sound character at all IMO. It sounds really generic by comparison. OTOH I broke out Korg's virtual version a couple of days ago, and while it lacks all the fun of the original interface of course, it sounds quite a bit closer to my ears than the B model does. I'm not saying there's not bang-for-buck or that it wouldn't be useful, but it's a lot more of a "generic synth sound" to my ears than the original.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Sun May 17, 2020 10:31 am

KSS wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:06 am
Blairio wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 11:50 pm
As for what is useful, and what is not. If an instrument (regardless of 'predigree') works well in a recorded part or a performance, that is what is useful. The rest is for collectors, dewy eyed romantics and people with unfathomably deep pockets.
Now your own position is clearly seen. Who says the only valid "useful" of an instrument is as a recorded part or performance?
And there you have it. An instrument is a tool. If it isn't useful, it isn't much use to me. The rest is just the usual blend of fetishism and GAS.

B.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Sun May 17, 2020 10:33 am

KSS wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:06 am
Blairio wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 11:50 pm

As for what is useful, and what is not. If an instrument (regardless of 'predigree') works well in a recorded part or a performance, that is what is useful. The rest is for collectors, dewy eyed romantics and people with unfathomably deep pockets.
Now your own position is clearly seen. Who says the only valid "useful" of an instrument is as a recorded part or performance?


And there you have it. An instrument is a tool. If it isn't useful, it isn't much use to me. The rest is just the usual blend of fetishism and GAS.

B.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Trachea » Sun May 17, 2020 11:32 am

I'm sure someone will eventually upload a proper orignal vs. bonoboly video, or a review without using external effects. Its tough to tell how it really sound with only two videos available.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Sun May 17, 2020 3:47 pm

Trachea wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:32 am
I'm sure someone will eventually upload a proper orignal vs. bonoboly video, or a review without using external effects. Its tough to tell how it really sound with only two videos available.
yes, it will happens
but there is plenty of Boog vs Mini videos showing almost identical sounds and nevertheless you have a lot of people up here claiming that this is not true, so what´s the point?

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Sun May 17, 2020 8:22 pm

anselmi wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:47 pm
Trachea wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:32 am
I'm sure someone will eventually upload a proper orignal vs. bonoboly video, or a review without using external effects. Its tough to tell how it really sound with only two videos available.
yes, it will happens
but there is plenty of Boog vs Mini videos showing almost identical sounds and nevertheless you have a lot of people up here claiming that this is not true, so what´s the point?
I agree. On the basis of my good experience with my Behringer Odyssey, I think the Behringer MonoPoly will be worth a punt. I would like to read or watch an incisive review of it (such as by Nick Batt of Sonic State) before making up my mind.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by maxwellravitz » Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm

I honestly just think behringer is doing themselves a disservice by labeling all these synths as clones over and over. Instead of giving us a point of comparison that they won't quite live up to, they should just make cool sounding synthesizers, which they have been as far as I can tell. They need to drop the idea that they're recreating any of these legendary synths, when they're really just making instruments loosely in the ballpark of what they're imitating, but designing them to be as cheap to manufacture as possible.

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