Behringer Mono/Poly!

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KSS
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by KSS » Mon May 18, 2020 12:56 am

maxwellravitz wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm
I honestly just think behringer is doing themselves a disservice by labeling all these synths as clones over and over. Instead of giving us a point of comparison that they won't quite live up to, they should just make cool sounding synthesizers, which they have been as far as I can tell. They need to drop the idea that they're recreating any of these legendary synths, when they're really just making instruments loosely in the ballpark of what they're imitating, but designing them to be as cheap to manufacture as possible.
Excellent points. I agree.

On the other hand, put yourself in Uli's shoes. He's not going to 'win' either way, from a social standpoint. When he makes a 'named' synth, it's going to be looked at and purchased by those looking for 'that' sound. And some of those will be diasppointed. Some will loudly proclaim how bad it is. Most will just buy it and use it. Statistically speaking this is what happens. A few love, a few hate, and the majority remaining just deal.

When Uli makes an un-named synth, nearly everything above *still* happens. Why wouldn't he go after the extra excitement and free marketing of the named synth?

As Blairio correctly says, there's a *lot* of BS fetishization in synths. It's *not* going to go away. Ever.

Uli Behringer would be crazy -as a businessman- to ignore it. Socially he gets beat up either way. Financially he gains by going for 'named' synths.

Actually, *we* have the easiest choice. Simply do what you suggest. See the synths for what they are, and not for what they're 'supposed' to be. Stick gaffer tape over the name and logo, and enjoy. Or do so without the gaffer tape.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Mon May 18, 2020 1:41 am

KSS wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:56 am
maxwellravitz wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm
I honestly just think behringer is doing themselves a disservice by labeling all these synths as clones over and over. Instead of giving us a point of comparison that they won't quite live up to, they should just make cool sounding synthesizers, which they have been as far as I can tell. They need to drop the idea that they're recreating any of these legendary synths, when they're really just making instruments loosely in the ballpark of what they're imitating, but designing them to be as cheap to manufacture as possible.
Excellent points. I agree.

On the other hand, put yourself in Uli's shoes. He's not going to 'win' either way, from a social standpoint. When he makes a 'named' synth, it's going to be looked at and purchased by those looking for 'that' sound. And some of those will be diasppointed. Some will loudly proclaim how bad it is. Most will just buy it and use it. Statistically speaking this is what happens. A few love, a few hate, and the majority remaining just deal.

When Uli makes an un-named synth, nearly everything above *still* happens. Why wouldn't he go after the extra excitement and free marketing of the named synth?

As Blairio correctly says, there's a *lot* of BS fetishization in synths. It's *not* going to go away. Ever.

Uli Behringer would be crazy -as a businessman- to ignore it. Socially he gets beat up either way. Financially he gains by going for 'named' synths.

Actually, *we* have the easiest choice. Simply do what you suggest. See the synths for what they are, and not for what they're 'supposed' to be. Stick gaffer tape over the name and logo, and enjoy. Or do so without the gaffer tape.
Let's stick to discussing the Bonopoly in this thread, the Behringer practices thread is meant to discuss personal takes on Behringers approach. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=226390&hilit=Behringer&start=1175

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Mon May 18, 2020 1:53 am

maxwellravitz wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm
I honestly just think behringer is doing themselves a disservice by labeling all these synths as clones over and over. Instead of giving us a point of comparison that they won't quite live up to, they should just make cool sounding synthesizers, which they have been as far as I can tell. They need to drop the idea that they're recreating any of these legendary synths, when they're really just making instruments loosely in the ballpark of what they're imitating, but designing them to be as cheap to manufacture as possible.
Does this apply just to Behringer, or perhaps to Roland as well? Apart from the D-05 (a digital re-engineering of a digital synth), the others differ in significant ways from their ancestors. For me the difference is in the form factor and reduced polyphony, rather than outright sound. I have the D-05, JU-06 and JP-08. The D-05 sounds identical to its forebear with the same polyphony. The other two sound close enough, but with only 4 note polyphony. Their names however are a good reference point for the kind of timbres they produce. I think the same goes for the Behringer range.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by gentle_attack » Mon May 18, 2020 11:43 pm

Blairio wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:53 am
maxwellravitz wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm
I honestly just think behringer is doing themselves a disservice by labeling all these synths as clones over and over. Instead of giving us a point of comparison that they won't quite live up to, they should just make cool sounding synthesizers, which they have been as far as I can tell. They need to drop the idea that they're recreating any of these legendary synths, when they're really just making instruments loosely in the ballpark of what they're imitating, but designing them to be as cheap to manufacture as possible.
Does this apply just to Behringer, or perhaps to Roland as well? Apart from the D-05 (a digital re-engineering of a digital synth), the others differ in significant ways from their ancestors. For me the difference is in the form factor and reduced polyphony, rather than outright sound. I have the D-05, JU-06 and JP-08. The D-05 sounds identical to its forebear with the same polyphony. The other two sound close enough, but with only 4 note polyphony. Their names however are a good reference point for the kind of timbres they produce. I think the same goes for the Behringer range.
Roland has basically just re-re-re-released increasingly crippled versions of the JP-8000 engine in vintage looking packages for what, the last ~23yrs?

I mean seriously, all of the VA "boutiques" are just stripped down versions of the original trance machine. JP8k even had the dumbed down versions of the 808 and 909. How the hell does the JP8k have better polyphony than something that came out 20yrs later? Of all the bs Roland has tried to pull, that is the most unbelievable to me.


So no, I wouldn't say that behringer releasing "what the people have wanted" for the last 20 some odd years as being anything like the same as Roland's VA engine in yet another new form factor.
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Prints » Tue May 19, 2020 3:52 am

gentle_attack wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:43 pm
Blairio wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:53 am
maxwellravitz wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm
I honestly just think behringer is doing themselves a disservice by labeling all these synths as clones over and over. Instead of giving us a point of comparison that they won't quite live up to, they should just make cool sounding synthesizers, which they have been as far as I can tell. They need to drop the idea that they're recreating any of these legendary synths, when they're really just making instruments loosely in the ballpark of what they're imitating, but designing them to be as cheap to manufacture as possible.
Does this apply just to Behringer, or perhaps to Roland as well? Apart from the D-05 (a digital re-engineering of a digital synth), the others differ in significant ways from their ancestors. For me the difference is in the form factor and reduced polyphony, rather than outright sound. I have the D-05, JU-06 and JP-08. The D-05 sounds identical to its forebear with the same polyphony. The other two sound close enough, but with only 4 note polyphony. Their names however are a good reference point for the kind of timbres they produce. I think the same goes for the Behringer range.
Roland has basically just re-re-re-released increasingly crippled versions of the JP-8000 engine in vintage looking packages for what, the last ~23yrs?

I mean seriously, all of the VA "boutiques" are just stripped down versions of the original trance machine. JP8k even had the dumbed down versions of the 808 and 909. How the hell does the JP8k have better polyphony than something that came out 20yrs later? Of all the bs Roland has tried to pull, that is the most unbelievable to me.


So no, I wouldn't say that behringer releasing "what the people have wanted" for the last 20 some odd years as being anything like the same as Roland's VA engine in yet another new form factor.
This is nonsense. I’m a huge fan of the Roland System 8.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Tue May 19, 2020 6:44 am

System 8 offers 8 note polyphony - extending the polyphony of the Juno 60/106 models, and the polyphony of the original Juno machines. It also reproduces the FM capabilities of the Jupiter 8 for the JP-08 plug-out, which I don't think the JP8000 offered.

So the System 8 has moved things on from the JP8000, which was a pretty amazing technical achievement for its time.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:50 am

It's an $800 brand new Mono/Poly .... with a warranty. Is it perfect? Nope. Am I perfect? Nope. Not even close. Is this new Behringer close enough for me? Hells yea, baby! The Mono/Poly was my "Minimoog killer" in the 1980s. It was my favorite performance synth, and I reckon it still would be today. I've spent one hell of a lot of money building a normalized modular that has the feature set of the Mono/Poly .... enough that I could probably buy a half dozen of these new little beauties.

Is it identical to the real deal? No, and I don't care ... simply because I could never afford to buy an original and keep it running. Not only that, but like many of us I have plenty of filters and waveshapers and so on to run the VCOs (with their outstanding mod section etc) through those external modular VCFs in my modular gear. So for broke ass bitches like me, willing to compromise my ego for the sake of owning one of these replicas, THIS WILL DO JUST FINE THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!

:)
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Tue May 19, 2020 10:47 am

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:50 am
I've spent one hell of a lot of money building a normalized modular that has the feature set of the Mono/Poly .... enough that I could probably buy a half dozen of these new little beauties.
Likewise (but on a smaller scale), I dedicated 84HP of euro to recreating the ARP Odyssey, including Ring Mod, 12db filter, Hi-Pass filter, AD and ADSR envelopes, S&H and so on - and then I had to recreate all the normalised paths. Turns out that all I really had to do was wait for the Behringer 'Oddy' to come along.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Tue May 19, 2020 3:47 pm

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:50 am
It's an $800 brand new Mono/Poly

is this its real price?

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue May 19, 2020 3:51 pm

No idea ... I was going by the early conjecture in this thread regarding cost.
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Tue May 19, 2020 3:52 pm

Pricing close to the Poly D is my assumption. I'm hoping for less, but am not expecting it.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by gentle_attack » Tue May 19, 2020 5:20 pm

Blairio wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:44 am
System 8 offers 8 note polyphony - extending the polyphony of the Juno 60/106 models, and the polyphony of the original Juno machines. It also reproduces the FM capabilities of the Jupiter 8 for the JP-08 plug-out, which I don't think the JP8000 offered.

So the System 8 has moved things on from the JP8000, which was a pretty amazing technical achievement for its time.
The JP 8000 also "offers 8 note polyphony - extending the polyphony of the Juno 60/106 models, and the polyphony of the original Juno machines. " - which is exactly my point - there is very little improvement / innovation in the core Roland lineup in 20yrs+

What does the System 8 do that the JP8K doesn't? Looks like it has a more extensive effects section (which is fine but not really a factor if you have peds/ rack / VSTs) and it has a vocoder (recycled from the Gaia/ V-Synth). That's pretty much the same thing IMO.


And don't get me wrong I'm saying the JP-8000 was way ahead of it's time more than I'm saying "Roland suxxx". The V-Synth is an awesome synth that is underrated IMO. I am just commenting on the infinite VAs that mimic the relatively simple Jup/Juno / x0x synthesis over and over and over again.
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Wed May 20, 2020 6:05 am

Oh please, let´s back to the MonoPoly talk!

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed May 20, 2020 6:42 am

anselmi wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:05 am
Oh please, let´s back to the MonoPoly talk!
Well, I sure have listened more to below behaviour of the Mono/Poly than is strictly necessary or perhaps even healthy.
Really hope that someone at Behringer reads this and can make sure this behaviour is baked into their upcoming Mono/Poly tribute!
chipaudette wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:21 am

The part of the Mono/Poly that I hope that they've cloned is the portamento behavior of the original. The original was analog, which meant that each voice has a different glide time. As a result, the individual oscillators became detuned relative to each other during a slide and then got in tune again just as they landed on the final pitch. Sounds GREEEEAAAAAT!

To hear what I'm talking about, check out the first video from my post:


http://synthhacker.blogspot.com/2013/04 ... opoly.html

When I was modding my Polysix, I put portamento into it. I made sure to recreate the behavior that the Mono/Poly exhibits. That's what this video shows.

Do you hear that glorious detuning that occurs during the slide?!? I don't think that any modern synth does this (was really hoping the OB-6 did, but it doesn't). Hopefully Behringer included this on their Monopoly.

Chip

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by BugBrand » Wed May 20, 2020 6:47 am

Also the weird-ass initial switch-on/warm-up behaviour - super-wonky tuning responses on the original until everything gets up to temp!

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed May 20, 2020 6:54 am

BugBrand wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:47 am
Also the weird-ass initial switch-on/warm-up behaviour - super-wonky tuning responses on the original until everything gets up to temp!
Sometimes a like button for posts on Muffs would be nice, this being a good example!

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Richard deHove » Wed May 20, 2020 6:57 am

BugBrand wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:47 am
Also the weird-ass initial switch-on/warm-up behaviour - super-wonky tuning responses on the original until everything gets up to temp!
Used to play live with one. We used to allow at least 30 minutes warm up time. If we tried to play too soon we'd have to stop after a few songs and retune as everything drifted apart (also using an MS20 and Pro-One).

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed May 20, 2020 11:09 am

so many cool new synths to fetishize about. the clones are cool, but with all the interesting new models available is this really anything to get super excited about? don’t get me wrong, ive always wanted a monopoly but now im not sure if i would really get much mileage out of it.
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed May 20, 2020 12:00 pm

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:09 am
so many cool new synths to fetishize about. the clones are cool, but with all the interesting new models available is this really anything to get super excited about? don’t get me wrong, ive always wanted a monopoly but now im not sure if i would really get much mileage out of it.
Agreed that it's not super exciting considering whats out there. For me, if it sounds good, it's offering some sonic capabilities I'm currently missing at an attainable price. I am expecting to get plenty of mileage out of it.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed May 20, 2020 12:02 pm

Voltcontrol wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:00 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:09 am
so many cool new synths to fetishize about. the clones are cool, but with all the interesting new models available is this really anything to get super excited about? don’t get me wrong, ive always wanted a monopoly but now im not sure if i would really get much mileage out of it.
Agreed that it's not super exciting considering whats out there. For me, if it sounds good, it's offering some sonic capabilities I'm currently missing at an attainable price. I am expecting to get plenty of mileage out of it.
:tu: hell yeah
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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Thu May 21, 2020 11:02 am


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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by Blairio » Thu May 21, 2020 12:52 pm

anselmi wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:02 am
I guess for me the MonoPoly is like a mid 60's small capacity british or italian sports car*. If you just look its spec, you will wonder what the fuss is about.

Driving / playing it is another matter.

*: I am thinking here about an early Lotus Elan, or Alfa Romeo Spider.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by anselmi » Thu May 21, 2020 3:03 pm

Blairio wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:52 pm
anselmi wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:02 am
I guess for me the MonoPoly is like a mid 60's small capacity british or italian sports car*. If you just look its spec, you will wonder what the fuss is about.

Driving / playing it is another matter.

*: I am thinking here about an early Lotus Elan, or Alfa Romeo Spider.
/

I think the same...this happened to me with the SH-101, which I hesitated to buy for many years no matter my eternal fetish with it...finally I gave up and bought one, but with some fear to get bored...and then the magic happened and I saw why so many people loves it...the most simple square wave thru a filter sounds wonderful and it's highly usable

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by nectarios » Thu May 21, 2020 3:17 pm

Best sounding Behringer synth so far. This has the vibe and the tone. Can't say if this has SSM chips inside but that demo sounds like the 80s.
They're knocking it out of the park.

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Re: Behringer Mono/Poly!

Post by ektoquip » Thu May 21, 2020 3:35 pm

Blairio wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:52 pm
I guess for me the MonoPoly is like a mid 60's small capacity british or italian sports car*. If you just look its spec, you will wonder what the fuss is about.
And there it is, at least for me.
I clearly remember back in the day. These were a form of get-by synth that you might buy if you couldn't afford a 'keyboard rig' which obviously was a big obstacle back then, too. It wasn't exciting back then and i don't see the draw, now.
If people like it, sure, fine. Why not? Sort of an index to the past.
But certainly not for the purists.
Ray Charles said it; I believe it; that settles it.

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