Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

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dBVelocity
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by dBVelocity » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:36 am

I have the 102, 104M SD, 105M,107, 108M and the CP-251.
I don't think there is a firmware update for the 108m and even so that shouldn't affect the midi channel assignment.

I held down both toggle switches, and sent a PC of 1 on channel 7. Green led flash under midi and everything responds on channel 7. Tested several CCs to verify. Repeated with PC of 3 on channel 14. Same response and all works as expected.

I'd look at the devices you're using to send the messages, possibly something is being filtered out or even being sent on channel 1 as an echo? You can grab almost any synth with a midi out and verify that it sends the PC messages (I've seen this as a toggle on some), set the midi channel of the synth to 10 and just switch the presets while holding the 108m switches. If it's still being weird then maybe you'll need to contact moog support.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:49 am

dBVelocity wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:38 am
Well sure, but being a "mode" that is accessed by midi that's relevant to the moog, it's worth a try. Easy to turn it off again should it take.
You were right! What finally worked was sending CC #77 on Midi Channel 10! Confirmed that all the other footswitches I programmed on my Midi Controller that are set to Midi Channel 10 are being received by the Cluster Flux.

THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!
dBVelocity wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:36 am
I have the 102, 104M SD, 105M,107, 108M and the CP-251.
I don't think there is a firmware update for the 108m and even so that shouldn't affect the midi channel assignment.

I held down both toggle switches, and sent a PC of 1 on channel 7. Green led flash under midi and everything responds on channel 7. Tested several CCs to verify. Repeated with PC of 3 on channel 14. Same response and all works as expected.

I'd look at the devices you're using to send the messages, possibly something is being filtered out or even being sent on channel 1 as an echo? You can grab almost any synth with a midi out and verify that it sends the PC messages (I've seen this as a toggle on some), set the midi channel of the synth to 10 and just switch the presets while holding the 108m switches. If it's still being weird then maybe you'll need to contact moog support.
What's weird is now it works changing the Channel via PC message to whatever channel the message is on! Just sent PC 6 on Channel 6 and it's now receiving messages on channel 6. Wonder if sending that CC77 had anything to do with it.

At any rate, thanks so much again, I appreciate you taking the time to help me with this. It's working on any channel of my choosing now.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:58 am

Brian2020 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:55 am
Wow I really need to explore the MIDI capability of my MF-108M (and probably the MF-104M as well).  I hadn’t payed much attention to it and clearly missed some of the things it can do.  Not 100% sure that I have a way to send CC’s.  Looks like I need to hit the books (manuals) tonight and brush up on what these awesome boxes of analog goodness can do when MIDI gets involved.  

I chased down a bunch of these right after hearing about the line being discontinued.  Some really awesome effects but also a big investment that is quite large when they’re all set up next to each other.  The MF-105 MuRF (non-MIDI version) was the one that I got along with the least out of the bunch.  The 101, 102, and 103 are all excellent and weren’t outrageous in price.  The 104M and 108M are killer, but that price - ouch!  The CP-251 is great but the prices have gone up so much that it might not be worth it.  Definitely consider one if you see a good deal though!
Ya there's some really cool stuff with MIDI, tho I'm sure others with more experience can chime in. I intend to program groups of CC's to create patches for the 108 (using my Morningstar MC6 controller), and this will also include Midi Clock Sync On/Off Status so that I can create patches where I want the LFO to be independent of the tempo I'm playing (ie anything from basic chorus and vibratos, to using my Source Audio Reflex to sweep LFO rate cc's via midi).

Also has some other cool things like the delay time expander for lofi grimed up repeats and feedback which I explored today. It seems like you can use midi notes to change the delay time (so you can have a sequencer essentially playing a custom LFO pattern, or with the feedback cranked it can play the delay like an oscillator), and a few other cool things like Spillover mode, LFO subdivisions when set to midi clock, hidden 8th LFO, and response to Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel.

Have the 102 and 103 incoming, very tempted by the 105M midi murf as well. I'll hold off on the delay cos that's just too high for me (and I'm pretty satisfied with my Thermae...which is about 1/3 of the price on used market). CP-251 is tempting, but being a guitarist I kinda dig using my Source Audio Reflex to modulate via expression sweeps and it's built-in LFOs...tho it would obv be lots of fun to use with synths.

Glad I went down this path, and made the decision to sell off a bunch of other gear to do it without regrets.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by dBVelocity » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:28 am

Glad it's working for you. I do wish I had the 103...I was starting to think they'd do a midi version of it then next thing I know they're all cancelled, so maybe someday I'll get there but it's nice having what I have. I also have the Minitaur so I got a ladder filter there and made a passive patchbay for it I call "Passiphae".(the VCA input has to be reassigned so as not to drone with a patchbay hookup or maybe you want the VCA open for using the filter like a pedal.)

The 105m does seem not so versatile at the face but it does have really sweet uses, and I tend to use it more than the 102 now.. but it is indeed a fixed bank of filters so on pattern 1 in bass mode you can pull all sliders down and use the left most as a basic LPF. Using it in midi note mode is very excellent as you essentially play the bands and can sustain with the notes overriding the env setting. I also personally like to modulate the ENV and blend the mix subtlety just giving a tonal accent that steps with the clock and has a patterned timbre.
The 107 is a crazy super fun tone with guitar. A little tricky to track but what works is you blend the mix, set it in sync mode and use a classic expression pedal to actively bend the frequency input to be relative to the pitch of the guitar i.e. Low freq= low notes and higher freq for high notes. Tracking manually allows for better sync to what you play, it's sort of like a fuzz but also not really. It's having the oscillator buzz in a frequency tracking manner layered in and the moog osc is quite gnarly! I think this one gets overlooked.

You'll notice that the power for these pedals has to be the original wall wart or good isolated supplies like the voodoo power rigs with the correct polarity connectors. The 105m I think draws more power too. There are threads on moog forums about it. Trying other pedal chain power results in a very noisy experience.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by rowsbywoof » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:11 am

Always sad I never grabbed more of these. I bought the ring mod and delay when they were still labeled Big Briar, and always wanted the Phaser, but just kept putting them off. At least that pedal is still on the lower side of the lot. Clusterflux looks amazing. All of them are damn near classics. Moog made the original set for nearly 20 years, so I definitely get pulling the plug. I’m sure sales the last few years were slower than previously and there was a healthy used market. They’ll all be well regarded in the future, I’m sure. Doubt anyone will lose money, even at today’s prices, on MoogerFoogers.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:26 am

dBVelocity wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:28 am
Glad it's working for you. I do wish I had the 103...I was starting to think they'd do a midi version of it then next thing I know they're all cancelled, so maybe someday I'll get there but it's nice having what I have. I also have the Minitaur so I got a ladder filter there and made a passive patchbay for it I call "Passiphae".(the VCA input has to be reassigned so as not to drone with a patchbay hookup or maybe you want the VCA open for using the filter like a pedal.)

The 105m does seem not so versatile at the face but it does have really sweet uses, and I tend to use it more than the 102 now.. but it is indeed a fixed bank of filters so on pattern 1 in bass mode you can pull all sliders down and use the left most as a basic LPF. Using it in midi note mode is very excellent as you essentially play the bands and can sustain with the notes overriding the env setting. I also personally like to modulate the ENV and blend the mix subtlety just giving a tonal accent that steps with the clock and has a patterned timbre.
The 107 is a crazy super fun tone with guitar. A little tricky to track but what works is you blend the mix, set it in sync mode and use a classic expression pedal to actively bend the frequency input to be relative to the pitch of the guitar i.e. Low freq= low notes and higher freq for high notes. Tracking manually allows for better sync to what you play, it's sort of like a fuzz but also not really. It's having the oscillator buzz in a frequency tracking manner layered in and the moog osc is quite gnarly! I think this one gets overlooked.

You'll notice that the power for these pedals has to be the original wall wart or good isolated supplies like the voodoo power rigs with the correct polarity connectors. The 105m I think draws more power too. There are threads on moog forums about it. Trying other pedal chain power results in a very noisy experience.
Thanks for all the sound design tips! The Midi Murf seems like it can be pushed a lot with all the cc control's too. Besides my Monrningstar Midi controller, I also can use my Source Audio Reflex to control up to 3 midi cc's at any time via expression or LFO (which has choice of shape, depth, speed and can sync to clock). Part of my interest in it besides the pattern-based stuff, is to create some grimey sounding filter wah settings by modulating the sweep and different frequency bands too. Could be fun modulating the envelope via expression as well.

The 107 always intrigued me, but it's hard to find good demos of it (I've prob watched them all). I do have a Copilot FX Orbit which is using a similar principle. It has a VCO which you can modulate via expression, plus a square wave fuzz, and you can blend those plus your dry signal. It's pretty sweet, but prob nothing as cool as the 107.

Here's a little sample:
https://soundcloud.com/jon-dom/sets/copilot-fx-orbit

I also own a Phase Loop Locked pedal from Montreal Assembly called Purpll that uses a different type of design, but also enables some "synth-esque" guitar sounds. That thing is really cool. And I have a Source Audio C4 which is a digital synth pedal that tracks really good and is very flexible for creating all sorts of synth sounds with guitar. Basically need to decide what's gonna make the big-board.

Totally good on using the 9V Center positive power supplies. I also have some voodoo labs reverse polarity cables to plug into my strymon zuma so it can see up 500ma isolated current per moogerfooger.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by kxx303 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:38 am

Maybe someone here knows how to adjust a “drive” amount to give a 105m an extra headroom? My unit starts to overdrive very easily, led goes red from about half a “drive” knob turn. Since 105m is last in my chain, low amount of “drive” makes overall signal quieter. Not a big problem, but maybe there is a solution.
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by dBVelocity » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:21 pm

Gain staging is an area that I have to adjust depending on the chain chosen. It takes a bit of work to dial properly. Try and lower some of the signal prior to the 105 and adjust the amplifier or gain on the mixer.

It's worth noting on this subject that the 102 drive is always active despite being in bypass mode.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by gentle_attack » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm

I think they were overpriced to start off with (though designed to last for 100yrs so that's a plus) but these discontinued prices are absolutely ridiculous. You can buy a MN skiff and then build a whole row that does more, vs 2 foogers and the CP-251.

I thank Moog for crossing me over from Phatty's and guitars to modular, but they're just not practical and the jacks on the back are not conducive to wiggling

Don't get me started on the 104-m which was billed as the "end all" analog delay... it can't do anything without being connected to a DAW or something that can turn on and off modes with CCs (Octatrack was what I used before I sold it). To have am "Analog Delay" with "Tap Tempo" that you can't even send an analog clock to, nor when you're manually tapping can you turn on "dotted eighths" without sending CC messages, that are forgotten after power off. It ended up feeling like a really expensive VST. Oh yeah and the clockable LFO... of course you can't tap that and send to other 'foogers... it's internal only. You can't even sync the tempo and modulation at the same time with tapping, you have to tap the time, hold the switch to switch to modulation, then tap again. Even with CC you can't do both at the same time. It's inexplicable and unforgivable.


If you like the MF-101... I'd recommend just buying a M-32, pretty much does it all and then a lot more. Obviously if you're just slappin da bass the 101 is nice to have the footswtich, but paying $369 (reverb used) for a mono Moog LPF in a stompbox is not a good deal, to me at least.
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by donato » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:27 pm

gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
Don't get me started on the 104-m which was billed as the "end all" analog delay... it can't do anything without being connected to a DAW or something that can turn on and off modes with CCs (Octatrack was what I used before I sold it). To have am "Analog Delay" with "Tap Tempo" that you can't even send an analog clock to, nor when you're manually tapping can you turn on "dotted eighths" without sending CC messages, that are forgotten after power off. It ended up feeling like a really expensive VST. Oh yeah and the clockable LFO... of course you can't tap that and send to other 'foogers... it's internal only. You can't even sync the tempo and modulation at the same time with tapping, you have to tap the time, hold the switch to switch to modulation, then tap again. Even with CC you can't do both at the same time. It's inexplicable and unforgivable
I guess?? What would you replace it with? I had a non-midi "z" version many years ago and it was also fantastic. I just started getting into the midi stuff after having the M for a few years. Most of the time I wouldn't want things to sync up perfectly anyway. To me the midi aspect is just gravy. It's about the sound. What else is out there that sounds as good?

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by rowsbywoof » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:38 pm

donato wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:27 pm
gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
Don't get me started on the 104-m which was billed as the "end all" analog delay... it can't do anything without being connected to a DAW or something that can turn on and off modes with CCs (Octatrack was what I used before I sold it). To have am "Analog Delay" with "Tap Tempo" that you can't even send an analog clock to, nor when you're manually tapping can you turn on "dotted eighths" without sending CC messages, that are forgotten after power off. It ended up feeling like a really expensive VST. Oh yeah and the clockable LFO... of course you can't tap that and send to other 'foogers... it's internal only. You can't even sync the tempo and modulation at the same time with tapping, you have to tap the time, hold the switch to switch to modulation, then tap again. Even with CC you can't do both at the same time. It's inexplicable and unforgivable
I guess?? What would you replace it with? I had a non-midi "z" version many years ago and it was also fantastic. I just started getting into the midi stuff after having the M for a few years. Most of the time I wouldn't want things to sync up perfectly anyway. To me the midi aspect is just gravy. It's about the sound. What else is out there that sounds as good?
A bit different, and I have a 104, so don’t get me wrong... I love it and wouldn’t part with it, but probably my favorite, playable, delay is the BugBrand PTDelay. Just fantastic sounding on everything and a joy to use and tweak. It won’t save you too much, price wise, but I wouldn’t part with my PTDelay ever.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:00 pm

gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
I think they were overpriced to start off with (though designed to last for 100yrs so that's a plus) but these discontinued prices are absolutely ridiculous. You can buy a MN skiff and then build a whole row that does more, vs 2 foogers and the CP-251.

I thank Moog for crossing me over from Phatty's and guitars to modular, but they're just not practical and the jacks on the back are not conducive to wiggling

Don't get me started on the 104-m which was billed as the "end all" analog delay... it can't do anything without being connected to a DAW or something that can turn on and off modes with CCs (Octatrack was what I used before I sold it). To have am "Analog Delay" with "Tap Tempo" that you can't even send an analog clock to, nor when you're manually tapping can you turn on "dotted eighths" without sending CC messages, that are forgotten after power off. It ended up feeling like a really expensive VST. Oh yeah and the clockable LFO... of course you can't tap that and send to other 'foogers... it's internal only. You can't even sync the tempo and modulation at the same time with tapping, you have to tap the time, hold the switch to switch to modulation, then tap again. Even with CC you can't do both at the same time. It's inexplicable and unforgivable.


If you like the MF-101... I'd recommend just buying a M-32, pretty much does it all and then a lot more. Obviously if you're just slappin da bass the 101 is nice to have the footswtich, but paying $369 (reverb used) for a mono Moog LPF in a stompbox is not a good deal, to me at least.
I think you're correct on the cost/benefit if you're primarily using it with a Eurorack setup or on a table with synths and samplers. For me as a guitarist, the Moogerfoogers offer a somewhat modular approach to sound design within a pedal platform, and are capable of pushing the limits a bit more than most analog guitar effects. Since my hands are a bit tied haha, MIDI Control and Expression pedals are how I'm able to change sounds and settings on the fly.

In case you're interested, the Morningstar MC-6 and MC-8, Disaster Area Midi Baby 3, and RJM Mastermind LT and GT series are all highly programmable midi controllers designed for floor use, and sending batches of messages with 1 button push (which lets you program patches as well to go back to your favorite settings). I just got the 108M Cluster Flux 2 days ago, and immediately set up buttons on the MC-6 to change the delay time expander, midi clock sync on/off, and LFO subdivisions thus far.

Sucks that prices are more than what they went for new, though that's with pretty much any desirable piece of gear that's been discontinued...I mean people spend $2k on original Klons, $15k on vintage U47's, not to say collectors pieces. I was lucky to find a mint shape 108M on the lower side of the used market, and a new-in-box 102 and 103 from a synth shop for about the used rate. Obviously they're not cheap, but for analog pedals of that caliber, build quality, features, and extreme sonic capabilities, they're still at the top of the heap.

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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by dBVelocity » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:24 pm

gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
Don't get me started on the 104-m which was billed as the "end all" analog delay... it can't do anything without being connected to a DAW or something that can turn on and off modes with CCs (Octatrack was what I used before I sold it). To have am "Analog Delay" with "Tap Tempo" that you can't even send an analog clock to, nor when you're manually tapping can you turn on "dotted eighths" without sending CC messages, that are forgotten after power off. It ended up feeling like a really expensive VST. Oh yeah and the clockable LFO... of course you can't tap that and send to other 'foogers... it's internal only. You can't even sync the tempo and modulation at the same time with tapping, you have to tap the time, hold the switch to switch to modulation, then tap again. Even with CC you can't do both at the same time. It's inexplicable and unforgivable.
This sounds like you do want to get started.. Lol. It is a spendy unit. The inflation just makes me want to hold on to it. I don't use it everywhere because I don't feel that everything needs delay. When I do use it I add just enough and it works as a delay as advertised. Nice lush BBD. I don't fault others for feeling like it should be more, I wish the LFO wasn't strictly dedicated but it's there and I have other modulation sources to tap.

The rear panel jacks makes sense for guitar rigs, I wouldn't want patch cables sticking out on a pedal board. It would be a nightmare and the majority would be displeased.

I opted to mount my pedals upright at a desk for some time which served me well, but now it's all in a case that I made a locking tilt panel for.
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by gentle_attack » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 am

donato wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:27 pm
gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
Don't get me started on the 104-m
I guess?? What would you replace it with? I had a non-midi "z" version many years ago and it was also fantastic. I just started getting into the midi stuff after having the M for a few years. Most of the time I wouldn't want things to sync up perfectly anyway. To me the midi aspect is just gravy. It's about the sound. What else is out there that sounds as good?
Electro Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man with Tap Tempo, I have one of the original ones with NOS Panasonic 4xmn3005 chips. I really hate to get into the "this chip is better than that chip" but this is the best sounding delay I've ever used, and not only that but it's the best for everything. The best for short delays, the best for ambient long delays, the best for tap tempo rhythmic stuff, and it has an amazing MUSICAL modulation unlike the Moog which just annihilates the echoes with more than a microscopic amount of depth.
dBVelocity wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:24 pm
gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
Don't get me started on the 104-m
This sounds like you do want to get started.. Lol. It is a spendy unit.
Haha I could go on for longer :). It's just a big old disappointment for $700 much less whatever they are going for now $1200 for the regular one? i got one for $600 used and sold it for $850. My only regret is not sitting on it for longer since the prices just keep going up.

There is cool stuff you an do with the CV, but the Moogerfooger echosystem doesn't have VCAs or other basic modular building blocks, and to me at least, once you're into "delay for sound design" you are either drawing CCs in a DAW or you're in Eurorack, and once you're in Eurorack I simply can't justify a mono delay that is worth $1000+
jondom22 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:00 pm
gentle_attack wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:09 pm
I think they were overpriced to start off with (though designed to last for 100yrs so that's a plus) but these discontinued prices are absolutely ridiculous. You can buy a MN skiff and then build a whole row that does more, vs 2 foogers and the CP-251...

If you like the MF-101... I'd recommend just buying a M-32, pretty much does it all and then a lot more. Obviously if you're just slappin da bass the 101 is nice to have the footswtich, but paying $369 (reverb used) for a mono Moog LPF in a stompbox is not a good deal, to me at least.
I think you're correct on the cost/benefit if you're primarily using it with a Eurorack setup or on a table with synths and samplers. For me as a guitarist, the Moogerfoogers offer a somewhat modular approach to sound design within a pedal platform, and are capable of pushing the limits a bit more than most analog guitar effects. Since my hands are a bit tied haha, MIDI Control and Expression pedals are how I'm able to change sounds and settings on the fly.

In case you're interested, the Morningstar MC-6 and MC-8, Disaster Area Midi Baby 3, and RJM Mastermind LT and GT series are all highly programmable midi controllers designed for floor use,

Obviously they're not cheap, but for analog pedals of that caliber, build quality, features, and extreme sonic capabilities, they're still at the top of the heap.
Moogerfoogers are built to last and are pro-spec top to bottom, and honestly they fit with the funionality of Moog's orignal modualr systems, I guess I'm just spoiled rotten from Euro. I'm looking at a Echophon (which to a lot of people is massively outdated, and to be fair is digital). It and be tapped into manually or with an analog clock, it's not only go dubvivisions on the repeats from said tempo input, but can even turn that into a clock to send elsewhere. It's got two feedback loops, with a crossfader. It's got "Freeze" and it's got a v/oct pitchshifter. That's a modular delay.

The 104-m has all those jacks in the back but they're very tough to use and the modulation except at the lowest of depths was too destructive to use for anything musical, and at the end of the day you need midi to use the pedal anyways. I get that if you have a midi foot controller you can do a lot with this pedal, and the strymons, and other high tech Sharc DSPs... but it's just too expensive for me for one trick pony, when you can get the creme de la creme DMMwTT that sounds AMAZING for everything and has useable modulation.
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 pm

Brand spanking new 102 and 103 arrived to accompany the 108M.
So far here's my thoughts (mostly as guitarist):

108 is a chorus and flanger and vibrato and feedback glitch machine for people who want to do anything from slutty 70s/80s RnB and Rock sounds, to Sonic Youth and whatever experimentation you can think of. It really opens up as you push the feedback, and use Midi CCs for expanding the delay times which is where it gets awesome and weird. I really enjoy the fact that it's informative as to how you are designing the sounds, as opposed to standard chorus and flanger pedals (ie negative feedback, with this much modulation, sounds like this at this delay time, and works best with fuzz, or clean, etc). Also, the fully wet pitch vibrato is soooo perfect, sounds amazing on both guitars and synth for a lofi kinda vibe (esp if you crank the drive), or using some fast LFO modulation on triangle setting for telephone style bleep bloop. I think it's my fav pedal.

102 is THE sound I've long wanted from my ring mod. I love my EHX Ring Thing, which has been gigged and stomped on for the last 8 or 9 years, but there's something so warm but biting with the 102. I also at one point tried the Fairfield Circuitry Randy's Revenge, and while the bell tones were very beautiful, I felt that it kinda muffled and strangulated any dirt and fuzz pedals that went into it. Whereas the 102 is open and loves dirt! Besides it's tone, I had some fun using the internal SQ LFO pretty fast and then using my SA Reflex to control the freq via expression sweeps and a slower sine LFO for dual modulation sources. Then I used an S&H LFO from the Reflex and that was badass. Prob gonna hook it up to a Midi-CV box like the OCD.CV so I can create "patches" and also do things like modulate the same knob with multiple midi cc assignments on the Reflex (ie SA Midi 1 = Frequency CC sweeping with expression, SA Midi 2 = Frequency CC with Sq LFO set to 1/8 note via midi clock).

103 - I've never been much of a phaser guy, as they've always kinda bored me after a little playing. But playing the 103 this afternoon and experimenting with that has shown me a lot of the sounds a good quality phaser that isn't dumbed can be capable of reproducing. My first thought on it is that it really excels with being fed a nice fuzz pedal, or fat saw wave synth. 2nd impression is that you really can keep the LFO Amount and Resonance lower than anticipated to get the effect you want. Had a lot of fun also play with some gated fuzz staccato picking for a vocal formant type of autowah sound. Sweeping the the sweep via expression is really sick, especially on 12stage mode and by limiting the heel/toe positions to a range that works best with your instrument. Also fed the sweep input a separate LFO from the Reflex for a bi-phase sound, but couldn't quite get it yet. Lo LFO rate switch is the shit and I really dig the lower and medium settings. Still working on balancing all the knobs on the fast settings for a sonic youth kinda thing. Faux ring mod sounds were cool too.

Midi Murf en route. I'm thinking there's a chance it may be able to cover enough of the 103 that I could just use it, but then again the use of both might be worth having them together. Currently thinking signal flow...

Fuzz/Dirt/PLL >
Chase Bliss Mood >
102 Ring Mod >
108M Cluster Flux >
103 Phaser (I initially had phaser before Cluster Flux, but kinda would rather have the filtering afterwards) >
Chromatron LPF return >
Particle V2 Glitch/Delay >
Radical Delay DX >
Chase Bliss Thermae >
105M Midi Murf (figured it might be cool doing last and after delays just to have something different, and also take advantage of it's stereo capabilities for recording).

jondom22
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:45 pm

dBVelocity wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:24 pm
I opted to mount my pedals upright at a desk for some time which served me well, but now it's all in a case that I made a locking tilt panel for.
That's a sick setup! Saw you had the Midi Murf and had a question for you re CCs for the filter position. Reading the manual, it first seemed like you can use CCs for adjusting the filters on the fly, or for incorporating into macros midi commands for "patches" I'd want to create. However, in re-reading the manual, the language indicates that sending CC info to any of the filters might stop the sequence, and that it can't override the the position of the physical fader? Tough to understand that section as it wasn't written very clearly, and I can't seem to find a good demo on this specific use of Midi with the 105M.

jondom22
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:14 pm

Got the Midi Murf today. Had a couple of hours to play with it, and set up some CCs on my midi controller to change between bass/mids and rate subdivisions, as well as send it midi clock. It definitely does some really cool filter bank pattern stuff, and seems most adept for live use on a table top plugged into a synth, drum machine or sampler to play with the envelope, filter gains, and subdivisions. Gonna keep messing with it with guitar for a bit to see if it will make the pedalboard, but my feeling is that while it certainly does some cool things with guitar, it does feel a little bit too similar without being able to adjust things with your hands on the fly. Will also try it out synths/drums/samples to see if it's something I'd like to keep for studio use.

Having really enjoyed playing with the cluster flux, I'm actually extremely intrigued by the 104M because it seems like you can really push the limits of what is capable in a delay pedal. The downside is that it's extremely expensive so it will take finding a good deal on one magically, and prob having to sell my Tonal Recall and some other items I wasn't intending on initially.

I've also been missing having LFO controlled LPF. I've been enjoying my 3 leaf chromatron for envelope and filter sweep duties, but have been thinking bout grabbing a prometheus deluxe again, or poss an MF-101 with the cutoff plugged into my Reflex or a CV LFO pedal like the one from copilot fx.

Def loving the 108M, 102 and 103 and will be holding onto those, and am likely gonna put those all on the big board.

mor4sso
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by mor4sso » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:47 pm

103 is DEFINITELY the unsung hero of the whole line. I have two (one for sale if anyone is interested :party:) It's certainly overshadowed by the 104 and 108.

Scoop a CP251 if you can also. Adds so much to the whole Moogerfooger setup. Such an amazing little modular setup.

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dBVelocity
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by dBVelocity » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:10 pm

mor4sso wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:47 pm
103 is DEFINITELY the unsung hero of the whole line. I have two (one for sale if anyone is interested :party:)
SOLD!

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fac
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by fac » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:01 pm

I've owned the 103 for 8 years, and just recently got the 101 and 102 as I've wanted the original trio for a long time. I was able to get them for a decent price (slightly below $300 each). The 101 sounds amazing, just what one would expect from moog. I still have to try the 102 but I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

I'm not sure if I want more foogers. I'd love a delay and a clusteflux but they're insanely expensive. Not so sure about the MuRFs or Freqbox.

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moremagic
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by moremagic » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:48 am

i got rid of mine for euro, kept the 101 and 251 though. the preamp on the 151 is just so warm, love running drums through it

mor4sso
Common Wiggler
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by mor4sso » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:07 am

fac wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:01 pm
I'd love a delay and a clusteflux but they're insanely expensive.
Matriarch has a great delay that, in some ways, is better than the 104. If you want to spend an extra 600-800ish past the going rate of MF104s, but you'll also have a great synth attached to it :P

Minifooger Delay is also a great, cheaper alternative. I ended up selling my 104 because I actually prefer the timbre of the Minifooger delay.

jondom22
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Re: Bout to take the plunge...Moogerfoogers

Post by jondom22 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:52 pm

guitar noise machine work in progress. slut level code blue

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