Phasers

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comesect nocisum
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Phasers

Post by comesect nocisum » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:29 am

what are some 12 to 16 stage phasers out there you have used and loved? im about 24 hrs from throwing a load at a doppelganger with a slow lfo switch....
this is probably the best phaser ive heard yet havent had a response back from builder

:ripbanana:

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lionel
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Re: Phasers

Post by lionel » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:44 am

Moogerfooger MF-103 is my way to go (for phasing + sound designing percussion stuff)

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tron23
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Re: Phasers

Post by tron23 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:48 am

Jürgen Haible Tau "Pipe" phaser sounds good.

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Re: Phasers

Post by nuromantix » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:50 am

I like my Roland PH830.

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Rost + Licht
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Re: Phasers

Post by Rost + Licht » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:40 am

Ensoniq DP4 / EPS/ASR 10, Alesis ModFx

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doombient.music
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Re: Phasers

Post by doombient.music » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:42 am

nuromantix wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:50 am
I like my Roland PH830.
Same here.

I'll throw in Mutron Biphase and Compact Phasing A, even though they are neither12- nor 16-stage phasers.

Stephen

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Re: Phasers

Post by BWBKc6VyUr » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:55 am

It’s only 6 stages, and I don’t actually own one yet, but think the demos of the Oakley MOSPhaser are very promising
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Re: Phasers

Post by oldgearguy » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:36 am

I always thought the PH-830 sounded a bit tame compared to the later Roland SPH-323.
Back in the day I ended up keeping the SPH-323, Shulte Compact Phasing A, and a Bi-Phase.

Currently, I just have the Tau Pipe and the Deep Equinoxe phasers in modular format and the RSP-550 rack unit which has a very nice Jet Phaser patch (with a lot of editing flexibility).

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anselmi
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Re: Phasers

Post by anselmi » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:28 am

tron23 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:48 am
Jürgen Haible Tau "Pipe" phaser sounds good.
yes, but too expensive for a phaser
I think there is a too high profit on this based on the krautrock phaser fame

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Re: Phasers

Post by Xomrys » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:40 am

My favorite which I unfortunately sold, is the Castle phaser, anyone else heard of it? 4,6,8 stage, very clean and versatile sound.
I think the Roland sph-323 is the closest equivalent.
But they are not clones. Castle was based on SSM filters.

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Re: Phasers

Post by snakejaw » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:54 am

I love my MF-103. I'm considering getting a second one. The JMT PHW-16 in video looks really interesting. Does anyone have any experience using one?

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Re: Phasers

Post by doombient.music » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:11 pm

oldgearguy wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:36 am
I always thought the PH-830 sounded a bit tame compared to the later Roland SPH-323.[...]
Funny you mention the 323 -- when I tried one out, I thought it was pretty bland and lacking the vowely squelchiness of the 830. The 323 reminded me of the Phase Shifter module in the System 100m -- useful but not exactly overwhelming.

Stephen

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tron23
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Re: Phasers

Post by tron23 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:34 pm

Xomrys wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:40 am
My favorite which I unfortunately sold, is the Castle phaser, anyone else heard of it? 4,6,8 stage, very clean and versatile sound.
I think the Roland sph-323 is the closest equivalent.
But they are not clones. Castle was based on SSM filters.
Could you share any more info or demos of this Castle phaser? :guinness:

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Re: Phasers

Post by Dave Peck » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:17 pm

My favorite is definitely the Rob Hordijk Dual Phaser. Two 8-stage phasers that can be routed in parallel or serial, can be controlled from a common CV source or used independently, each phaser has a mix control with both positive and inverted phaser mix, separate feedback controls, and each has a switch that modulates the fc of all bands together (they all sweep up and down together, like a normal phaser) or causes the upper and lower bands to spread apart and pull together under CV control for some unique effects like vowels. It sounds absolutely spectacular.

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Re: Phasers

Post by Flareless » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:22 pm

I like the Oakley Deep Equinox but for getting weird I enjoy the MFOS 8 Stage Phase Shifter.

Here is a comparison I did between the two a while back



and here was a quick demo I made for a customer of the MFOS prototype



More info is available here
Rich

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What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound - Neil Peart

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Re: Phasers

Post by KSS » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:44 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:17 pm
My favorite is definitely the Rob Hordijk Dual Phaser. Two 8-stage phasers that can be routed in parallel or serial, can be controlled from a common CV source or used independently, each phaser has a mix control with both positive and inverted phaser mix, separate feedback controls, and each has a switch that modulates the fc of all bands together (they all sweep up and down together, like a normal phaser) or causes the upper and lower bands to spread apart and pull together under CV control for some unique effects like vowels. It sounds absolutely spectacular.
From your description, it does indeed 'sound' spectacular. Hordijk modules are just so well conceived.

Going with the ARP Quadra 14 stage design for ny new module set. But your description has me wanting a dual set up lijke yours. ;)

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Re: Phasers

Post by Xomrys » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:38 pm

tron23 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:34 pm
Xomrys wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:40 am
My favorite which I unfortunately sold, is the Castle phaser, anyone else heard of it? 4,6,8 stage, very clean and versatile sound.
I think the Roland sph-323 is the closest equivalent.
But they are not clones. Castle was based on SSM filters.
Could you share any more info or demos of this Castle phaser? :guinness:
This should give a good idea of its basic sound with resonance:


The sweep range, LFO rate range etc. are huge. LFO from many seconds, to audio range. It can also do very subtle phasing, which the video does not show.

I had the 'single' rack version. It seems it came in all kinds of form factors, rack and pedal (with same electronics).

more info: http://www.modezero.com/castle-III.htm.. Here says "later versions were based on the SSM2040". Mine definitely had the SSM chips. It is curious that there may also have been a discrete design.

comesect nocisum
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Re: Phasers

Post by comesect nocisum » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:12 pm

Thanks for the input/videos, going to check them out.

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Re: Phasers

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:27 pm

“PHASERS”
D9F01E18-AACC-4EE9-B576-DEFDBAA42DE5.jpeg
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TOO FAR GONE

comesect nocisum
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Re: Phasers

Post by comesect nocisum » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:26 am

now I feel like I'm back on I love fuzz with picture humour lol, thanks.

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Re: Phasers

Post by doombient.music » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:41 am

Xomrys wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:38 pm
[...]

This should give a good idea of its basic sound with resonance:


The sweep range, LFO rate range etc. are huge. LFO from many seconds, to audio range. It can also do very subtle phasing, which the video does not show.

I had the 'single' rack version. It seems it came in all kinds of form factors, rack and pedal (with same electronics).

more info: http://www.modezero.com/castle-III.htm.. Here says "later versions were based on the SSM2040". Mine definitely had the SSM chips. It is curious that there may also have been a discrete design.
Amazing. Nyle Steiner's String Filter came to mind when listening to this.

Stephen

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tron23
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Re: Phasers

Post by tron23 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:47 am

Xomrys, thanks for sharing the info about this gem.

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Re: Phasers

Post by oldgearguy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:18 am

doombient.music wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:11 pm
oldgearguy wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:36 am
I always thought the PH-830 sounded a bit tame compared to the later Roland SPH-323.[...]
Funny you mention the 323 -- when I tried one out, I thought it was pretty bland and lacking the vowely squelchiness of the 830. The 323 reminded me of the Phase Shifter module in the System 100m -- useful but not exactly overwhelming.

Stephen
My "tame" description was not necessarily a bad thing. It was more polite, less in your face kind of thing. Sometimes exactly what you need.

One important thing to note about the SPH-323 is that the photo-couplers used in the stages can go bad. If one or more does go bad, it will still sound like a phaser, but not nearly as strong/present as with all of them working. Unfortunately, when I had one in for repair some years ago, I could not find a modern substitute. Unless you compare one side-by-side with a working one, you may never notice the problem, until you try to calibrate it and then you'll find out. If one does go bad, you can swap out the photo-coupler used in the volume control area and that usually is OK.

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Re: Phasers

Post by KSS » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:45 pm

Do you have a photo of one of the old couplers used in the unit?

The old optocouplers used lamps, and these burn out. It's not too hard to replace the lamp. Open it up and see what's there. Much easier than trying to replace an LED in a Vactrol. The CdS side rarely goes bad.

Edit: Grabbed a VTL3A47 lamp style Vactrol from the parts bin. It's about the size of a 2/3 AAA battery. The length is a clue to the incandescent lamp inside. Of course having the words "lamp" and "cell" om opposite ends is also pretty hard to mistake!

Before LEDs existed or were in wide use this style of optical coupling was common. It's seen often in old organs where it's discretely realized. Arranged on the PCB with a lamp in the center of four CdS cells. Then covered to keep ambient light out. JHaible duplicated this arrangement in his Krautrock Phaser. As also seen in the original he patterned his after. Buchla did also use this discrete arrangement.

With the passing of original Vactrols -and the differences still seen in thier supposed replacements- it's useful to know how to make your own.
------------
Something worth knowing and thinking about for modern designs is the difference in speed between an incandescent lamp and an LED. With the newer Vactrols seeming to fall short of the classics no longer available, consider using a lamp instead in your homegrown optocouplers."

*VacTec is a brand and Vactrol is one of its product names. The VacTec VTL3A47 I just pulled from the shelf is therefore a true "Vactrol". But the term optocoupler is more universal. Unfortunately it is also more often applied to the DIP style opto's used in data communications and industrial controls. Whihc usually have *much* faster-acting photodiodes or photo-transistors. Point is, one needs to be specific when talking about these kinds of devices.

And yes, their use in Phasers can truly be. stunning. ;)

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Re: Phasers

Post by Dr Gris » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:49 pm

The Hordijk Dual Phaser is indeed wonderful, too bad it's unobtainable last time I checked.
I know this is "General gear" and not 5U modular (Hordijk) or Eurorack (check out AJH Next Phase) so I would like to mention a not so well known stomp box, Maxon PH350.

//M

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