Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Michael O. » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:16 pm

metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:26 am
If Toppobrillo doesn't ever want to rerelease it, the Sport Modulator should be cloned by another quality manufacturer. I don't have one, but the videos I've seen of it got me quite interested. I've had notifications turned on for it, but at this point I've kind of given up on finding one on the used market; it seems I just missed the window of opportunity on that module, and I'm also afraid that it will go for exorbitant prices.
Whoa, I had no idea Sport Modulator was discontinued; that’s as basic and fundamental a modular building block as Maths/DUSG imo. If it’s any help, the module is essentially just a differently implemented version of the Serge Smoothed/Stepped Generator (SSG), so that may give you a lead in finding a replacement.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by SynthBaron » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:23 pm

dot matrix madness wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:38 am
Alesis Andromeda
Strange that Alesis hasn't re-released it in the midst of all this new analog synth glory. The development is done, all you'd need to do is replace any obsoleted parts. Then again, I remember someone saying that the ASIC they came up didn't behave perfectly.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by ersatzplanet » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:37 pm

Nord Modular G2. Add more modules like wav players and granular. Make the editor in something universal (like Java). I know there are devices close to the Nord idea like the Axolotl and a Zrna Also, but build it with the keyboard and a full dedicated interface with LSC readouts and the full nine yards.
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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by mckenic » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:56 pm

Mutator

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by SynthBaron » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:14 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Nord Modular G2. Add more modules like wav players and granular. Make the editor in something universal (like Java). I know there are devices close to the Nord idea like the Axolotl and a Zrna Also, but build it with the keyboard and a full dedicated interface with LSC readouts and the full nine yards.
I don't think anyone would approach a new version with DSP's these days, though. As much as I had wanted one to happen, there's also probably good financial reasons why Nord hasn't invested in a G3.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Dave Peck » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:20 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Nord Modular G2. Add more modules like wav players and granular. Make the editor in something universal (like Java). I know there are devices close to the Nord idea like the Axolotl and a Zrna Also, but build it with the keyboard and a full dedicated interface with LSC readouts and the full nine yards.
Yes! And to avoid the whole problem that Clavia had last time, of keeping the OS updated so it continues to work with new PC & Mac OS releases, just include a tiny PC running Linux that hosts the graphic editor inside the synth, with connections for monitor/kybd/mouse, so it is a completely self-contained system and you never have to connect it to an external computer.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Dave Peck » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:47 pm

mome rath wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:45 pm
Image


:skate: :skate:
Hell yeah. I have owned a Chroma since I bought it new around 1980 and after all this time I still have not been able to completely replicate it's distinctive, massive sound on any other synth. BUT - this is one synth that would benefit from some important 'updates', rather than being a true clone, as long as the sound was still true to the original.

1. Modernize the mechanical construction (i.e. enclosure), the power supply, the digital control circuitry and the PCB design. Just keep the analog voice schematically accurate.

2. Fix the DX7-style UI - Replace the 50 parameter membrane switches with 50 rotary encoders that include push switch function. And provide a somewhat larger display that provides more info about the parameters - for example many of the parameters are effectively a sixteen position switch and it would be helpful to see the NAMES of the 16 LFO waveforms. "DOWN SAW" or "SINE w/ OFFSET" is more meaningful than "5" or "12".

3. Faster LFO max rates (and slower min rates). The CPU-generated LFOs could easily run way up into the audio range now.

4. Finer resolution for the resonance controls. At least 64 steps.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Unborn Gore » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:44 pm

SY22/85/TG33, but reface size.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by SynthBaron » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:07 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:47 pm
mome rath wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:45 pm
Image


:skate: :skate:
Hell yeah. I have owned a Chroma since I bought it new around 1980 and after all this time I still have not been able to completely replicate it's distinctive, massive sound on any other synth. BUT - this is one synth that would benefit from some important 'updates', rather than being a true clone, as long as the sound was still true to the original.

1. Modernize the mechanical construction (i.e. enclosure), the power supply, the digital control circuitry and the PCB design. Just keep the analog voice schematically accurate.

2. Fix the DX7-style UI - Replace the 50 parameter membrane switches with 50 rotary encoders that include push switch function. And provide a somewhat larger display that provides more info about the parameters - for example many of the parameters are effectively a sixteen position switch and it would be helpful to see the NAMES of the 16 LFO waveforms. "DOWN SAW" or "SINE w/ OFFSET" is more meaningful than "5" or "12".

3. Faster LFO max rates (and slower min rates). The CPU-generated LFOs could easily run way up into the audio range now.

4. Finer resolution for the resonance controls. At least 64 steps.
Every Youtube video I've seen makes it feel like it's a more playable synth than the CS-80. Always wanted to try one.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Dave Peck » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:10 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:07 pm


Every Youtube video I've seen makes it feel like it's a more playable synth than the CS-80. Always wanted to try one.
Yes, one of the unusual features of the Chroma is the weighted piano-action keyboard, but it has pros and cons. If you like a piano-action keyboard, it's great. But if you want to play blazing fast lead runs like you would on a non-weighted synth action keyboard it's not the best choice. Replicating this keyboard would most likely be one of the most daunting tasks of attempting to clone the Chroma. Also, it does have well-implemented velocity control but it does not have aftertouch except as a rare aftermarket modification (AT was not a common feature on synths back then). A clone should add at least channel AT.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by metamorphmuses » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:17 pm

Michael O. wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:16 pm
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:26 am
If Toppobrillo doesn't ever want to rerelease it, the Sport Modulator should be cloned by another quality manufacturer. I don't have one, but the videos I've seen of it got me quite interested. I've had notifications turned on for it, but at this point I've kind of given up on finding one on the used market; it seems I just missed the window of opportunity on that module, and I'm also afraid that it will go for exorbitant prices.
Whoa, I had no idea Sport Modulator was discontinued; that’s as basic and fundamental a modular building block as Maths/DUSG imo. If it’s any help, the module is essentially just a differently implemented version of the Serge Smoothed/Stepped Generator (SSG), so that may give you a lead in finding a replacement.
Thanks, yes, I was looking for an alternative to the SSG because I don't have room for it. In the end, I settled on a SSF Ultra-Random Analog as it has some similarities to the SSG.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by SynthBaron » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:18 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:10 pm
Also, it does have well-implemented velocity control but it does not have aftertouch except as a rare aftermarket modification (AT was not a common feature on synths back then). A clone should add at least channel AT.
Huh, I thought it was standard.

Then again, I just discovered this exists...a newly made kit to add Poly AT:

https://retroaktivsynthesizers.com/prod ... aftertouch

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by dot matrix madness » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:13 am

Dave Peck wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:20 pm
ersatzplanet wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Nord Modular G2. Add more modules like wav players and granular. Make the editor in something universal (like Java). I know there are devices close to the Nord idea like the Axolotl and a Zrna Also, but build it with the keyboard and a full dedicated interface with LSC readouts and the full nine yards.
Yes! And to avoid the whole problem that Clavia had last time, of keeping the OS updated so it continues to work with new PC & Mac OS releases, just include a tiny PC running Linux that hosts the graphic editor inside the synth, with connections for monitor/kybd/mouse, so it is a completely self-contained system and you never have to connect it to an external computer.
According to what I read in an interview with the makers of Clavia (German Keyboard Magazin, ca. 2018), they claim that is takes much more effort do the programming of such a modular synth than their other synths. Well, it comes down to whom is actually coding.
As Java has become a licensing issue for companies, an editor in HTML seems a better solution to me. And that could indeed be run on an internal Linux OS, for example using a Raspi.
Licenced to solder since 1993

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by tron23 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:42 am

Unborn Gore wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:44 pm
SY22/85/TG33, but reface size.
Switchable 8/12/16 bit converter Yamaha rompler in reface format, yes please! :guinness:

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Voltcontrol » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:56 am

tron23 wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:42 am
Unborn Gore wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:44 pm
SY22/85/TG33, but reface size.
Switchable 8/12/16 bit converter Yamaha rompler in reface format, yes please! :guinness:
If they can get polyphony right I’d LOVE to see this in Volca format!
Gaun Yersel!

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by ersatzplanet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:26 pm

dot matrix madness wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:13 am
Dave Peck wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:20 pm
ersatzplanet wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Nord Modular G2. Add more modules like wav players and granular. Make the editor in something universal (like Java). I know there are devices close to the Nord idea like the Axolotl and a Zrna Also, but build it with the keyboard and a full dedicated interface with LSC readouts and the full nine yards.
Yes! And to avoid the whole problem that Clavia had last time, of keeping the OS updated so it continues to work with new PC & Mac OS releases, just include a tiny PC running Linux that hosts the graphic editor inside the synth, with connections for monitor/kybd/mouse, so it is a completely self-contained system and you never have to connect it to an external computer.
According to what I read in an interview with the makers of Clavia (German Keyboard Magazin, ca. 2018), they claim that is takes much more effort do the programming of such a modular synth than their other synths. Well, it comes down to whom is actually coding.
As Java has become a licensing issue for companies, an editor in HTML seems a better solution to me. And that could indeed be run on an internal Linux OS, for example using a Raspi.
The Axolotl and Zrna units both use a Java based editor I think. They also are Open Source so currently there are over 2600 modules in the community written list, and 700 in the Factory list. Many are similar to each other and lots are pretty obscure. There are clones of the major Open Source Eurorack modules there too.

As you mention though, a simple mini computer built in that could handle the editing, that had mouse, keyboard and monitor USB inputs, would make the whole idea of compatibility moot. Provisions for internal or external drives to hold programs or samples would be the thing to do.
-James

James Husted - Synthwerks, LLC - www.synthwerks.com - info@synthwerks.com - james@synthwerks.com
Synthwerks is a proud member of the Mostly Modular Trade Association (http://www.mostlymodular.com).
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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Dave Peck » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:43 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:26 pm
Provisions for internal or external drives to hold programs or samples would be the thing to do.
The program file size for Nord Modular & G2 patches is really tiny, just a simple small text string because it's just the usual data for parameter settings plus some extra bits for info about connections to & from the various modules used in the patch. The synth hardware could hold patch memory for vast amounts of patches, similar to any modern programmable polysynth. In fact the old NM & G2 can already hold huge numbers of patches.

But storage for samples - yes, THAT would be an awesome new feature. And it wouldn't have to be done with lots of storage hardware inside the synth, it could be done by using a simple dedicated USB port (or two or three!) for user samples on USB sticks. The capacity on those things is huge and cheap now.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by midifail » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:52 pm

i´d love to see a 2021 hartmann neuron! vst would be fine


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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by ersatzplanet » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:16 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:43 pm
ersatzplanet wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:26 pm
Provisions for internal or external drives to hold programs or samples would be the thing to do.
The program file size for Nord Modular & G2 patches is really tiny, just a simple small text string because it's just the usual data for parameter settings plus some extra bits for info about connections to & from the various modules used in the patch. The synth hardware could hold patch memory for vast amounts of patches, similar to any modern programmable polysynth. In fact the old NM & G2 can already hold huge numbers of patches.

But storage for samples - yes, THAT would be an awesome new feature. And it wouldn't have to be done with lots of storage hardware inside the synth, it could be done by using a simple dedicated USB port (or two or three!) for user samples on USB sticks. The capacity on those things is huge and cheap now.
I have a pair of 4ms STS, and a Tesseract Nutella in my rig and they both read straight off of micro SD cards and the samples are only limited by the size of the card. You can easily play background ambience from them that are hours long. A card for samples would be great. The STS has a great file structure on the cards that easily allows set or sone arrangements and groupings for easy access. Something like that would be perfect.

The modular patch files are indeed very small. I have a library of 10's of thousands of NM1 and G2 patches and the average file sizes are like 3K with few reaching 7K and none over 10K.
-James

James Husted - Synthwerks, LLC - www.synthwerks.com - info@synthwerks.com - james@synthwerks.com
Synthwerks is a proud member of the Mostly Modular Trade Association (http://www.mostlymodular.com).
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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by metamorphmuses » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:15 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:26 am
If Toppobrillo doesn't ever want to rerelease it, the Sport Modulator should be cloned by another quality manufacturer. I don't have one, but the videos I've seen of it got me quite interested. I've had notifications turned on for it, but at this point I've kind of given up on finding one on the used market; it seems I just missed the window of opportunity on that module, and I'm also afraid that it will go for exorbitant prices.
{snip}
And more recently I found out (thanks to this thread) about the difference between sequential switches and interpolating scanners; an important revelation, as I have always been looking fruitlessly for the functionality of an interpolating scanner over a sequential switch.

Anyway, it looks like one of the best interpolating scanners was the Toppobrillo Mixiplexer, but as with the Sport Modulator, that module is discontinued. So, as with the SM, if Toppobrillo has no intention of rereleasing it, then another quality manufacturer should clone the Mixiplexer.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Voltcontrol » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:15 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:26 am
If Toppobrillo doesn't ever want to rerelease it, the Sport Modulator should be cloned by another quality manufacturer. I don't have one, but the videos I've seen of it got me quite interested. I've had notifications turned on for it, but at this point I've kind of given up on finding one on the used market; it seems I just missed the window of opportunity on that module, and I'm also afraid that it will go for exorbitant prices.
{snip}
And more recently I found out (thanks to this thread) about the difference between sequential switches and interpolating scanners; an important revelation, as I have always been looking fruitlessly for the functionality of an interpolating scanner over a sequential switch.

Anyway, it looks like one of the best interpolating scanners was the Toppobrillo Mixiplexer, but as with the Sport Modulator, that module is discontinued. So, as with the SM, if Toppobrillo has no intention of rereleasing it, then another quality manufacturer should clone the Mixiplexer.
Would be great if both come back! A bit less so for the SM as both Elby and Random*Source still make the SSG which it's based upon, but still differences in behaviour justify the existence of both, and there's plenty of ask for the SM.

Some Mixiplexer alternative ideas:
Noise Lab Fourcaster - "The Fourcaster is a unique 4-channel crossfader a.k.a. interpolating scanner."
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-lab-fourcaster

Joranalogue Morph 4 - " a voltage controlled mixer, dual crossfader, dual panner, interpolating scanner, interpolating distributor, quad VCA, quadraphonic controller, slope modifier, rectifier, complex waveshaper or something in between any of those—the choice is yours."
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/joranalog ... gn-morph-4
Gaun Yersel!

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Hyberus » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:19 am

Somebody should clone the RSF Kobol
Random is the new maRnod

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by sir stony » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:30 am

Unborn Gore wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:44 pm
SY22/85/TG33, but reface size.
You can have my TG33. ;)

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by metamorphmuses » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:15 am

Voltcontrol wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:15 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:26 am
If Toppobrillo doesn't ever want to rerelease it, the Sport Modulator should be cloned by another quality manufacturer. I don't have one, but the videos I've seen of it got me quite interested. I've had notifications turned on for it, but at this point I've kind of given up on finding one on the used market; it seems I just missed the window of opportunity on that module, and I'm also afraid that it will go for exorbitant prices.
{snip}
And more recently I found out (thanks to this thread) about the difference between sequential switches and interpolating scanners; an important revelation, as I have always been looking fruitlessly for the functionality of an interpolating scanner over a sequential switch.

Anyway, it looks like one of the best interpolating scanners was the Toppobrillo Mixiplexer, but as with the Sport Modulator, that module is discontinued. So, as with the SM, if Toppobrillo has no intention of rereleasing it, then another quality manufacturer should clone the Mixiplexer.
Would be great if both come back! A bit less so for the SM as both Elby and Random*Source still make the SSG which it's based upon, but still differences in behaviour justify the existence of both, and there's plenty of ask for the SM.

Some Mixiplexer alternative ideas:
Noise Lab Fourcaster - "The Fourcaster is a unique 4-channel crossfader a.k.a. interpolating scanner."
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-lab-fourcaster

Joranalogue Morph 4 - " a voltage controlled mixer, dual crossfader, dual panner, interpolating scanner, interpolating distributor, quad VCA, quadraphonic controller, slope modifier, rectifier, complex waveshaper or something in between any of those—the choice is yours."
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/joranalog ... gn-morph-4
Thanks for the suggestions. I have indeed considered both the Fourcaster and the Morph 4. Unfortunately, I don't have space for the Morph 4 — and believe me, I considered several possible rearrangements of my modules in ModularGrid before concluding that it's a no-go short of getting new cases. The Fourcaster could work, except it's a 4:1 but not a 1:4 like the Mixiplexer. (I am really into many-in-many-out modules.)

Right now, I am contenting myself with the combination of the ADDAC 805 with an Antimatter V3kt and they pair well together.

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Re: Gear That Ought To Be Cloned

Post by Voltcontrol » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:16 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:15 am
Thanks for the suggestions. I have indeed considered both the Fourcaster and the Morph 4. Unfortunately, I don't have space for the Morph 4 — and believe me, I considered several possible rearrangements of my modules in ModularGrid before concluding that it's a no-go short of getting new cases. The Fourcaster could work, except it's a 4:1 but not a 1:4 like the Mixiplexer. (I am really into many-in-many-out modules.)

Right now, I am contenting myself with the combination of the ADDAC 805 with an Antimatter V3kt and they pair well together.
:tu:
Gaun Yersel!

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