Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

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Licudi
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Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Licudi » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:11 pm

Quick heads-up for the unwary: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT. You'll need to factor-in an additional 22% charge as a minimum.

Interestingly, neither Bax's or Schneidersladen's sites show a similar change at the time of writing, though that may alter after the New Year break or when the precise terms of the UK's regained sovereignty become clearer. So far there is this statement on the gov.uk website:
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by strettara » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:43 pm

Yeah I won’t be buying anything from the UK anymore. I have no wish to pay customs for stuff I can just as well get in Europe.
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by chai baba » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:51 pm

I bought a lot in the UK last year, just because it wasn`t available in the EU at that time. So i will be more patient if supply runs short. Thanks a lot for sharing the info. It will be interesting how it will work, if you send a module for a check up to a manufacturer in the UK or Scotland. Do they have to pick it up from the customs ? I don`t hope so, ...and it was already payed, too.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by dgl » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:59 pm

Admitedly the 2% charge is about what Nationwide charge me for a non-sterling transaction (it's what Visa charge them) so if they are still at least 2% cheaper with VAT then I will still use them, As I understand Thomann will still have to collect VAT on deliveries under a certain amount.

A lot of this is incredibly annoying as why can't there be a way for a large companies like Thomann to collect all relevant charges themselves in teh same way that previously Thomann has collected UK VAT from every one of my orders over the years and passed it on to the UK Government as required by law. This must be screwing over UK suppliers that ship to Europe as well, though I believe G4M now have a Swedish distribution center to get past all these issues.

Giving all these issues I wonder if Thomann will consider opening a UK warehouse or is the size of the UK market and the fact they like having all business functions on the one (admittedly huge) site make it a non starter.

As for paying customs charges this is where the couriers/RM will make a killing. They will either hold the products until you to pay them so they can pay the customs fees or ship it to you and later on send a letter asking you to pay the custom fees to them, of course this is where their collection fees come into effect, so not only will you have the VAT + 2% but you will have the couriers collection fees on top of that.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by tIB » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:08 pm

Theres a customs code for repairs and such so hopefully that applies to the new system too.

Bit of a step into the unknown at the minute when it comes to EU - UK import tax and fees. I'll be avoiding that for as long as possible. As a rule of thumb I usually allow for 30% from the US - it's usually slightly below that, though I've had times when the tax on low value items was higher than the price of the item.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by dgl » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:16 pm

I'll admit I was lucky when I ordered my replacement FDD for the S330 from America that it slipped through customs without a hitch.

Naturally these new laws mean that if you did decided to visit Thomann and brought something nice you would have to declare it as you went back and pay the duty on it.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Halfgeleider » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:44 pm

Why would Shneidersladen or any other european shops put prices without VAT on their websites? Yes the UK left the european union, so buying from them causes people outside the UK to pay VAT and customs just like you buy something purchased from for example Russia... that doesnt mean EU shops should display their items without VAT imo. The whole thing is sad because i had great experiences with thonk and Juno, but i wont be buying from them any time soon, customs kill it every time!

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Kawouddd » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:59 pm

Eurgh 🤦‍♂️

If I was a gambling man I’d be ordering some high end synth bits around now, because I cannot believe this will not be a massive balls up with a fighting chance of millions missed in duty and tax.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by BugBrand » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:06 pm

Halfgeleider wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:44 pm
Why would Shneidersladen or any other european shops put prices without VAT on their websites? Yes the UK left the european union, so buying from them causes people outside the UK to pay VAT and customs just like you buy something purchased from for example Russia... that doesnt mean EU shops should display their items without VAT imo. The whole thing is sad because i had great experiences with thonk and Juno, but i wont be buying from them any time soon, customs kill it every time!
As a VAT registered company selling worldwide, it can be helpful to show both Inclusive & Exclusive VAT prices - eg. if someone purchases from US then they will pay Ex.VAT.
My old website only showed Ex.VAT & it was often a surprise for UK/EU purchasers to find 20% added at the end! Especially relevant when people are today very driven to find the cheapest source for an item!
So the suggestion of showing Ex-VAT is not meant to be a UK-centric position.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Kawouddd » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:54 pm

Halfgeleider wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:44 pm
Why would Shneidersladen or any other european shops put prices without VAT on their websites? Yes the UK left the european union, so buying from them causes people outside the UK to pay VAT and customs just like you buy something purchased from for example Russia... that doesnt mean EU shops should display their items without VAT imo. The whole thing is sad because i had great experiences with thonk and Juno, but i wont be buying from them any time soon, customs kill it every time!
I guess part of the additional complexity here is that the shops no longer charge or receive the VAT; this is presumably configured through a godawful mess of arrangements at the border resulting in (I presume) customs charges being sent to individuals and items withheld until said charges are paid. If we’re now working as we did with the US.

So, really, it’s nothing to do with them. Just as the IFM system I bought from CL was priced without UK customs and VAT, it’s between the consumer and HMRC. Nothing to do with Thomann any more. Welcome to a brave new Brexit world.

Edit: after ten minutes of browsing entirely unhelpful government websites, all I can say is “Christ almighty what the fuck have we done 🤦‍♂️“ As if ordering niche items from the US and Japan wasn’t enough of a clusterfuck, we’ve now got identical levels of clusterfuck buying anything from Europe. How the hell did this look sane to any walking, thinking being?

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Jee » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:42 pm

The main difference is vat rate difference and customs fees + transporters fees (often a flat rate not helping small orders which is more annoying / expensive than customs fees in small orders) but you used to pay vat anyway already, wherever it comes from.
UK people should expect slightly higher prices buying from EU in the short term because they have high vat rate compared to Germany but I’m pretty sure agreements will be found to lower them in the long run through agreements. UK is the king country for trade agreements, they always get what they want 8-)
And after all, UK made a (good) choice, there will be pros and cons but I’m sure they will benefit it overall. I wish France does the same.
And it is likely that some major shops like Thomann or Musicstore will open shops in the UK, which will erase this problem and also help UK economics. See long term UK people, brexit was a brilliant move despite the current mess and overall boredom linked to it.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Hyberus » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:36 am

Also the free shipping threshold, which was £99 when I ordered a couple of Doepfer bits between Xmas and New Year is now £135, although the shipping cost is still £8
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Kawouddd » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:46 am

Jee wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:42 pm
The main difference is vat rate difference and customs fees + transporters fees (often a flat rate not helping small orders which is more annoying / expensive than customs fees in small orders) but you used to pay vat anyway already, wherever it comes from.
UK people should expect slightly higher prices buying from EU in the short term because they have high vat rate compared to Germany but I’m pretty sure agreements will be found to lower them in the long run through agreements. UK is the king country for trade agreements, they always get what they want 8-)
And after all, UK made a (good) choice, there will be pros and cons but I’m sure they will benefit it overall. I wish France does the same.
And it is likely that some major shops like Thomann or Musicstore will open shops in the UK, which will erase this problem and also help UK economics. See long term UK people, brexit was a brilliant move despite the current mess and overall boredom linked to it.
I note that there’s no actual content beyond vague aspirations and cheerleading here, and a comment that - yep - prices will be higher and trade more complicated until *undefined aspirational hope magic* happens.

I’m certainly sure we can all indeed look forward to things hopefully almost returning to being as seamless and as not additionally expensive as they were 😎 And we have certainly won what we wanted, trade is now as difficult and complicated (with additional duty charges?!) as it is when ordering from the US or Japan. Parity all round, yay.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by dgl » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:54 am

and of course custom charges work both ways, hence why the likes of G4M have an EU warehouse, remember if the grass is always greener on the other side then the moment you reach the other side it is no longer the greenest.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Kawouddd » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:01 am

Oh, f***.

Will this apply to items posted by private individuals?! Assuming not, but having bought a Syntrx on FST last week which just missed the French post on NYE... 🤦‍♂️

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Hyberus » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:10 am

I think that for private individuals it's probably a hit and miss affair. As an example: my ex-wife is Japanese, and her mother regularly sent her parcels of Japanese books, and dried food. Most of the time they just arrived on our doorstep, courtesy of whichever courier company was partnering with the Japanese postal service. Once or twice UK customs decided that they were a commercial delivery, and we had to go to the depot and pay customs charges before we could collect.
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by tIB » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:12 am

Kawouddd wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:01 am
Oh, f***.

Will this apply to items posted by private individuals?! Assuming not, but having bought a Syntrx on FST last week which just missed the French post on NYE... 🤦‍♂️
I think anything coming in from Europe will now go through customs - it does when you buy privately from the US for example - so in theory yes, but hopefully in practice you might get away with it. PM me if you want as I may have some that will help...

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by BugBrand » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:21 am

Worth noting perhaps that you can entirely trust the efficiencies of UK institutions ;)

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Hyberus » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:32 am

BugBrand wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:21 am
Worth noting perhaps that you can entirely trust the efficiencies of UK institutions ;)
Doing that gave us Brexit . . .
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Kawouddd » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:38 am

BugBrand wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:21 am
Worth noting perhaps that you can entirely trust the efficiencies of UK institutions ;)
My concern here is that not even the inefficiencies are efficient. You just can’t rely on the system to fail 100% of the time, particularly on those rare occasions when embedded and routine incompetence might actually be useful for once.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Licudi » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:47 am

Some interesting comments here but perhaps it’s better this doesn't turn into a discussion of the UK leaving the EU as I'm sure that will result in the thread’s deletion. It's intended more as a catch-all for the complications (and learning curve) of the new world we find ourselves in.
Hyberus wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:10 am
I think that for private individuals it's probably a hit and miss affair. As an example: my ex-wife is Japanese, and her mother regularly sent her parcels of Japanese books, and dried food. Most of the time they just arrived on our doorstep, courtesy of whichever courier company was partnering with the Japanese postal service. Once or twice UK customs decided that they were a commercial delivery, and we had to go to the depot and pay customs charges before we could collect.
I don't think books or printed materials are subject to VAT in the UK - at least, they haven't been in the past. Looks like we will all have to become a bit more knowledgable about international trade in the future and maybe that's no bad thing.

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Hyberus » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:56 am

Books have traditionally been VAT free, but e-books certainly used to attract the full rate.
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Licudi » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:58 am

Hyberus wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:56 am
Books have traditionally been VAT free, but e-books certainly used to attract the full rate.
That's true. Another one of those stealth taxes...
Hyberus wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:36 am
Also the free shipping threshold, which was £99 when I ordered a couple of Doepfer bits between Xmas and New Year is now £135, although the shipping cost is still £8
One of the commonest tricks when buying from Thomann is to add one of its £8 mic or synth stands to a small order to get it over the free shipping threshold. Also this results in Thomann using a 61-key synth box for packaging, which is very useful for anyone who has a secondhand synth to ship.

So I'm told ... ;)

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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by Hyberus » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:04 am

Licudi wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:58 am
Hyberus wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:56 am
Books have traditionally been VAT free, but e-books certainly used to attract the full rate.
That's true. Another one of those stealth taxes...
Hyberus wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:36 am
Also the free shipping threshold, which was £99 when I ordered a couple of Doepfer bits between Xmas and New Year is now £135, although the shipping cost is still £8
One of the commonest tricks when buying from Thomann is to add one of its £8 mic or synth stands to a small order to get it over the free shipping threshold. Also this results in Thomann using a 61-key synth box for packaging, which is very useful for anyone who has a secondhand synth to ship.

So I'm told ... ;)
My recent order included some patch cables that I didn't really need . . .

Good thing I made it before the threshold went up, I can justify £6 worth of do-you-really-need-those? cables, but not £41 worth
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Re: Thomann prices to the UK no longer include VAT

Post by strettara » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:35 am

Licudi wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:47 am
Some interesting comments here but perhaps it’s better this doesn't turn into a discussion of the UK leaving the EU as I'm sure that will result in the thread’s deletion. It's intended more as a catch-all for the complications (and learning curve) of the new world we find ourselves in.
You’re the one who started by talking about regained sovereignty. If you really want an apolitical discussion, I suggest you edit your initial post.
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