Sequentix Cirklon

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

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oscilloscope
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Post by oscilloscope » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:33 am

It seems to me that Sequentix is probably not motivated to alleviate the scarcity of its machines, not because it refuses "industrialization", but because it profits from the resulting "desirability" factor ie the "I am special since I own a Cirklon", or "I am a badass musician since I use a Cirklon" type of thinking. And of course the used market pricing that goes with it, contributes to the repute.

Sort of like those luthiers who make one of kind, exorbitantly priced guitars built with dalbergia wood, and frets made of mastodon tusk.

Yes Cirklon probably offers the best sequencer features, but for just a bit less (or different) features, a lot less money, and good availability, one could get a Pyramid (who btw released a new OS last week, boosting events from 7,000 to 10,000).

Would I get a Cirklon rather than a Pyramid if the Cirklon was priced as, and had the availability of a Pyramid ?

I'd probably get both...

8-)

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Post by Panason » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:44 am

Squarps' ongoing updates are impressive support, especially for a small company. Lots of thumbs up there, and what I've seen of their forum shows they're doing their best and they do make an effort to reply to questions.

I have said pretty much the same about Sequentix's MO and was talked down but it's not a judgment call. I work in a similar way with my own work (not music related) and wouldn't have it any other way. "Find a niche market and work with it" is a good way to make money while being your own boss.
But of course it's frustrating if you're waiting for your chance to obtain the unobtainium. I had potential clients that waited on me for ages and eventually went elsewehere but I can't be bothered to work for them. I could probably make more money but the extra hassle would make it not worth much.

If Squarp made a mk2 with a larger screen, no silicone or touchpad and no shitty micro USB port, I would buy it immediately.

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Post by ranix » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:34 am

oscilloscope wrote:It seems to me that Sequentix is probably not motivated to alleviate the scarcity of its machines, it profits from the resulting "desirability" factor
market saturation is what ends companies like this that offer only one complex product and give it continuous updates. It's not that they're not motivated, it's that reducing their profit margin is self-destructive. The Cirklon isn't a product that makes sense to sell in large quantities at a lower price.

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Post by Sinamsis » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:39 am

Panason wrote:I got confirmation but no further updates and didn't know that the waiting time had doubled from the "approximately one year" I was given when I signed up. I emailed to confirm i was still on the list and they replied about a week later.

Anyway. RE: trig conditions. If there is no limit on pattern length you don't really need them unless you get off on the random/generative stuff... :despair: On my Rytm I use a few periodic triggers but it's only out of laziness while I know that is is better to make a few variation patterns. The problem is that there is no visual indicator when you look at the 16 step buttons as to which steps are conditional/ periodic trigs so when troubleshooting/ editing the pattern later things can get confusing and annoying. Also if your trig occurs once in a while and you're trying to audition it, it slows things down as you wait for the trig to occur.

tl;dr: fuck elektron and their "trigs" BS. It's "triggers", you nerds! When I came to "trigless trigs" in the manual it was time to hit the drink and drugs. :waah:
If you press a step and hold it on an Elektron box it shows all the parameters that are locked which includes conditional triggers. I do find that used conservatively you can get a lot more mileage out of a pattern, and can develop complex patterns very quickly. You can create a longer pattern from the 64 step limit (in the Elektron boxes). I still find it helpful in the Cirklon, although I feel like the way probability is implemented on the Cirklon is not as musical as on the Elektron, but this is completely subjective and without any hard evidence. Otherwise much more complex goals can be achieved with the Cirklon's probability based features as you can apply random masks to a variety of things. For instance, I always wanted to have conditional retrigs in the Elektron boxes, but it's not possible as far as I know. I do believe this can be accomplished with the Cirklon, though I feel like I've had wonky results with it in the past.

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Post by Panason » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:28 am

The problem with Elektron trigs is that you have to actually press and hold inidividual steps to see if they have trig condtions applied. By just looking at the 16 buttons all you can see is active steps and steps which only contain modulations and no actual trigger (aka "trigless trigs, groan). maybe the newer machines show more as they have coloured LEDs ?

I sure would love to dig into the Cirklon's nitty gritty . I think the accumulators is where it's at for musical applications. Many times I make a short pattern in Ableton and think " if i could program these notes to increase in velocity/ go up or down the scale with every loop iteration" etc, but cannot be bothered to dig into Max devices because computer fatigue. I suppose this is the kind of thing the accumulators are for.

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Post by chiasticon » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:37 am

I got a confirmation email as well, though it wasn't automated. I think it took a couple weeks. they do everything manually, it seems. even trying to get into their forum took a couple days to prove I was there for a legit reason.
Funky40 wrote:......landed by coincidence on ebay the other day and saw a Cirklon for 3000$ :hmm:
having gotten one now, I'm actually more surprised that things like the ARP 1601 clone go for the prices they do ($1700ish). in that light, $3k for a Cirklon looks like a deal.

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Post by sleestack808 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:37 pm

I got onto the forum putting in a random serial number. I dont even own a cirklon

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Post by DJMaytag » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:27 pm

sleestack808 wrote:I got onto the forum putting in a random serial number. I dont even own a cirklon
You don’t have to be an owner, but I think they’d prefer you at least be on their wait list.
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Post by Panason » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:36 am

£2400 on ebay :
Was willing to give it a shot but couldn’t get it to fit well with in my workflow so decided to sell it.


What you see is what you get. Plenty of pictures taken. It does show some signs of use and the power cable is a bit sensitive, but if left in a stationary position you shouldn’t get any problems.
couldn’t get it to fit well with in my workflow
and decided to exploit you instead.

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Post by dubonaire » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:58 am

Panason wrote:£2400 on ebay :
Was willing to give it a shot but couldn’t get it to fit well with in my workflow so decided to sell it.


What you see is what you get. Plenty of pictures taken. It does show some signs of use and the power cable is a bit sensitive, but if left in a stationary position you shouldn’t get any problems.
couldn’t get it to fit well with in my workflow
and decided to exploit you instead.
My Cirklon still looks brand new, what on earth was this person doing?

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Post by Panason » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:36 am

I always send an offer of a fair price (ie slightly lower than retail) to all Cirklon price gougers on ebay, just to remind them of their greed... this one responded
if you want the Cirklon now you pay more instead of waiting; that’s just how it goes.
It's "human nature", mate.

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Post by dubonaire » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:15 am

Panason wrote:I always send an offer of a fair price (ie slightly lower than retail) to all Cirklon price gougers on ebay, just to remind them of their greed... this one responded
if you want the Cirklon now you pay more instead of waiting; that’s just how it goes.
It's "human nature", mate.
A more honest answer would be:
if you want the Cirklon now I want you to pay me more instead of waiting; that’s just how I want it to go.
So lame to imply there is some kind of natural force compelling him to gouge. It's not human nature, it's his nature. I think we are aligned on this.

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Post by DJMaytag » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:29 am

dubonaire wrote:It's not human nature, it's his nature. I think we are aligned on this.
You’ve got plus a whole host of people not too far off from being able to get a Cirklon 2 direct (I’m one, and I’m probably 6 months away on the list), rather than buy an overpriced Cirklon 1 and then have to buy an upgrade kit on top of that? Demand is softening a slight bit due to Cirklon 2, and I’m seeing Cirklons sit for longer than usual of late, even ones dropping in price from their original offer.
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Post by Panason » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:42 am

There is one for £3K that's been sitting there on ebay for a couple of months at least. My offer of £1k was automatically rejected :hyper:

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Post by Bath House » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:53 am

To buy a brand new Cirklon with the CVIO and basic breakout box - what I consider a standard full Cirklon configuration - it was easily $2K USD by the time you accounted for the exchange rate, shipping, import brokerage fee of $50 to bring it into the country. $2400 in a world where there is a 2 year wait seems like nothing, barely any markup. I’m not commenting on any particular unit but I’ve seen people rage about “gougers” charging a few hundred extra. It’s easy to look at “1400 euros” or whatever the base cirklon without even CVIO or BOB is listed at, but you’re paying $2000 brand new by the time the smoke clears.
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Post by DJMaytag » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:17 am

I think most of the ire goes to the listings that are around $3000 for just a basic Cirklon. No CVIO, no BOB. That’s nuts, especially considering the upgrade kit to Cirklon 2 is going to cost a minimum of $200 shipped to the US plus import/currency conversion fees. It wouldn’t surprise me if it ended up being closer to $400.
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Post by RickKleffel » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:19 am

I'm coming up on two years, and not so worried. When or if it shows, then I'll decide. I have a Social Entropy Engine which is quite wonderful, and the fellow who made them is working on something new. He's been showing knobs and other teasing bits on Facebook At this point it's a race to see who delivers what when. Support for the Engine is excellent. I'm surprised there's not more talk of it here. That said, I'd be happy with a baseline Cirklon, as the engine has all my CV bases covered. I find working with different sequencers bracing; knowing one feeds into what one knows of the others. Excellent tools with which to create music in the manner one finds most enjoyable.

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Post by chiasticon » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:32 am

I haven't been there for very long but it appeared as though people selling a Cirklon via the Sequentix forum were asking more reasonable prices.

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Post by sleestack808 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 pm

I can't find one good cirklon example. It all sounds like shitty euro dance music. And there seems to be a tame feel to the sequencer. Maybe its the variability in the voltage of different sequencer gate outputs versus the normalized 5 volts you get from the cirklon?

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Post by nodog » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:49 am

sleestack808 wrote:I can't find one good cirklon example. It all sounds like shitty euro dance music. And there seems to be a tame feel to the sequencer. Maybe its the variability in the voltage of different sequencer gate outputs versus the normalized 5 volts you get from the cirklon?
Two words: Aphex Twin

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Post by Schrank » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:11 am

RickKleffel wrote:I'm coming up on two years, and not so worried. When or if it shows, then I'll decide. I have a Social Entropy Engine which is quite wonderful, and the fellow who made them is working on something new. He's been showing knobs and other teasing bits on Facebook At this point it's a race to see who delivers what when.
There's also this Thing in the making: www.xirid.com
Not much official info though.

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Post by Panason » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:33 am

I'm most likely getting something else now, possibly even an Octatrack mk2 (used, will never give money to Elektron).. The Horror!! ......... Only to use it as a MIDI sequencer, which is nuts, but that's what's available that ticks most boxes....

Will the Engine 2 have a display and more buttons?

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Post by slumberjack » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:52 am

Schrank wrote:
RickKleffel wrote:I'm coming up on two years, and not so worried. When or if it shows, then I'll decide. I have a Social Entropy Engine which is quite wonderful, and the fellow who made them is working on something new. He's been showing knobs and other teasing bits on Facebook At this point it's a race to see who delivers what when.
There's also this Thing in the making: www.xirid.com
Not much official info though.
Always looking for another option for taking with me to shows this one looks nice. I hate to take the cirklon out of my studio.

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Post by sleestack808 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:13 pm

nodog wrote:
sleestack808 wrote:I can't find one good cirklon example. It all sounds like shitty euro dance music. And there seems to be a tame feel to the sequencer. Maybe its the variability in the voltage of different sequencer gate outputs versus the normalized 5 volts you get from the cirklon?
Two words: Aphex Twin
I like what he's done with it. But he could make most setups sound good.

Is there a way to pump out more than 5 volts for a trigger? For drum trigger inputs this can mean a lot on the sound varying. And other modules probably.

I find the mc-4 sounds punchier and tighter, but maybe that's only cause it spits out 12 volt gate and trigger

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Post by revtor » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:59 pm

Gates/triggers either work or don’t.. don’t see how one could be punchier than another. Of course an analog rig could be set up to react 100 different ways so who knows...

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