Sequentix Cirklon

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

Post Reply
sleestack808
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:45 am

Post by sleestack808 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:19 pm

Not on drum machines with trigger inputs. Im not a modular expert. But you can really change a sound with a strong trigger

User avatar
shreddoggie
Wiggling like a Pomeranian
Posts: 591
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 7:04 pm

Post by shreddoggie » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:46 pm

Panason wrote:I'm most likely getting something else now, possibly even an Octatrack mk2 (used, will never give money to Elektron).. The Horror!! ......... Only to use it as a MIDI sequencer, which is nuts, but that's what's available that ticks most boxes....

Will the Engine 2 have a display and more buttons?
The OT sequencer is really good. The main shortcoming is that you can't name much of anything which makes performing nearly impossible for me:

Track 5 part 11 has sound B-112 on synth 4 with CC#54 mapped to knob 3 - this aint happening.

Besides that it is a really amazing monophonic with aux note sequencer. With a big display, naming, and true polyphonic tracks it would be one of the best out there, audio tracks a bonus. Without these its still pretty good, just better used by David Blaine or Jerry Lewis - either that or keep it in the studio and apply PATIENCE liberally.
Bruce Lee wrote:"Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle. In short, enter a mold without being caged in it. Obey the principle without being bound by it. LEARN, MASTER AND ACHIEVE!!!"

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6306
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:28 am

sleestack808 wrote:
nodog wrote:
sleestack808 wrote:I can't find one good cirklon example. It all sounds like shitty euro dance music. And there seems to be a tame feel to the sequencer. Maybe its the variability in the voltage of different sequencer gate outputs versus the normalized 5 volts you get from the cirklon?
Two words: Aphex Twin
I like what he's done with it. But he could make most setups sound good.

Is there a way to pump out more than 5 volts for a trigger? For drum trigger inputs this can mean a lot on the sound varying. And other modules probably.

I find the mc-4 sounds punchier and tighter, but maybe that's only cause it spits out 12 volt gate and trigger
I really have no idea what you are on about. Trigger inputs look for a rising signal and the voltage level has nothing to do with the punchiness of what happens next. It either triggers or it doesn't.

User avatar
nodog
Common Wiggler
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:06 am

Post by nodog » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:26 am

You are both right. Standard gates are on/off but also, there is equipment that reacts velocity sensitive to triggers. The Syncussion does that. You can trigger it with triggers but also with sound. It's fun feeding it a drumpattern with a lot of velocity variance.

I don't think a sequencer will exist with the capability to sequence different velocity triggers in a pattern though.

User avatar
revtor
Dialing it in..
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:31 am
Location: North Jerz

Post by revtor » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:38 am

Maybe length of the trigger pulse has something to do with response across a variety of machines. More time for the analog circuits to rise and or/sustain...?
With MidiBox Seq trig time is adjustable...

sleestack808
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:45 am

Post by sleestack808 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:58 pm

You'd have to use some rack gear to amplify the trigger or reduce the trigger.

Panason
is banned
is banned
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:56 am

Post by Panason » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:44 pm

shreddoggie wrote:
The OT sequencer is really good. The main shortcoming is that you can't name much of anything which makes performing nearly impossible for me:

Track 5 part 11 has sound B-112 on synth 4 with CC#54 mapped to knob 3 - this aint happening.

.
Yeah, this is the standard problem with most hardware sequencers,...perhaps some masking tape or printed stickers would help to label the MIDI tracks and have them permanently assigned to specific MIDI channels, and save the setup as a default project template...

AndreasD
Common Wiggler
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:04 pm

Post by AndreasD » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:50 pm

Cirklon DMUX can output up to 10V with velocity setting trigger levels per step.
So, you can use e.g. a Nord Drum 2's trigger inputs with full velocity control.

gruebleengourd
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:49 am

Post by gruebleengourd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:26 pm

nodog wrote: I don't think a sequencer will exist with the capability to sequence different velocity triggers in a pattern though.
My preference is to use an mpc and send snare samples out the individual outputs to use for level sensitive triggers. Velocity to volume on the snare.

sleestack808
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:45 am

Post by sleestack808 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:00 pm

AndreasD wrote:Cirklon DMUX can output up to 10V with velocity setting trigger levels per step.
So, you can use e.g. a Nord Drum 2's trigger inputs with full velocity control.
You can adjust the level of the voltage?

User avatar
chiasticon
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: the heart of it all

Post by chiasticon » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:52 am

Panason wrote:Yeah, this is the standard problem with most hardware sequencers,...perhaps some masking tape or printed stickers would help to label the MIDI tracks and have them permanently assigned to specific MIDI channels, and save the setup as a default project template...
Octatrack makes a great sequencer. I didn't start pining for a Cirklon until I got to the point where I had more stuff to sequence than the OT had sequencing tracks. then I kept a list of which midi channel everything was on and had to re-configure the OT tracks for each song, and remember where each was, etc... I still have to remember what each track is with the Cirklon, but clicking each active one, it has the name of the instrument instead of just a midi channel number I have to cross-reference.

Cirklon certainly has more tricks up its sleeve and it's a better hub for sequencing than the OT. but the basics of it are in the OT too.

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6306
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:58 pm

chiasticon wrote:I still have to remember what each track is with the Cirklon, but clicking each active one, it has the name of the instrument instead of just a midi channel number I have to cross-reference.
Why is that? Don't you name your tracks? I don't have any problem with having to remember which track is which.

User avatar
shreddoggie
Wiggling like a Pomeranian
Posts: 591
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 7:04 pm

Post by shreddoggie » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:49 pm

The Cirklon has a better naming stuff paradigm. You can't make a custom name for everything but it is much better than the OT in that when you are working it from the front panel / encoders / knobs / buttons etc there are many things that have sufficient info and often names you've created. Certainly no sequencer is ideal in this regard but the Cirklon is pretty decent and the OT is sadly pretty poor.

re: Below - the midi channel / port / instrument data is all right there provided you actually take a moment to set it up - not doing so would be verging on idiotic in my opinion. Its quite well designed in this regard.
chiasticon wrote:
Panason wrote:Yeah, this is the standard problem with most hardware sequencers,...perhaps some masking tape or printed stickers would help to label the MIDI tracks and have them permanently assigned to specific MIDI channels, and save the setup as a default project template...
Octatrack makes a great sequencer. I didn't start pining for a Cirklon until I got to the point where I had more stuff to sequence than the OT had sequencing tracks. then I kept a list of which midi channel everything was on and had to re-configure the OT tracks for each song, and remember where each was, etc... I still have to remember what each track is with the Cirklon, but clicking each active one, it has the name of the instrument instead of just a midi channel number I have to cross-reference.

Cirklon certainly has more tricks up its sleeve and it's a better hub for sequencing than the OT. but the basics of it are in the OT too.
Bruce Lee wrote:"Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle. In short, enter a mold without being caged in it. Obey the principle without being bound by it. LEARN, MASTER AND ACHIEVE!!!"

User avatar
chiasticon
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: the heart of it all

Post by chiasticon » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:58 am

shreddoggie wrote:re: Below - the midi channel / port / instrument data is all right there provided you actually take a moment to set it up - not doing so would be verging on idiotic in my opinion. Its quite well designed in this regard.
of course! this was one of the primary reasons I wanted one. I've got 20+ instruments configured...
dubonaire wrote:Why is that? Don't you name your tracks? I don't have any problem with having to remember which track is which.
yes, but when you're just staring at the thing and you want to mute/unmute some tracks, you still don't know which is which. you have to individually make each track the active track in order to see what it is.

that's why you see stuff like this (Simian Mobile Disco):
Image

Panason
is banned
is banned
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:56 am

Post by Panason » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:38 pm

And this is why the screen(s) must extend all along the top of the row of buttons/ knobs.
An even more serious machine should have a display or two to cover that, and 4 rows of 16 buttons and knobs, for simultaneous 4 track sequencing a-la Polyend or Deluge. Shame that those two are so gimped in other ways.

User avatar
chiasticon
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: the heart of it all

Post by chiasticon » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:50 pm

Panason wrote:And this is why the screen(s) must extend all along the top of the row of buttons/ knobs.
yeah, but you can have up to 64 tracks on the Cirklon...

really the screen should have a mode to show you what each track is. or maybe it does! I am still pretty new to the thing!

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6306
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm

chiasticon wrote: yes, but when you're just staring at the thing and you want to mute/unmute some tracks, you still don't know which is which. you have to individually make each track the active track in order to see what it is.
Oh gotcha. Because I only use it in the studio and I use a mixing desk I don't tend to mute on the Cirklon much.
chiasticon wrote:
Panason wrote:And this is why the screen(s) must extend all along the top of the row of buttons/ knobs.
yeah, but you can have up to 64 tracks on the Cirklon...

really the screen should have a mode to show you what each track is. or maybe it does! I am still pretty new to the thing!
That would be nice to have such a screen for Scene and Track mode - a second narrower screen would be better, but of course make it bigger and more expensive.

No chiasticon ot doesn't have such a mode.

User avatar
chiasticon
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: the heart of it all

Post by chiasticon » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:09 pm

dubonaire wrote:No chiasticon ot doesn't have such a mode.
that would be pretty fantastic if it did, but I think it'd be tricky to fit on the screen. you'd have to display maybe four columns of four names each, for each track. and refresh it when you change "banks" of tracks.

I don't plan on using it live either, and I don't use a mixing desk for mutes. likely the longer I use it, the more I'll develop a pattern for which track I'm assigning each instrument to and this will be a non-issue anyway...

User avatar
Bath House
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Post by Bath House » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:52 pm

One thing nobody is mentioning is that when in track mode, each track’s LED pulses in time to show what the track is doing. Between this, self-adopted conventions like habitually using certain track numbers or groups for specific instruments, and also glancing at the screen for the selected track name, I basically am never unsure of what’s happening on what track.
Catholic Roland Modular New Age Acid:
www.goodglassrecords.com

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6306
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:13 am

Bath House wrote:One thing nobody is mentioning is that when in track mode, each track’s LED pulses in time to show what the track is doing. Between this, self-adopted conventions like habitually using certain track numbers or groups for specific instruments, and also glancing at the screen for the selected track name, I basically am never unsure of what’s happening on what track.
Yeah I was going to say just that. But sometimes following the LEDs can get a bit complicated. I always follow the same conventions - the first 8 are percussion largely following general X0X order - currently a Roland Integra. 9-10 are REV2 and Peak. 11-18 are modular 1-8. 19 is Digitone, and the next few are more open to change. This is also how I arrange the mixing desk, tracks in Ableton and order the MIDI as well. So I kind of have this studio wide mental image.

User avatar
slumberjack
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:27 am
Location: 44G
Contact:

Post by slumberjack » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:40 am

i don't have to label any tracks. 1-16 are memorized in my spongebrain and 16-32 i sometimes have to check with a click on the button. it's a charm!

User avatar
Bobby
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: avoiding Muff's for a bit

Post by Bobby » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:52 am

slumberjack wrote:i don't have to label any tracks. 1-16 are memorized in my spongebrain and 16-32 i sometimes have to check with a click on the button. it's a charm!
me too: not an issue for me at all and i move my tracks around a bit. only very small/ occasional problem i have is wanting to a second row of buttons so i can mute/unmute more on the fly.... haven't looked but i guess this might be possible with an external controller tho. (if not ill get a second Cirk at some point. Love the thing)

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6306
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:59 am

Bobby wrote:
slumberjack wrote:i don't have to label any tracks. 1-16 are memorized in my spongebrain and 16-32 i sometimes have to check with a click on the button. it's a charm!
me too: not an issue for me at all. only very small/ occasional problem i have is wanting to a second row of buttons so i can mute/unmute more on the fly.... haven't looked but i guess this might be possible with an external controller tho. (if not ill get a second Cirk at some point. Love the thing)
All you have to do is press or turn the BAR encoder to step through the banks. It's really quick. I think getting a second Cirklon is overkill for just that.

User avatar
Bobby
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: avoiding Muff's for a bit

Post by Bobby » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:03 am

dubonaire wrote:
Bobby wrote:
slumberjack wrote:i don't have to label any tracks. 1-16 are memorized in my spongebrain and 16-32 i sometimes have to check with a click on the button. it's a charm!
me too: not an issue for me at all. only very small/ occasional problem i have is wanting to a second row of buttons so i can mute/unmute more on the fly.... haven't looked but i guess this might be possible with an external controller tho. (if not ill get a second Cirk at some point. Love the thing)
All you have to do is press or turn the BAR encoder to step through the banks. It's really quick. I think getting a second Cirklon is overkill for just that.
yep i know, key words are "on the fly" tho. Cant really mute across the two pages on the fly.

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6306
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:14 am

Bobby wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
Bobby wrote:
slumberjack wrote:i don't have to label any tracks. 1-16 are memorized in my spongebrain and 16-32 i sometimes have to check with a click on the button. it's a charm!
me too: not an issue for me at all. only very small/ occasional problem i have is wanting to a second row of buttons so i can mute/unmute more on the fly.... haven't looked but i guess this might be possible with an external controller tho. (if not ill get a second Cirk at some point. Love the thing)
All you have to do is press or turn the BAR encoder to step through the banks. It's really quick. I think getting a second Cirklon is overkill for just that.
yep i know, key words are "on the fly" tho. Cant really mute across the two pages on the fly.
Oh c'mon man it's a few milliseconds and you only have ten fingers. I would need something special to be convinced that you can't set your tracks up to do your mutes one page at a time. All hardware has limitations and every artist up til now has got around those limitations. If that's what you need to do a mixer with submix groupings is way faster and cleaner.

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”