Desktop Prophet 12 coming

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EMwhite
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Post by EMwhite » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:39 am

He should have gone a bit further and put some $$ into the pots (say something like... we used military grade potentiometers which will last 20 years, just like the in the old days) and they are bolted to the panel from above and below; and we made a cover that attaches to it to keep the controls and panel graphics protected while in you back-pack. Without these two steps, the crappy $0.92 pots that he uses will start fucking up within a year. Unacceptable for a $2,200 synth.

As brilliant as the updated interface might be and the OLED very nice looking, the panel is very sparse and it wouldn't kill the look and feel of it to have several 'fixed' controls for certain functions which are more commonly tweaked during live performance.

There was a comment over at SonicState that was very interesting (see below). But maybe he doesn't care. I suppose that Dave's company is backed by investors and maybe with enough smaller, budget products in his portfolio being sold through Guitar center, he's got some room to lose some money on this. I just don't see everybody jumping on it. Yeah you can say "it's 12 voices though" well that's nice, but it doesn't justify the cost if short cuts are taken elsewhere in the design/build/playability. Just another opinion - we've all got 'em. :hihi:

"Dave Smith is too often too keen to charge extremely highly - at the highest end of the price range - based largely on his reputation (which is significant I fully accept) . His prices are 30 years outmoded and utterly out of line with most synth manufacturers; and out of reach of most musicians actually interested in these instruments. He failed as a business man in the past for these sorts of antics - can't he get the price / performance and manufacturing scale issues right; and make more of these for a cheaper unit manufacturing cost."
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CF3
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Post by CF3 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:51 pm

MoonPoly wrote:What exactly is it that makes the P12 so expensive??
"made in San Francisco" Everything here is twice as much as it needs to be. rent, food, gas... and yes, synthesizers. I'm a fan of Dave's work but he does indeed have a history of lets say inflated pricing. (almost $900 retail for a Tetra was :roll: 2G's for a Tempest :doh: ) All this being said.... I'm sure the P12 sounds and functions amazing. Dave does know what he's doing. When the price does eventually drop and it will, it will make somebody very happy to own one.

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Post by davydka » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:49 pm

I really like how the layering and split info is part of the patch, rather than making 2 patches and then having a "multis" section. Tuned feedback looks really cool. I'm kind of into this thing. I really wish the arpeggiator sent midi out though. :zombie:

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Bath House
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Post by Bath House » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:35 pm

Dave Smith can eat a dick after how they've handled the Tempest. 2.5 years out and it still doesn't have features they promised on a piece of paper in the box when it shipped. But yeah, keep launching new things, dude. :roll:
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Post by thesnow » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:49 pm

How does it shrink down from the MASSIVE Prophet 12 $3K keyboard all the way down to this size, look that cheesy and still stay at $2K+?

you must be trippin.

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GuyaGuy
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Post by GuyaGuy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:51 am

Yeah, I can't believe this synthesizer with 12 analog filters, a hardware interface, modular-like routing and 400 program slots doesn't cost $200 like a DX-7.

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Post by numan7 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:01 am

EMwhite wrote:He should have gone a bit further and put some $$ into the pots (say something like... we used military grade potentiometers which will last 20 years, just like the in the old days) and they are bolted to the panel from above and below; and we made a cover that attaches to it to keep the controls and panel graphics protected while in you back-pack. Without these two steps, the crappy $0.92 pots that he uses will start fucking up within a year. Unacceptable for a $2,200 synth.

As brilliant as the updated interface might be and the OLED very nice looking, the panel is very sparse and it wouldn't kill the look and feel of it to have several 'fixed' controls for certain functions which are more commonly tweaked during live performance.

There was a comment over at SonicState that was very interesting (see below). But maybe he doesn't care. I suppose that Dave's company is backed by investors and maybe with enough smaller, budget products in his portfolio being sold through Guitar center, he's got some room to lose some money on this. I just don't see everybody jumping on it. Yeah you can say "it's 12 voices though" well that's nice, but it doesn't justify the cost if short cuts are taken elsewhere in the design/build/playability. Just another opinion - we've all got 'em. :hihi:

"Dave Smith is too often too keen to charge extremely highly - at the highest end of the price range - based largely on his reputation (which is significant I fully accept) . His prices are 30 years outmoded and utterly out of line with most synth manufacturers; and out of reach of most musicians actually interested in these instruments. He failed as a business man in the past for these sorts of antics - can't he get the price / performance and manufacturing scale issues right; and make more of these for a cheaper unit manufacturing cost."
:tu: yep, the knobs seem very exposed and seem unlikely to survive repeated.shoving into backpacks, as he shows at the end of the vid (notice how he doesn't take it back out again! :lol:) without massive bendage and breakage if they're anything like what's on other dsi instruments i have played.

a six-filter version of p12 that had cleverly-designed 12 voice modes (e.g. that did something akin to voice-stealing, but just for filters/vcas instead of oscs/filters/vcas, splitting the oscs into one-per-voice, etc.) that had a truly ruggedized and fully-featured version of the p12 keyboard's control-panel.... and was priced at $1200.00 -- would have been nice. :deadbanana:

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goiks
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Post by goiks » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:58 pm

i'd pay san francisco prices for this if i could bring myself to like the sound of the filters.
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phase ghost
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Post by phase ghost » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:51 pm

Fuck no. Main reason I sold my mopho was because of the menu diving. I was looking forward to the module version of this synth too. Should have went the P08 route and kept the hands on control in tact.

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krv
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Post by krv » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:58 pm

phase ghost wrote:Fuck no.Should have went the P08 route and kept the hands on control in tact.

:tu:

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Post by StillNotWorking » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:07 pm

Waste of dekstop space. At this price we should have knobs when compared to the keyboard version. Anyone know if the knobs actually still works after 3 month on the P12key? There might be a reason he wont let us have it on the desktop. As I see it this will be a preset mashine and I would prefer it in a1U rack unit.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:15 pm

I actually see nothing wrong with the price, nor the interface. But like others, the knob issue (or the potential for one) is just such a huge turn off, whatever the price. I was just fiddling with the knobs on a korg sdd-1200 cheap, mid-'80s digital delay): those things were ROCK solid, with zero wobble, and still super smooth. Why on Earth does DSI think cheap knobs are a good idea? Admittedly, all SCI knobs have always felt "cheap", but I'd still take those over the new ones anyway.
Last edited by Sir Ruff on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

marcomoreno
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Post by marcomoreno » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:26 pm

The DSI Prophet 12 Desktop version is a joke. The Keyboard is quite nice but this Desktop version is to reduced for my taste :despair:

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Post by ollebergkvist » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:12 am

too pricey

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EMwhite
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Post by EMwhite » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:46 am

Sir Ruff wrote:... Admittedly, all SCI knobs have always felt "cheap", but I'd still take those over the knew ones anyway.
That's the funny thing. I have a Pro One with original pots. With the exception of the volume pot (which I don't care about) and one of the octave switches, every other pot is flawless, smooth turning, etc.

I can't say that for almost anything else; heck, even the most expensive so-called boutique ($1,200) modular modules use low-cost Alpha pots.

Dave missed the mark but I suppose if you have money like bricks, it's not big deal, buy 3 of them for when the other two fail. 3 years from now.
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celestial tomes
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Post by celestial tomes » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:55 pm

This is the Prophet 12 for people who like headaches :bang:

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Post by StillNotWorking » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:29 am

Regarding encoders. Not sure if it's way they are implemented or the encoders them self. Back in the days I've modded Yamaha A5000 and EMU samples with good results. Just adding small capacitors on the wires coming from the encoders. I've not seen any reports if that work on DSI devices?

DSI official reason for the updated PE board on P08 was "the feel of the knobs". Although that might be true, me failing to find a working P08 or Tera in the used marked might also tell a side story.

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Post by darmklacht@gmail.com » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:50 pm

anyone by now ever used one?

What are the opinions? I could be in the market for a p12 but don't have the space for the full thing

I really love to change sounds quickly and spontaniously, though that isn't exactly what Im expecting in the P 12. editing an Osc would always be a button away on the KBD so will two buttons deep menu on the desktop module make it that much worse? I really wish it would have had the two touch sliders to make up for it.

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Post by dubnspace » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:19 pm

yes, I have a p12 module. I like it, it's laid out well and most things are still just a button press, or two away. I

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Post by davydka » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:37 pm

darmklacht@gmail.com wrote:anyone by now ever used one?

What are the opinions? I could be in the market for a p12 but don't have the space for the full thing

I really love to change sounds quickly and spontaniously, though that isn't exactly what Im expecting in the P 12. editing an Osc would always be a button away on the KBD so will two buttons deep menu on the desktop module make it that much worse? I really wish it would have had the two touch sliders to make up for it.
I had one for a while. It was awesome. Three of my favorite things about it were 1) going to a gig with just that in a backpack and a small midi controller 2) using it on the couch 3) lots of crazy sounds, especially the distortion

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Post by Phase47 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:51 pm

darmklacht@gmail.com wrote:anyone by now ever used one?

What are the opinions? I could be in the market for a p12 but don't have the space for the full thing

I really love to change sounds quickly and spontaniously, though that isn't exactly what Im expecting in the P 12. editing an Osc would always be a button away on the KBD so will two buttons deep menu on the desktop module make it that much worse? I really wish it would have had the two touch sliders to make up for it.
I have one. It is, hands-down, the best editing / logic on a desktop module (or any synth for that matter) that I've ever used. It's very fast to get around. No menu-diving, no lab coat required. It's just very fun to program.

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darmklacht@gmail.com
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Post by darmklacht@gmail.com » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:25 pm

OK that sounds positiv. Dave Should have put up a software version of just the interface. So people on the fence could see how many buttons away all the parameters are.

Thanks for the awnsers

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Post by justintonation » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:01 pm

For this type of money the prophet 6 desktop looks more appealing. It has dedicated knobs for every function and a complete analog signal path. What am I missing re the prophet 12? What is the significant point of difference.

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Post by dubnspace » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:05 am

justintonation wrote:For this type of money the prophet 6 desktop looks more appealing. It has dedicated knobs for every function and a complete analog signal path. What am I missing re the prophet 12? What is the significant point of difference.
that for some who already have plenty of analog synths, having something different with 4 digital oscillators capable of more than your SAW/TRI/PULSE, 4 LFOs's, 4 envelopes, 12 voices, dual analog LPF/HPF filters, tuned feedback, ability to do splits and layers,FM capabilities, etc.. is a lot more appealing than another bog standard 2 OSC subtractive synth...

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Post by dc_Sux » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:02 am

dubnspace wrote:
justintonation wrote:For this type of money the prophet 6 desktop looks more appealing. It has dedicated knobs for every function and a complete analog signal path. What am I missing re the prophet 12? What is the significant point of difference.
that for some who already have plenty of analog synths, having something different with 4 digital oscillators capable of more than your SAW/TRI/PULSE, 4 LFOs's, 4 envelopes, 12 voices, dual analog LPF/HPF filters, tuned feedback, ability to do splits and layers,FM capabilities, etc.. is a lot more appealing than another bog standard 2 OSC subtractive synth...
tbh, the Prophet name is a little misleading in the case of the P12.
I bought mine for the FM and digital waveforms who's shape can be modulated.
Plus, the fact that there are 4 oscs/voice (8 if you are stacking voices, and 48 if in unison!). That offers a lot more options, than the P6, which no doubt sounds better for bread and butter 2 osc subtractive analog poly duties*.

*assumption here. I've not used one.

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