Classic software lost to the ether of new computing

Reaktor, MAX/MSP, VST/AU, etc. A place for all things soft....

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j_dowe
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Post by j_dowe » Thu May 09, 2019 10:32 am

re: Soundhack
I used the old version... but haven't kept up with the more recent version. Does the newer versions not have all the same algorithms?

re: old Digidesign
I remember being able to get weird sounds out of Sound Designer (abusing it). I see mentions of Turbosynth and wonder if I'd love it.
Last edited by j_dowe on Fri May 10, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Monotremata
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Post by Monotremata » Fri May 10, 2019 2:45 am

bhinton wrote:Did Metro die or does it still exist?
Yes, Hyperprism! And the same company did an attempt at a "trackless" DAW if I recall correctly...
Didnt Arboretum do a standalone sampler way back in like 1997/98 called Unity or am I mixing them up with someone else?? It was like THE big thing back then cause no one had really done one yet heh. There was no Halion, EXS, nothing back then. VSTi's didnt even exist yet.

Was Metro a company? I remember Cakewalk had a product out at one time called Cakewalk Metro.

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Post by Yes Powder » Thu May 23, 2019 6:53 pm

dubonaire wrote:Propellerhead ReBirth RB-338

Image
I came here to say this. This is how I got into making electronic music. I was excited when they made the iPhone version, but now that's abandoned too!
I miss playing around with Tassman also, and I never got to get the full version of that. Would've loved to play around with it more.

And this fucking iPhone app... Curtis Heavy, by The Strange Agency. I still want my fucking $8 back for when they update-replaced it with a free version of their new and "improved" app MegaCurtis.

Futuresound

Post by Futuresound » Thu May 23, 2019 6:56 pm

Stomper

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Post by kwaidan » Thu May 23, 2019 8:07 pm

Yes Powder wrote:
dubonaire wrote:Propellerhead ReBirth RB-338

Image
I came here to say this. This is how I got into making electronic music. I was excited when they made the iPhone version, but now that's abandoned too!
Roland made Propellerhead pull their RB-338 app, claiming copyright infringement.

I used to like the Phaedra app, but it’s no longer around.

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Yes Powder
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Post by Yes Powder » Thu May 23, 2019 9:33 pm

kwaidan wrote:Roland made Propellerhead pull their RB-338 app, claiming copyright infringement.
Dafuq, was Roland suddenly salty that nobody wanted their $400 virtual analog when people could just get a $9 one on their phone instead that actually had more features?

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solipsvs
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Post by solipsvs » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:53 am

technotoys arpx8

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Post by gruebleengourd » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:41 am

seychmar wrote: And the absolute gem: Dr T KCS with Programmable Variations Generator and Tunesmith (Atari ST) - no modern equivalent anywhere near what these can do with MIDI.
Since a couple of people have mentioned Dr T's KCS ... I agree fully.

So much so that I've written a modern version for Windows with the good Dr's blessing and reference code.

I'll aiming for beta testing in about a month, so if anybody is a KCS head, using windows, and would like to give some feedback let me know.

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Post by seychmar » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:11 am

Wow! That’s really great news! Will it include the PVG?

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Post by gruebleengourd » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:17 pm

seychmar wrote:Wow! That’s really great news! Will it include the PVG?
Yeah it's got PVG functionality, although I am not going to claim that it has 100% identical PVG. Even though I have access to most of the source code, I am not implementing things the same way, so in the minumum, the minutiae will be different. However, I do have a recreation of the classic PVG interface and it does all that it did. A bonus is that it's available and functional while the sequencer is playing. In fact, it and anything else in the program is itself sequenceable (probabilistically if you like) while the sequencer is running.

This project started as a KCS inspired sequencer, then I got assistance from Dr T, but then I decided to take a more expansive approach, and what I have now is essentially a programmable sequencer environment running the equivalent of a core KCS level II shell on top.

I am not porting every aspect of KCS or every MPE. Track mode, open mode, and the PVG are what I consider the core features, and the program is inspired by the spririt of KCS. Considering the power of todays computers, it goes a lot deeper and everything is "real time" responsive.
I'm also integrating some other classic permissively licensed computer music systems.
Last edited by gruebleengourd on Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

seychmar
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Post by seychmar » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:51 am

That sounds even more interesting. Really looking forward to this. The PVG and Open Mode were really ahead of their time when KCS Omega was launched. One suggestion I can already make is to allow launching of open mode sequences via midi and not only via keystrokes as per the original KCS. The humanisation and fill generation features in KCS are also unequalled in most modern software.

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Post by GrantB » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:27 am

Back in the 90s I worked on a team at Microsoft making music and sounds with their Interactive Music Architecture and a proprietary composition toolchain. They had bought out Blue Ribbon Soundworks, known for their Bars and Pipes sequencer, and had those developers on another team creating these tools.

The IMA tools allowed you to break down a MIDI sequence into tracks and patterns and recompose them interactively in real time via probability, variation patterns, and a chord change map with probabilities on the paths. The output was via a software synth with GM soundset licensed from Roland, which was quite limited. It did have excellent response to MIDI CCs (which were also subject to pattern probability) and could load samples via the DLS standard. This system was used to provide a consistent (and interactive) soundtrack to MSN news and entertainment programming (over dialup bandwidth, no streaming in those days) and for game music and sound effects.

This architecture eventually became DirectMusic and DirectMusic Producer which seem to have been left in the digital dust at this point. Anyway, I've never seen anything else quite like the IMA tools. They could play your tunes on and on forever but never sound "generative", and ebb and flow with the graphics and user interactions.

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GrantB
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Post by GrantB » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:32 am

Moon Indigo wrote:Cakewalk for DOS version 2.0.
I made some of my best stuff on that, and 3.0 on Windows. And my badass 32 channel Midi Quest interface card, rock solid.

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Post by gruebleengourd » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:16 am

seychmar wrote: One suggestion I can already make is to allow launching of open mode sequences via midi and not only via keystrokes as per the original KCS.
In essence, it's possible to convert anything the program does into a sequence-able action, and map that to any kind of midi input.

One cool trick for that is that which user interface being exposed in the primary window can be sequenced so that different parts of a song automatically switch between different graphical or otherwise interaction modes.

It also has command line input and embedded language for function generation

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thee ghost ov n_phay
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Post by thee ghost ov n_phay » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:43 pm

Intelligent Music "M", mentioned upthread, would be my pick, I would actually really like a hardware desktop version of this.

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Post by GrantB » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:26 pm

thee ghost ov n_phay wrote:Intelligent Music "M", mentioned upthread, would be my pick, I would actually really like a hardware desktop version of this.
That looks awesome. It's funny that for such a music and computer nerd like myself, I never had an ST. I got my hands on just about everything else though: Apple II, PC, Mac, C64, TRS-80, Amiga, CP/M, NeXT, VAX, Linux...

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Post by sneak-thief » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:48 pm

gruebleengourd wrote:
seychmar wrote: And the absolute gem: Dr T KCS with Programmable Variations Generator and Tunesmith (Atari ST) - no modern equivalent anywhere near what these can do with MIDI.
Since a couple of people have mentioned Dr T's KCS ... I agree fully.

So much so that I've written a modern version for Windows with the good Dr's blessing and reference code.

I'll aiming for beta testing in about a month, so if anybody is a KCS head, using windows, and would like to give some feedback let me know.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat? :woah:

This is excellent news. Thank you for carrying the torch on this one. Dr. T was truly a sequencing visionary, along with folks like Bill Marshall/Pete Kellock (Zyklus) and David Zicarelli ("M", Max/MSP).

I've been ranting for years now that "intelligent" software sequencer development peaked in the early 90's then atrophied into a sad, shriveled raisin.
http://sneak-thief.com - raw electro-funk!

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Post by okiikahuna » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:06 am

Although I never used it personally, I saw some fun stuff people did with MTV Music Generator, including some interesting if rudimentary, videos. Anybody else remember that one?

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Post by jonne74 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:50 pm

Moon Indigo wrote:Cakewalk for DOS version 2.0.
When I moved from Amiga 500 trackers to MIDI, I started with Cakewalk Apprentice. It was a lite version of Cakewalk. Simple and reliable. It might've been on Win 3.1.

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Post by calaveras » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:27 pm

What about the discontinued TC Powercore.
That was bailed on by TC before Windows 7/8 and 10 came out.
So I doubt any driver support exists for it, even if you can get around the auth server problem. Quite sure Behringer isn't putting any resources towards that effort.
Darn shame, I really liked the TC plugins.

Seconded on Cooledit Pro. Audacity is similar, but doesnt have all the geeky features.

I also really miss old Sonar 4-6.
I always wished that they would have stopped layering in new features and instead just worked on stability and workflow refinements. But the way the bugteam worked, issues around integrating new features seemed to take precedence over existing issues from prior versions. So old broken shit never got fixed, new broken shit would get an immediate response.
I think I got on some peoples nerves when I was beta-testing. Can't say I was mad when Roland shut down the beta test program.

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Post by gruebleengourd » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:16 am

calaveras wrote: Seconded on Cooledit Pro. Audacity is similar, but doesnt have all the geeky features.
Didn't Cooledit become the Adobe Wave editor program Audition?

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Post by calaveras » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:38 am

In theory, but it is way more cluttered now than when it was Cooledit.

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SmartBits
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Post by SmartBits » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:14 am

Back in the day I had quite some fun with Soundraider. Not sure if it still runs on recent Windows versions, I should try it...:

http://sunseastar.com/awraider.html
Tired of hearing the same old sounds on your computer day in, day out? Rather than changing the sounds, maybe you should change their context. A new shareware program will search your computer for sound files, then manipulate and string them together to create otherworldly, ambient music whose underlying familiarity adds to its intrigue.

SoundRaider was developed by British programmer and experimental musician Andy Wilson, who drew inspiration from generative music composers, who write computer programs that automatically create music.

Wilson admired works of generative music such as Brian Eno's "Koan," but wanted something more like "'real world' sound, sound that everyone might be familiar with," he said.
As a result, SoundRaider plunders its host and plays up to 10 sounds at a time, which have been stretched, compressed, and looped. The result, says Wilson, "is sometimes a bit like listening to your machine cursing, singing, and muttering to itself."
Wilson compares the program's creations to "isolationist ambient" music, and says that "many people - of strong disposition - like to leave it running on the desktop while they work."
Next on Wilson's plate may be a version that trawls the whole Net for sounds. Maybe the sounds of the Web's internal conversations will be the signature symphony for the end of the century.

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Post by perplx » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:03 pm

gruebleengourd wrote:
calaveras wrote: Seconded on Cooledit Pro. Audacity is similar, but doesnt have all the geeky features.
Didn't Cooledit become the Adobe Wave editor program Audition?
CoolEdit was so lean, it took like 1/10th of a second to fully start up, on a PC from the 90's. I know people who still clutch to their old copies like their life depends on them. I wish I still had mine

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Post by glissant » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:41 pm

I had some sweet apps from TC Works that I used a lot way back in the early 2000s. Spark and some reverb thing. It was a long time before I found a reverb I liked as much, and Spark was really handy for mastering my CD-rs.

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