Volta - Clock / Trigger Seq - Always Running?!

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wwbjd
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Volta - Clock / Trigger Seq - Always Running?!

Post by wwbjd » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:09 pm

I'm using DP 6.02.

I just started experimenting with the trigger seq and clock from Volta this evening. They're always running! I don't even have to hit play, spacebar, etc in DP in order to "play", they're just always running!

How do I make it so it's sync'd to the transport controls of DP?

Also, the clock seems to be running REALLY fast? even at 24ppb(ppq?) when clocking my Z8000 or clock dividers they're running so fast that all I see are solid lights!

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Re: Volta - Clock / Trigger Seq - Always Running?!

Post by doctorvague » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:28 am

wwbjd wrote:I'm using DP 6.02.

I just started experimenting with the trigger seq and clock from Volta this evening. They're always running! I don't even have to hit play, spacebar, etc in DP in order to "play", they're just always running!

How do I make it so it's sync'd to the transport controls of DP?

Also, the clock seems to be running REALLY fast? even at 24ppb(ppq?) when clocking my Z8000 or clock dividers they're running so fast that all I see are solid lights!
Yes it always runs and so do the trigger sequencers. people have brought this up as a request. There's request thread around here somewhere... or better still write to MOTU about it. I think most would agree that is not desirable.

I think of the clock module as more for DIN sync-type applications. If you want slower clocks use the trigger sequencer, just be sure to lower the duration way down. I set them at 5. They default at 100 which won't work to trigger anything. They should at least default to 50 or something besides 100 IMO. The nice thing about the trigger seq is you can pick any rhythmic division you like and get super-tight timing. The bad part is, yes it's on all the goddamn time. :doh:

One trick with the trigger sequencer is you can send off beat clocks too. Like select 16th notes but just turn on the even numbered sliders. Set up 2 and send the On beats somewhere and the Off beats somewhere else. Great fun. The triggers sequencers are what I use most in Volta.

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Post by wwbjd » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:48 am

Well that's just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Yeah, the trigger seq is very nice. Too bad I can't sync its output to anything. Sure, it plays at the project tempo, but if it's always outputting to a module.. just.. ARGH WHAT THE HELL!?!

Why would the clock run so damn fast?

I guess I'll just be stuck with a few bits of huge pieces of hardware to make up for the fact that I can't just run a reliable sync clock via one cable from Volta.

Did have great fun last night sending gates via Volta to control the direction of the Z8000 as well as resets to it. Was getting a nice 32/48 step sequence out of the Z8000! :) Now if I could just clock the Z8000 from Volta......

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Post by doctorvague » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:20 am

wwbjd wrote:Well that's just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Yeah, the trigger seq is very nice. Too bad I can't sync its output to anything. Sure, it plays at the project tempo, but if it's always outputting to a module.. just.. ARGH WHAT THE HELL!?!

Why would the clock run so damn fast?

I guess I'll just be stuck with a few bits of huge pieces of hardware to make up for the fact that I can't just run a reliable sync clock via one cable from Volta.

Did have great fun last night sending gates via Volta to control the direction of the Z8000 as well as resets to it. Was getting a nice 32/48 step sequence out of the Z8000! :) Now if I could just clock the Z8000 from Volta......
I clock all my stuff all the time with the trigger sequencers and the timing is great. I don't understand at all what your issue is from your post. You can get whatever clock division you want from the trigger seq and create as many of them as you have physical outputs. You can also generate a reset pulse by setting a trigger seq to 1 or 2 measures to reset a hardware sequencer etc.

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Post by wwbjd » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:37 am

Yep, timing seems to be great.

My only real issue is (and probably blown out of proportion) is that the trigger seq and clock are always running (step seq too? -- haven't tried it yet).

So, I'm trying to sync my Z8000. If I run a clock from Volta to the Z8000, it just runs too fast.. way too fast and is always running. I'm not sure why and I probably don't understand it. But when I run a clock from say my Mobius or Clockwork to the Z8000, it runs properly, at the right tempo, recognizes start/stop etc.

If I use the Trigger Seq to clock the Z8000, it's much better.. has better control as to when the Z8000 steps. However, it's always running.. which makes me angry.

Otherwise having fun with the features!

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Post by felix » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:55 pm

I don't have Volta yet, but it looks like you can set a pulse resolution. 96 is going to be really fast (that's like 128th notes I think), so try something lower.

I can't find a manual online (that's actually what I came fishing in the subforum here for), but I would imagine it would list what the various pulse numbers would equate to.
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Post by parasitk » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:03 pm

Patch it into a VCA before sending it to where ever and gate it on and off. It'll keep running in your DAW, but only actually trigger your modular when you gate the VCA "on". Or if you're clocking a sequencer that has a Reset in, you can patch a gate to that. That's what I do, anyway.

Also yeah lower your note speed in the trigger sequencer, or if you're using the clock lower the pulses/beat way down from 96.

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Post by wwbjd » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:20 pm

Hrmm.. yeah, I've tried 48, 24, 12, 6 (ppb), etc.. but it is still clocking extremely fast (even at 120bpm / 80bpm etc).

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Post by MrBiggs » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:24 pm

felix wrote:I can't find a manual online (that's actually what I came fishing in the subforum here for), but I would imagine it would list what the various pulse numbers would equate to.
The manual is only in printed form, oddly. I emailed MOTU and asked for one months before buying Volta. And the manual is at the studio, where I'm not. Except for the copyright issue I'm tempted to scan it and post it here as a PDF. It would really be useful.

But iirc:
The clock resolution is 1/96th, which freaked me out at first. But my Seq02 has 1/16 or 1/96 so I can use it or not. That being said, I never use it since the trigger seqs are so good and so flexible. I don't remember having a problem with the constant running, though. Not saying it's not the case, just saying it didn't seem to cause my any problems when I use it. I'll set it up tomorrow and see what I see.
I totally agree that the trigger seqs' duration should default to something much less than 100, since at 100 they are useless. That's plain old weird.
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Post by MrBiggs » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:26 pm

wwbjd wrote:Hrmm.. yeah, I've tried 48, 24, 12, 6 (ppb), etc.. but it is still clocking extremely fast (even at 120bpm / 80bpm etc).
I don't understand this. If you change the divisions, the clock should slow. It's not working? Or it's not acting as expected?
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Post by wwbjd » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:29 pm

MrBiggs wrote:
wwbjd wrote:Hrmm.. yeah, I've tried 48, 24, 12, 6 (ppb), etc.. but it is still clocking extremely fast (even at 120bpm / 80bpm etc).
I don't understand this. If you change the divisions, the clock should slow. It's not working? Or it's not acting as expected?
Not working as expected. Maybe I'll try again this evening and put up some audio.

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Post by wwbjd » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:31 am

No audio, but just tried it again. I was mistaken earlier when I had said I tried lower ppb's. 24 is as low as Volta's clock goes.

And it's always running.. so if I'm clocking my Z8000 with it, the Z8000 is constantly cycling through its steps.

Anyway, no big whoop I guess. I'll just have to use a different clock source (Kenton Pro 2000 and Mobius are both clocking fine and as expected.. and sync to midi start/stop!)

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Post by doctorvague » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:47 am

I've re-read this whole thread and can't understand what is the issue here. This is especially confusing:
Yeah, the trigger seq is very nice. Too bad I can't sync its output to anything. Sure, it plays at the project tempo, but if it's always outputting to a module.. just.. ARGH WHAT THE HELL!?!
If I use the Trigger Seq to clock the Z8000, it's much better.. has better control as to when the Z8000 steps. However, it's always running.. which makes me angry.
You've said several times the fact it won't stop with the transport pisses you off. OK, we can't fix that so let's set that aside for the moment. Let's also set aside the clock for now and just talk about the trigger seq as suggested several times. Did the trigger seq work? Did you lower the duration to a small number? Did it not work at all? Did you try different note divisions to get the speed you want? It should work and if it doesn't there must be something wrong that possibly could be corrected but there's not much hard information to go on here. If it's not working, then please describe what isn't working about it. Is it clocking but skipping occasional steps? Running at double speed? Half speed? Specifically what isn't happening that should be?

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Post by MrBiggs » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:10 am

Sounds like two things:

1. The clock is "too fast." 1/96 is too fast for clocking anything that expects 1/16, but perfect for stuff that expects 1/96. The suggestion was to not use the clock -- rather a trigger seq.

2. The clock and sequencers in Volta never stop.
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Post by doctorvague » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:42 am

MrBiggs wrote:Sounds like two things:

1. The clock is "too fast." 1/96 is too fast for clocking anything that expects 1/16, but perfect for stuff that expects 1/96. The suggestion was to not use the clock -- rather a trigger seq.

2. The clock and sequencers in Volta never stop.
Yeah I thought after I posted that it might be just a confusion about DIN-sync type clock and normal analog sequencers clock input. They are different beasts. DIN-sync devices are expecting 96 or 48 ppq and have a divider built-in that divides that down to 16th notes (for example) and since this is usually invisible to the user the divider goes unnoticed. Most modern analog sequencers don't have a divider built in and expect a literal clock of the desired musical division. IOW if you want the sequencer to run at 16ths then you send it triggers at 16ths - there's no divider or math involved. That's why I say don't use the clock, you need to use the trigger sequencer with most modern analog sequencers and simply set it to the desired clock division in Volta and lower Volta's duration way down so you're sending a narrow pulse trigger. The Volta clock is the wrong tool for the job to sync up modern analog sequencers, like Doepfer, dotcom, Moon Modular, Modcan etc etc.

OTOH if you want to incorporate a hardware divider like the MOTM 730 THEN you could use Volta's clock module and do the rhythmic dividing at the MOTM divider.

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Post by wwbjd » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:31 am

doctorvague wrote:Yeah I thought after I posted that it might be just a confusion about DIN-sync type clock and normal analog sequencers clock input. They are different beasts. DIN-sync devices are expecting 96 or 48 ppq and have a divider built-in that divides that down to 16th notes (for example) and since this is usually invisible to the user the divider goes unnoticed. Most modern analog sequencers don't have a divider built in and expect a literal clock of the desired musical division.
That's fantastic info Doctor. I had no idea. I will tinker around with the Volta clock through some clock dividers.. didn't even occur to me to try that out! :bang:

Concerning the trigger sequencer, the functionality there is fantastic. I just need to wrap my head around gating the output of what it's triggering, which I'll play with over the next couple of days.

There's nothing wrong with the trigger sequencer, other than it's always running and doesn't start/stop with the transport (yes, beating a dead horse here!)

Definitely a lot of options with Volta, too many maybe :)

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Post by parasitk » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:34 am

wwbjd wrote:There's nothing wrong with the trigger sequencer, other than it's always running and doesn't start/stop with the transport (yes, beating a dead horse here!)
It does restart with the transport though.

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Post by felix » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:36 pm

parasitk wrote:
wwbjd wrote:There's nothing wrong with the trigger sequencer, other than it's always running and doesn't start/stop with the transport (yes, beating a dead horse here!)
It does restart with the transport though.
Oh, that's rather nice. When wwbjd mention that it was always running, in my head I thought "well, I could see cases where that would be preferred". For example, I was syncing my modular to Logic this weekend via the Flame Clockwork and it was rather annoying that I had to have the transport running just to get the MIDI clock. I frequently was muting recorded tracks in Logic so I could listen to the modular and work something out.

The only downside, I thought, to having Volta's sequencers always running is they would get out of phase with the DAW transport, but since they reset on start, that solves that aspect.

I could still see someone wanting it to be silent though. I think I would prefer it's current behavior though, now knowing that the sequencers reset on start of transport.
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Post by dogoftears » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:34 pm

ohkay, you guys DO know that if yr running non-stop clock sources from Volta and you close the Volta instrument window, the modulators stop outputting? I personally like that they drone out the clock without the transport running, so i can jam out a sound without having to play the rest of the mix back. and when i get annoyed by it, just close the Volta window and the sound goes away, until i hit play... on transport play all the modulators output whether volta window is open or not.

the other work around is to run yr entire patch thru a VCA and gate it with a Volta envelope triggerd by an long-hold midi-note from yr DAW. that way you dont hear any thing til u hit play and the playhead is over that midi note.

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Post by serginofuturino » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:28 pm

I have the opposite problem, if I make an aggregate audio unit in Mac osx than the triggers in Volta (logic 8.2) won't start....

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Post by JRamella » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:43 pm

So... is the clock sync'd to the timing in DP? Also... can you build a 1/4" to MIDI cable and use the clock as a sample-accurate clock, aka Innerclock?

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