General CV questions

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.

Moderators: Kent, os

Post Reply
Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:58 pm

Ok, i played the new firmware for a few hours now, only in Shepard and Risset modes, and it's wonderful, no more errors in the ascending voltages modes with Marbles. It's great. The only weird thing is the one i mentioned earlier.

Thanks again!

Naive Teen Idol
Common Wiggler
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Sun May 19, 2019 9:18 am

Not strictly a GCV question, but does anyone know of a good MIDI file editor that will export Type-1 files? I’d like to be able to program or edit GM MIDI files and load them onto the SD card and queue them up via CV. Reason will export the file type but not with program information. Ableton only does Type 0. And Reaper is a bit of a setup nightmare

Thoughts?

Naive Teen Idol
Common Wiggler
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Thu May 23, 2019 6:32 am

FWIW, Reaper will do this and can use internal GM plugins on the Mac. It can be a little confusing to set up at first and isn’t the most intuitive editing program, but it’s the only program I know of that will export multitrack Type 1 MIDI files. Pretty fun stuff to manipulate on the GCV once I got it working.

Naive Teen Idol
Common Wiggler
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Thu May 23, 2019 11:07 am

Os, loving this module ... what a treat to play around with these sounds and parts in a modular context.

One thing I've noticed: if I don't put the MicroSD card in at the correct angle, it falls through the module into the case. Not sure if there's anything I could do regardless, but is it possible something slipped off? I bought mine used and it's worked perfectly other than this. I also did have some trouble getting the card in as I didn't realize it needed to be inserted in the opposite direction from the Disting MicroSD card -- so I suppose I could have done something wrong when I was wrestling with that.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Thu May 23, 2019 11:13 am

No, that's how it is. As long you angle it to the left a little as you go in its fine.

Naive Teen Idol
Common Wiggler
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Fri May 24, 2019 10:46 am

Got it ... and yes, I did figure the angling thing out. Still dropped it once, tho -- just have to make sure I don't take the card out when I'm out of the studio!

As for a feature idea: could you implement pitch bend on all the tracks in the playback modes? That would allow you to change the key of the file. Imagine a parameter that just includes Pitch +/-1, 2, 3, etc. would be enough.

Edit: As I think about it, I wonder if pre-existing pitchbend data in the file would screw that up.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Fri May 24, 2019 11:55 am

It would. But there's a global tune/transpose setting in General MIDI which might work.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Wed May 29, 2019 9:28 pm

I can save presets to the SD card only with firmware 1.4. With the 1.4.1 version my module reboots when i try to "save all to SD card".

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Thu May 30, 2019 2:57 am

Confirmed. I'll fix that.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Thu May 30, 2019 4:01 am

1.4.2 released with a fix.

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:19 am

Module looks ideal for what I need as long as it does this:
My carefully crafted drum Midi files saved on the on SD card will play on Drum midi channel 10 and ALSO send out the data on the breakout midi expander so I can then use a separate midi to cv convertor module to play those same triggers on none-midi eurorack drum modules.

Ideally I'd be able to mute some of the drums coming from the General CV audio outs (so I can use some drum sounds from the module and some via triggers, after conversion from the same midi file). Is that doable too?

And just extending the ideas - I assume I can actually have a midi file which has instruments on other midi channels PLUS the drums on Ch 10 and do effectively the same thing but also be having a melody played by some instrument on the General CV - and even take that out via the midi expander too?

Thanks, The manual is great and detailed but the midi out part isn't 100% clear to me based on what I've read.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:35 am

When playing a MIDI file from the SD card, all the MIDI in the file is sent both to the General MIDI sound engine and to the external MIDI port, if enabled.

If you want to trigger external sounds without triggering a General MIDI sound, use a note that isn't in the GM drum set (i.e. a note less than 35 in the standard drum set).

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:32 am

os wrote:When playing a MIDI file from the SD card, all the MIDI in the file is sent both to the General MIDI sound engine and to the external MIDI port, if enabled.

If you want to trigger external sounds without triggering a General MIDI sound, use a note that isn't in the GM drum set (i.e. a note less than 35 in the standard drum set).
Brilliant - and thank you for the quick reply.
Ordering one now!

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:51 am

Another question if I may:

Does the general CV have the GM 2 soundset?

It appears to have most of the extra Drum sets but the manual does not specify if the other instrument sets are included.

In Clocked Playback mode - How do I specify which drum set of the 5 to have the midi file play?

(I can see in Drums mode there is a kit selection in the parameters, but not so in the Clocked Playback mode)

Lastly, According to Wiki the GM2 seems to have 9 Drum sets. General CV has 5 of them. Is the 'Alternate Kit' in the General the same as 'Electronic Kit' or the 808 kit' in GM2?

Thanks again.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:24 am

You may like to read the details of the GM chip here:

https://www.dream.fr/pdf/Serie2000/SAM_ ... AM2695.pdf

Kit selection is a program change - you can put that in your MIDI file.

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:44 am

os wrote:You may like to read the details of the GM chip here:

https://www.dream.fr/pdf/Serie2000/SAM_ ... AM2695.pdf

Kit selection is a program change - you can put that in your MIDI file.
Thanks, that is an interesting (and very technical) read!

If I’m right it seems the MT-32 alternate sounds are available on the chip by sending CTRL 0=127 before the Program Change command - is that right?

Looks like there is a lot that can be done with NRPM commands too ( which I know absolutely nothing about!) as well as CC messages.
Reckon I’ve got some learning to do re midi file editing.....

I see you didn’t use the mike input and it’s echo then ?
Maybe a little too Karaoke that one :hihi:

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:19 am

If I’m right it seems the MT-32 alternate sounds are available on the chip by sending CTRL 0=127 before the Program Change command - is that right?
That's what it says. I've not tried it.
I see you didn’t use the mike input and it’s echo then ?
Not yet!

Naive Teen Idol
Common Wiggler
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:35 am

Oh man, now this has me intrigued about how to access these sounds.

Re. the drum kits: am I right to assume that these kits are merely collections of the sounds in the sound set? IE, not different sounds? These are the kits Wikipedia says exists in General MIDI -- and other than the handclap there isn't really an 808-style snare:
1 Standard Kit The only kit specified by General MIDI Level 1
9 Room Kit Drums recorded with room ambience
17 Power Kit More powerful kick and snare sounds
25 Electronic Kit Sounds of various electronic drums
26 TR-808 Kit Analog drum kit similar to Roland TR-808
33 Jazz Kit Softer kick and snare sounds than the Standard Kit
41 Brush Kit Many brush sounds added
49 Orchestra Kit A collection of concert drums and timpani
57 Sound FX Kit A collection of sound effects
Os, re. the MT-32 alternate soundset, would it be possible to make that accessible via the settings or somewhere else? I'm finding it a bit of a pain to figure out how to send over MIDI.

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm

Naive Teen Idol wrote:
Os, re. the MT-32 alternate soundset, would it be possible to make that accessible via the settings or somewhere else? I'm finding it a bit of a pain to figure out how to send over MIDI.
I believe the way to do this is by sending the Bank Change message set to 127.

I haven't received mine yet but I'll be testing it and let you know once I get it.

I agree it would be useful to have this as a parameter change item in the module menu too though.

Also, seeing as the chip has it built in, I reckon opening up the audio input (and its echo) would be a cool addition to the module at some point in future :party:

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:25 am

Cobramatic wrote:
Naive Teen Idol wrote:
Os, re. the MT-32 alternate soundset, would it be possible to make that accessible via the settings or somewhere else? I'm finding it a bit of a pain to figure out how to send over MIDI.
I believe the way to do this is by sending the Bank Change message set to 127.
I've had my General CV for a couple of weeks now.
I have to say that, apart from the minuscule screen, it is a genius of a module.

Anyway, I can now confirm that you CAN access that un-documented 2nd sound bank.
As i mentioned previously you DO need to send a Bank Change message set to 127.

Also accessing the different Drum kits is simple too - just use a Program change message for them.

I'm still just scratching the surface - you can do a hell of a lot with sound sculpting etc once you get into it.

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:06 pm

In CVM mode i have cv input 3 mapped to the Reverb. I use the GCV with the MIDI breakout and a midi keyboard. If i send an lfo (from Dixie 2+) or exponential looping envelopes (from MI Stages) to this input the sound is gone and i have to reset the preset.

edit: i also mapped the decay to another input and after a bit of envelopes mangling i had to reset ..

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 13880
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by os » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:21 am

Are you on the latest firmware (1.4.3)?

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:26 am

os wrote:Are you on the latest firmware (1.4.3)?
nope, it's on 1.4.2 but i'll upgrade today

Anghel
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Europe

Post by Anghel » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:23 am

os wrote:Are you on the latest firmware (1.4.3)?
Problem solved, thanks! :)

Naive Teen Idol
Common Wiggler
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Location: Boston

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:20 pm

Cobramatic wrote:
Cobramatic wrote:
Naive Teen Idol wrote:
Os, re. the MT-32 alternate soundset, would it be possible to make that accessible via the settings or somewhere else? I'm finding it a bit of a pain to figure out how to send over MIDI.
I believe the way to do this is by sending the Bank Change message set to 127.
I've had my General CV for a couple of weeks now.
I have to say that, apart from the minuscule screen, it is a genius of a module.

Anyway, I can now confirm that you CAN access that un-documented 2nd sound bank.
As i mentioned previously you DO need to send a Bank Change message set to 127.

Also accessing the different Drum kits is simple too - just use a Program change message for them.

I'm still just scratching the surface - you can do a hell of a lot with sound sculpting etc once you get into it.
Circling back around on this: are you using a breakout to access the programs/kits? Or are you doing it via the program files?

Wondering if accessing the alternate soundsets might be something Os could make accessible in the settings somehow.

Post Reply

Return to “Expert Sleepers”