FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

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BobbyFogtop
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FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by BobbyFogtop » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:12 pm

I'm struggling with getting my ROLI Seaboard to control my modular setup. I have an FH-2 an FHX-1 and an FHX-8GT. I have a USB hub connected to the A input of the FH-2. The ROLI and a Novation Launch Control are connected to the hub. The ROLI is powered by a wall wart. The "A" on the FH-2 display shows two devices connected. (Usually... but that's a question for another time. Let's assume for now that it's good.)

I would like to use the ROLI in MPE mode and have the FH-2 process the pitch(CV), gate, aftertouch and Y for four voices, adding envelope information. I am confused about how to configure things to accomplish this.

In the web interface I
select the first output
change the type to MPE
set the base output to 1
check boxes for CV, Gate*, Envelope and aftertouch
choose CC 64 for Y
set voices to 4 and
Last channel to 5

*I have tried this both checking gate and not checking gate, since I want to use envelopes and I'm not sure which is correct.

I'd like to use the knobs on the Launch Control to modify the envelopes on a per voice basis. When I turn a knob on the Launch Control the midi channel, CC number and value appear in the FH-2 display. I'm not sure how I should use this information to fill in the envelope section of the web app.

In the MIDI/CV converters section of the FH-2 manual, on page 19, it says that the envelope function is assigned an output last. (Rather than the order that the column appears in on the web app screen.) So, assuming four outputs for each voice (in the case where I don't check Gate, for example... because I would like to make use of my FHX-8GT someday) does this mean I should fill in the _4th_ line of the Portamento/Transpose/Envelope section with the MIDI channel number and CC number for each knob as they show up in the FH-2 display as appropriate for Attack, Decay, etc.
I've tried putting them in several different lines and nothing seems to work.

And what triggers the FH-2 to start sending the envelope out of an output anyway?

Obviously, my understanding is incomplete and/or just wrong. Maybe someone who has been down this path can help me out. At this point I'm just getting frustrated and I'd like to start making some noise.

Thanks for reading!

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os
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Post by os » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:22 am

And what triggers the FH-2 to start sending the envelope out of an output anyway?
The envelope triggers whenever the gate/trigger does.
So, assuming four outputs for each voice (in the case where I don't check Gate, for example... because I would like to make use of my FHX-8GT someday) does this mean I should fill in the _4th_ line of the Portamento/Transpose/Envelope section with the MIDI channel number and CC number for each knob as they show up in the FH-2 display as appropriate for Attack, Decay, etc.
No. The lines of the Portamento/Transpose/Envelope section correspond to the lines of the MIDI/CV Converters section. (Both are numbered 1-16 for MIDI/CV converters 1-16.)

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os
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Post by os » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:35 am

PS the envelopes should start working as soon as you've enabled them in the MIDI/CV converter. You don't need to map the CCs to change the envelope times for them to work - you should get envelopes with default times as soon as it's enabled.

BobbyFogtop
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Post by BobbyFogtop » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:59 pm

os wrote:
And what triggers the FH-2 to start sending the envelope out of an output anyway?
The envelope triggers whenever the gate/trigger does.
So, assuming four outputs for each voice (in the case where I don't check Gate, for example... because I would like to make use of my FHX-8GT someday) does this mean I should fill in the _4th_ line of the Portamento/Transpose/Envelope section with the MIDI channel number and CC number for each knob as they show up in the FH-2 display as appropriate for Attack, Decay, etc.
No. The lines of the Portamento/Transpose/Envelope section correspond to the lines of the MIDI/CV Converters section. (Both are numbered 1-16 for MIDI/CV converters 1-16.)
Thanks for responding.

So, if I understand you correctly it is not possible to use a different envelope for each separate "voice" when a converter is in MPE mode? Does that mean that the one envelope affects all the MPE pitch/CV outputs? Or is it the one envelope affecting just the first CV output?

As long as I know what I am dealing with... I guess I can start exploring other combinations of MONO, POLY, etc.

Thanks

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os
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Post by os » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:02 pm

It's one envelope per voice, exactly the same as the poly mode.

BobbyFogtop
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Post by BobbyFogtop » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:35 pm

os wrote:It's one envelope per voice, exactly the same as the poly mode.
Thanks. I guess that's perfectly reasonable.

Thinking further about what I am trying to do, when I get some time, I may experiment with using the note range converter parameters. Seems like I might be able to split the keyboard into regions with different envelope responses? Still working through the relationship between converters and physical module outputs... Either I need more expanders... or I should just stop trying to coerce my modular into a multi-timbral polyphonic synth.

Thanks again.

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Post by Ashitaaka » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Hi BobbyFogtop,

did you finally get your answers?
My FH-2 just arrived yesterday and I'm also kind of lost regarding MPE.

I'd like to control my envelope with cc messages from my Digitakt and don't really get how to do it..

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Post by BobbyFogtop » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:26 am

Ashitaaka wrote:Hi BobbyFogtop,

did you finally get your answers?
My FH-2 just arrived yesterday and I'm also kind of lost regarding MPE.

I'd like to control my envelope with cc messages from my Digitakt and don't really get how to do it..
I was experimenting with different configurations for a while but it seemed like I was getting inconsistent results. At the time it seemed like I may have been having problems with my laptop and my keyboard as well as the FH-2. Frustrating. But mostly, I didn't have the time to focus on the issue, so it's possible the only problem was a lack of understanding on my part.

It would be great if there were somewhere one could go to find examples of different configuration setups. Someone should make a tutorial! Unfortunately, I am not that person.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. Good luck!

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Post by os » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:16 am

Ashitaaka wrote:I'd like to control my envelope with cc messages from my Digitakt and don't really get how to do it..
Use the 'Show Portamento/Transpose/Envelopes' section of the config tool. The rows correspond to the rows in the MIDI/CV section, so for example if you're using MIDI/CV converter 1, use row 1 in the envelopes section. Then choose the MIDI channel and CC of each envelope parameter you want to control.

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Post by eclectics » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:18 pm

With respect to MPE and Envelopes, I'm trying to setup a Sensel Morph, and wanted to try an envelope, with sustain controlled by Y (cc74).

The envelope setting wants a channel and CC; if this is envelope per voice, with mpe each voice is on a separate channel, so the envelope only works for 1 voice. Is this correct? (it seems to be working this way; I can get sustain from Y for first voice, but not for second).

I can setup the morph to send mpe as usual so it deals with note channels, then on the FH-2 treat it as multiple monophonic converters, each with it's own envelope, and that seems to be working. Is this the best way to do it? I think I just lose control over voice allocation-- any extra key presses are ignored, which is fine.

Above you mentioned the envelopes have defaults for the uncontrolled parameters -- is there a list of them anywhere?

Thanks,

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Post by os » Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:26 am

Is this correct?
Yes.
Is this the best way to do it?
I can't immediately think of a better one.
Above you mentioned the envelopes have defaults for the uncontrolled parameters -- is there a list of them anywhere?
You can view them in the module if you go into the edit preset menu.

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Post by woelfl » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:27 am

Maybe I'm not 100% on-topic here, it's not about MPE, but it's regarding the Config Tool and Envelopes... and this thread seemed like most related to my issue among what I found around here... I don't know if I'm doing something horribly wrong, or missed something important in the manual, but...

Is it actually possible to edit the envelopes via the Conf Tool, or only via Presets->Envelopes menu? I mean the envelope times, range, depth etc.
If I'm correctly understanding what I've read around here and in the manual, the Conf Tool seems to be just assigning MIDI CCs for modifying specific parameters, but does not actually edit the envelopes..? I.e. I edited and assigned the first 4 envelopes on the FH-2 itself, and then pulled the config back into the Conf Tool, and literally nothing changes in the section you get with "Show Portamento/Transpose/Envelopes"
I have it configured at the moment to output 1V/oct on 1/3/5/7 and the envelopes on 2/4/6/8, i.e. for MIDI channels 1-4, and everything works great, just nothing reflected about envelopes in the Conf Tool...

Cheers & thanks a lot!

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os
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Post by os » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:34 am

The envelope times are part of the Preset, and so not edited via the config tool. You edit them via the menu, as you suggest, or via MIDI CCs.

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by MarcoPolo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:03 pm

Hello, I am also having a problem getting the envelopes to work the way I want them in MPE.
I have a Sensel Morph and am using some of the XYZ pads to change the ADSR values. I can see in the display on the FH-2 that I'm affecting the shape of the envelopes but they seem to operate in an inverted fashion in terms of the sound output. I am using the envelope to control a VCA and it dips the sound level according to the shape, then increases the volume at the end. I have read the manual and it says that Envelope Depths are positive or negative. I have tried setting these in the Config tool to 64, 1, and 127 and none of these settings reverse the direction of the envelope to operate to open and close the VCA at the end, it always leaves the sound on. What am I doing wrong? Does the Depth setting have anything to do with the envelope as a positive or a negative envelope?

Thanks!

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by os » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:08 pm

What have you selected for the voltage range for the output? What do you see the output jack LED doing?

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by MarcoPolo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:23 pm

I have tried 0-10V and +-5V I have an 8GT expander and am routing the gate to the expander and have Velocity, Envelope and Aftertouch turned on. I am assuming that the 1st jack is CV, 2nd is Velocity and 3rd is Envelope. The 4th should be the Y value, but I also see a 5th jack light up on the FH-2, I don't know what that is. I can see the Gate on the 8GT flash when I hit a note. When I trigger a note I hear the volume drop down but don't see much change in the light but then the volume comes back up while I hold the note according to the length of the envelope segments. Very strange...

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by os » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:33 am

Could you attach your config, ideally as a sysex dump?

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by MarcoPolo » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:23 am

Thanks! Here's the sysex:
Attachments
MyEnvProblemConfig.zip
(1.04 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by os » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:37 am

I see you've mapped envelope depth to CC 64. This is not the same as setting its value to 64. Perhaps that's the confusion?

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by MarcoPolo » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:30 pm

Maybe. I'd prefer to set it somehow, but the config tool doesn't allow, this, right? Still not sure why the 5th jack light is changing if I'm only setting 4 values...

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by os » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:07 pm

You have CV, velocity, envelope, aftertouch & Y - that's 5.

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Re: FH-2, MPE and Envelopes

Post by MarcoPolo » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:04 pm

Oh sorry, I thought y was aftertouch, duh. Thanks!

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