ES-9 standalone summing?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:12 am

Oh and double clicking the sliders now does stuff.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by ronnieb » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:17 pm

os wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:11 am
Here's a new beta.

This is quite a big deal. I've ripped out all the library code I was using for the mixer, and replaced it with my own from-scratch code - which means I'm much more in control and can do unconventional stuff.

Like for instance - adding controls for DC offsets. There's a new set of faders at the bottom of the config tool that let you adjust the DC offset of your 3.5mm outputs, which is useful so that, for example, a zero coming out of VCV Rack actually gives you zero Volts in hardware.

So - big changes. Please test with caution!
I've been following this thread but haven't tried the beta because it feels like I'm permanently attached to my laptop atm but this is v v exciting new!
Killer work os :guinness:

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:22 pm

virtualpt wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:29 am

Mixer section, where you have Main Out L & then bus 1 multiple times, change the bus 1 next to Main Out L to Main Out R, same for Mixer 2 section.

My previous post Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:03 am, has good example screenshots which should help if you get stuck.
thaaaaat makes sense. think i'm just not grasping the layout concept. will try that when i get home, defo look at your screenshots.

thanks!
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:35 pm

virtualpt wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:29 am

Mixer section.....
so. YES. got the first 8 playing in stereo. and responding to sliders. still haven't tacked MIDI control because, as per your OTHER super helpful suggestion, have a MIDIXO on the way (and a FaderFox EC4, the SL MixFACE doesn't have even micro MIDI outs, and wanted an excuse to grab an EC4 since Loopop did the vidja on one), waiting for those to hit.

but the second Mixer is only playing through my left speaker. i followed your layout as much as i understood, what am i doing wrong?

also, kinda off topic, but i remember reading/watching SOMEwhere that one could use a standard TRS cable between TRS MIDI devices as long as they were both A or both B. is that correct? since the MIDIXO can be jumper'd between A and B, and i'm waiting to hear back from wonderfully nice and helpful Fader Foxy Mans if the EC4 is A or B, would i need to go TRS MIDI out with adapter to TRS MIDI IN with adapter or skip that and just use a TRS cable?
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by virtualpt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:49 pm

behndy wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:35 pm
virtualpt wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:29 am

Mixer section.....
so. YES. got the first 8 playing in stereo. and responding to sliders. still haven't tacked MIDI control because, as per your OTHER super helpful suggestion, have a MIDIXO on the way (and a FaderFox EC4, the SL MixFACE doesn't have even micro MIDI outs, and wanted an excuse to grab an EC4 since Loopop did the vidja on one), waiting for those to hit.

but the second Mixer is only playing through my left speaker. i followed your layout as much as i understood, what am i doing wrong?

also, kinda off topic, but i remember reading/watching SOMEwhere that one could use a standard TRS cable between TRS MIDI devices as long as they were both A or both B. is that correct? since the MIDIXO can be jumper'd between A and B, and i'm waiting to hear back from wonderfully nice and helpful Fader Foxy Mans if the EC4 is A or B, would i need to go TRS MIDI out with adapter to TRS MIDI IN with adapter or skip that and just use a TRS cable?
You can just use a TRS cable between the Faderfox & the MIDIXO. Can you post a screenshot of the mixers section please.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:26 pm

TRS only cable - aweeeeeeeesome.

Mix section - well THAT is unreadable. hold on a second. that's weird. it looks pretty crap on my computer. is that readable?
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by virtualpt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:52 pm

behndy wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:26 pm
TRS only cable - aweeeeeeeesome.

Mix section - well THAT is unreadable. hold on a second. that's weird. it looks pretty crap on my computer. is that readable?
That all looks OK to me from my limited knowledge. Not sure what to suggest here - sorry! Have you tried moving the faders & pans from their positions & back again?

As an aside it's a good idea to check input DC blocking for every audio input that you are using.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:03 am

will check those, forgot about that.

yeah. they pans work on Mixer 1 with inputs 1-8, the pans do nothing with Mixer 2 and the 9-14 inputs.

it's not a HUGE deal, but it would be better if they went where they were s'posed to.

silly SYNTHS. why don't you do what you're TOLD??!?
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by virtualpt » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:21 am

behndy wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:03 am
will check those, forgot about that.

yeah. they pans work on Mixer 1 with inputs 1-8, the pans do nothing with Mixer 2 and the 9-14 inputs.

it's not a HUGE deal, but it would be better if they went where they were s'posed to.

silly SYNTHS. why don't you do what you're TOLD??!?
The UI can be a bit cryptic. We are probably missing something obvious. Perhaps Os can see what it is?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:26 am

I think it's just a bug. I'll fix it.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:38 am

Actually no, it should be working in the latest version I posted.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=226245&start=75#p3352600

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:06 am

wonnnnderful! thanks! will install that firmware later.

i'm on Windows, every time i should uninstall the drivers before changing the firmware no?

thanks!
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by MedicineMan » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:21 pm

I'm extremely impressed by the speed of huuuge new features for the standalone capabilities of the ES-9.
They are making it immensely more useful for me, and it already was super useful as hosted. Changed the way I approach my rack now. :)
Thank you, Os, for being this active with development! Way to keep customers happy! <3

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by supertwang » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:42 pm

Os, as you consider updates to the ES-9 firmware, a wishlist item:

I'd love to be able to devote/assign one of my ES-9 output channels to the SilentWay Sync plugin in my DAW, and have the MIDI Clock signals forwarded to the attached ES Midi Expander.

I am currently getting the Sync out of one of the ES9 outputs (awesome!) but have to use another piece of hardware to convert Sync->MIDI (In my case the Deluge). I'd love to be able to do this with the ES Midi Expander instead.

Thanks for considering... I'm loving your service to this machine and community!

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:10 pm

finally had time to load the newest firmware you linked to, and YES. all inputs work stereo now. beauuuuuuutiful.

not sure if it's something that got lost when i unistalled then reinstalled the audio drivers (i'm on Windows 10), but now my PC won't play audio. through Chrome or through a DAW (tried Live and Cubase).

jebus ignore this i am 92% sure i didn't REINSTALL the driver. it has been a long couple days at work. i'm in idiot mode. will check that tomorrow.

also, unsure how to make the headphone outs louder? i can hear the inputs pass through suuuuuuuuuuuuper quietly to the headphone jack, but adjusting the headphone volume knob does nothing.

thanks!
Last edited by behndy on Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by escargot » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:37 am

os wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:12 am
Oh and double clicking the sliders now does stuff.
I love you :love:

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by virtualpt » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:46 am

behndy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:10 pm
finally had time to load the newest firmware you linked to, and YES. all inputs work stereo now. beauuuuuuutiful.

not sure if it's something that got lost when i unistalled then reinstalled the audio drivers (i'm on Windows 10), but now my PC won't play audio. through Chrome or through a DAW (tried Live and Cubase).

jebus ignore this i am 92% sure i didn't REINSTALL the driver. it has been a long couple days at work. i'm in idiot mode. will check that tomorrow.

also, unsure how to make the headphone outs louder? i can hear the inputs pass through suuuuuuuuuuuuper quietly to the headphone jack, but adjusting the headphone volume knob does nothing.

thanks!
Have you got a mix going to phones and are faders up?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:39 am

yep tried that! again, i'm prettttty sure i didna reinstall the driver, so let me sit down after a good night's sleeo and check stuff properly in a few hours.
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:20 am

supertwang wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:42 pm
I am currently getting the Sync out of one of the ES9 outputs (awesome!) but have to use another piece of hardware to convert Sync->MIDI (In my case the Deluge). I'd love to be able to do this with the ES Midi Expander instead.
What's stopping you simply sending MIDI clock from your DAW to the ES-9 right now?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:23 am

OK, new beta.

<fanfare of trumpets>

EQ!
Screenshot 2020-09-28 at 14.22.41.png
Please note though that this changes the configuration format in flash - old configs will no longer be readable.

Edit - download pulled while I investigate an issue.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by escargot » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:52 pm

holly molly! now i gonna run out of midi controls! (if those are midi controllable?)...
and compressor/limiter for Xmas?
thanks OS

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by supertwang » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:12 am

[quote=os post_id=3356239 time=1601277658 user_id=1111]
[quote=supertwang post_id=3355465 time=1601152944 user_id=48798]
I am currently getting the Sync out of one of the ES9 outputs (awesome!) but have to use another piece of hardware to convert Sync->MIDI (In my case the Deluge). I'd love to be able to do this with the ES Midi Expander instead.
[/quote]

What's stopping you simply sending MIDI clock from your DAW to the ES-9 right now?
[/quote]

Os, Sorry I wasn't clearer. Nothing is stopping that, except that it is a flawed approach to keeping things solidly synced. I -think- you created Silent Way Sync to solve this issue... sending a master MIDI clock out of a DAW to hardware (ie by usb, or even into the ES Midi expander) doesn't produce a solid sync to the DAW timeline. (due to Midi jitter induced by the OS, etc)

So, my wishlist firmware feature request is this: As a SilentWay/Sync user, I'd like an option in the ES-9 firmware/configurator to identify an ES-9 output as the one that is receiving the SilentWay/Sync clock signal, to have the firmware turn that signal BACK into a MIDI Clock and then output those MIDI Clock messages on the ES Midi Expander's MIDI OUT connector. The combo would provide the same service as your USAMO standalone product.

Since the ES-9 is already hearing that clock signal on one of its outputs, and can already talk to the ES-Midi Expander, it seems that it might be doable in firmware, and offer huge value to anyone trying to keep their Eurorack, their DAW and other MIDI-driven hardware in sync. It'd probably also serve to introduce more people to the many benefits of the Silent Way suite. It seems like a perfect fit!

I am currently doing this Analog Clock -> Midi Clock reverse conversion with the Deluge, which then distributes it out to the rest of my MIDI hardware. The setup is -AWESOME-. (This is my huge endorsement to the combo of SilentWay (esp Sync) and your ES DC-coupled IO!) It makes tracking to DAW soooo much easier, because your beats (or other), line up perfectly to the timeline -- no fiddly manual re-alignment. It seems like a huge added value to offer this sync format bridging purely on the ES hardware combo many people already have in their racks. (Also, personally-speaking, my Deluge is often out traveling, and can't always be installed in the studio as the go-between.)

Have I explained this wish/feature request more clearly here? Would it make sense to add this SilentWay/Sync support (and reverse translation back to MIDI Clock on the ES Midi expander) to the ES9 firmware and configurator?

Thank you so much for all of your work, your engagement and your fantastic products. It is all very inspiring!

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:02 am

Got it. Interesting idea.

You could use the ES-9's ES-5 connection for sample-accurate MIDI, with an adaptor cable or the ESX-8MD.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by supertwang » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:23 pm

[quote=os post_id=3356872 time=1601362954 user_id=1111]
Got it. Interesting idea.

You could use the ES-9's ES-5 connection for sample-accurate MIDI, with an adaptor cable or the ESX-8MD.
[/quote]

os. Oh! The ESX-8MD looks like it outputs exactly what I was proposing for the "Normal/small" ES Midi Expander, in a much more robust form. Just to confirm, I would need an ES5 to make use of the ESX-8MD?
Alternately you mention an "Adapter cable." Is the sync'ed midi signal already somewhere on the pinout of the ES-9's connector for the ES-5? Could I hotwire my own solution (with custom adapter made by me) using just the ES9 and the ES Midi Expander? I'm disappointed that I just bought a 1x12 midi splitter to split the MIDI out of the Deluge, when I should have just bought the ESX-8MD, which would have allowed me to remove the Deluge from the chain. Alas. Thanks in advance for your advice!

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:14 pm

You need the ES-5 whatever. Then you can either add the ESX-8MD (recommended) or use the DJ-1000 adaptor cable (https://expert-sleepers.co.uk/accessories.html) (cheaper but doesn't always work).

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