ES-9 standalone summing?

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supertwang
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by supertwang » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:23 pm

os. Thanks for the info.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:53 pm

well crap.

i REALLLLLLLY hope my ES9 isn't borked? the inputs still light up magenta when they're receiving signal, but the red lights next to the USB port are unlit. my computer doesn't see it, so DreamDFU and the ES9 Config Tool don't see it. it still seems to power on normally, but i can't access it at all.

i had loaded the newest FW in this thread -
os wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:23 am
OK, new beta.

<fanfare of trumpets>

EQ!

Screenshot 2020-09-28 at 14.22.41.png

Please note though that this changes the configuration format in flash - old configs will no longer be readable.
but then when i was in the Config Tool it kept launching a dialog saying "the tool doesn't match the firmware" (approximately) so i uninstalled the audio drivers and launched the DreamDFU to reload that FW and it stuck on Searching, i saw the 2 red lights on the ES9 go dark, now i can't see it at all with my Windows 10 machine. i've tried three different USB cables, and made sure they all work with my phone connecting to my computer.

is there some way to do a physical hard reset?

help?
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os
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:35 am

Do the red LEDs never come on? At all? If not that's a deeply unhappy ES-9.

Could I clarify what you did?
- you installed the beta with EQ
- you attempted to go back to an earlier firmware
- you succeeded? or the firmware updater didn't find the ES-9 at this point?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:33 am

yep. no red LED lights at ALL. just the "getting signal" from the inputs.

yessir. i installed the newest beta with EQ, kept getting the error dialog in the Config Tool, uninstalled the driver to retry the DreamDFU with the newest beta, when i launched it got stuck with Searching and both red lights went out.

iiiiii am kinda screwed if it died, just reworked my whole setup where that's my only audio interface.
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:46 am

My guess would be flash corruption, though I can't think how that happened if the DFU tool wasn't actually flashing it at the time.

In which case it needs the firmware put back on with a programming tool, which is super simple except you don't have the tool, nor can you easily buy one, which is a shame as they cost less than it's going to cost to send an ES-9 anywhere.

Email me and we'll talk through the options.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:51 am

murf. emailed. thanks.
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by Lokua » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:01 pm

Hello os and everybody. I see that the firmware is actively being improved and I have a feature idea that may fit. Full disclaimer I am not an ES-9 owner:

Feature
Per-input constant millisecond delay option AKA track delay offset (persisted in Standalone Mode)

Use Case
I a have latency problem between the various digital modules and analog modules in my rack. In Hosted Mode it's obviously not a problem as I can solve that with track offsets in the DAW. In Standalone Mode however, kind of at a loss. I'd love to be able to take advantage of these killer features like EQ, grouping, and MIDI control while simultaneously solving my latency problem in a DAWless context. So yeah, pretty specific, but also a general problem at the same time.

Happy to provide more context if anyone is curious. Struggling to find an elegant solution otherwise.
Cheers

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:39 am

Interesting. I've never heard anyone complain about latency in a non-computer environment before. But I guess digital modules are all little computers with their own latencies.

The ES-9 is very constrained on RAM. It could do track delays but they could only be very small - a few ms maybe. How much latency are you aiming to deal with?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by escargot » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:25 am

ive also lost connection with ES9 after playing with last beta for a few days. no more light, everything is gone.... ouch. Prior to that i had lost my aggregate device RME UFX+ ES9 too.
there are light on the inputs but i can't awake those channels on the midi controller as the ES9 generally goes to 0 on every channels everytime i shut down/ reboot system.
can't send other OS as ES DFU app can't see ES9 anymore... scary os please help!

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:31 am

Please email me.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:46 pm

nice! WORKING. thanks OS!

got the audio over USB from the computer working, got the headphones working (both durps on my part) and all the ins are nice and stereo and adjustable.

it feels like there's a newer version of the Config Tool that i'm not using though? i don't see anything for EQ or Compression/Limiting.

and i can only get the first 8 inputs to go through the headphones.

but i'm off today on a 4 day trip with the grrL, so won't be able to do any more setup till i get back Wednesday night.
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by Lokua » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:46 pm

os wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:39 am
Interesting. I've never heard anyone complain about latency in a non-computer environment before. But I guess digital modules are all little computers with their own latencies.

The ES-9 is very constrained on RAM. It could do track delays but they could only be very small - a few ms maybe. How much latency are you aiming to deal with?
In my case I'm dealing with a latency of 9ms on an ER-301, so in my own specific setup a few ms would only get me so far. That's obviously an issue with the ER-301 itself (it is a known issue and generally accepted as a problem), whose firmware is still not considered v1 (not holding my breath).

As far as this being a general problem, some quick googling led me to an interesting thread:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=192002

There is this list, which contains a "triggered latency" column:
viewtopic.php?p=3120088

I think there are lot of factors in play that would obscure discovery of the issue like style of music, ones ability to discern the difference, and the relative rarity of samplers with higher delay counts that prevents "latency between digital & non-digital modules in a modular environment" from being a more talked about issue.

The bright side of my pursuits in dealing with this issue and the ER-301 is that until I can solve this issue consistently, at least I know that for my own music, all sampling modules that introduce latency >= 2ms are completely off the table. Lesson learned.

With the constraints of the ES-9 coupled with lack of outcry about latency I couldn't honestly tell you that working a solution into the ES-9 would be worth it overall, especially if that would hinder any other advancements that might depend on RAM and fit more user's needs. But hey! I don't want to talk you out of it! And my apologies to anyone who comes across this thread only to realize they never realized there was a latency problem within their own system! It's one of those tricky things that once you hear, you can never unhear it!

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 am

Lokua wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:46 pm
In my case I'm dealing with a latency of 9ms on an ER-301, so in my own specific setup a few ms would only get me so far.
Wow that's quite a lot.

How many channels of that would you want to put through the ES-9 though? If say the ES-9 could only manage a total of 24ms (3ms per channel) but you could reallocate that to 2x9 + 6x1 would that do?

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:28 am

os wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:23 am
OK, new beta.

<fanfare of trumpets>

EQ!

Screenshot 2020-09-28 at 14.22.41.png

Please note though that this changes the configuration format in flash - old configs will no longer be readable.

Edit - download pulled while I investigate an issue.
If anyone downloaded this please for the love of all that's holy don't install it, or if you did, revert immediately.

I did bad.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by escargot » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:15 am


If anyone downloaded this please for the love of all that's holy don't install it, or if you did, revert immediately.

I did bad.
you can't do bad when you do that much good. thank you for your stellar support.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by Lokua » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:52 pm

os wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 am
Lokua wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:46 pm
In my case I'm dealing with a latency of 9ms on an ER-301, so in my own specific setup a few ms would only get me so far.
Wow that's quite a lot.

How many channels of that would you want to put through the ES-9 though? If say the ES-9 could only manage a total of 24ms (3ms per channel) but you could reallocate that to 2x9 + 6x1 would that do?
Ideally 10@9ms and the remaining 4@0ms. Basically anything that is not one of the ER-301s 4 outs would need to be delayed. I say ideally because of the potential to use the ES-9 as a mixer as well, but thinking about it I could mix down those 10 channels that need delays into a single stereo sub-mix. So like you said, 2@9ms would work.

Was reading the manual and I'm still not sure I fully understand it but am wondering if something like this could live at the mix level? So theoretically one could place a 9ms delay on mixes 1 & 2 to account for 8mono/4stereo channels? This would get me a lot closer and would more or less remove the need for the sub-mix.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:37 pm

It could go on the mix inputs or mix outputs.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by PopGoblin » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:34 am

Really looking forward to a release of this :) My faderfox EC-4 is waiting patiently besides my es-9 ;)

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by ronnieb » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:09 am

PopGoblin wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:34 am
Really looking forward to a release of this :) My faderfox EC-4 is waiting patiently besides my es-9 ;)
Same :yay:

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by os » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:23 am

Me too :) I'll get back to releasing betas once I've cleared up the shitstorm I created for myself with that bad release.

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:29 pm

thanks again for the amazing support when my borked! suuuuuuuuuuuper looking forward to the Enhanced No Crashy version of what you were working towards.
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by escargot » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:40 am

mine is fixed too! Thanks so much os

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:36 am

yah. he's a PRINCE.

hee. rubbing my hands together like a mischievous FLY in anticipation of getting the EC4 working as a mixer levels controller with the ES-9.

i forgot who, but someone else was using that combination? i'm a little slow with in-depth MIDI programming, mind posting the CC values for levels on the inputs?
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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by escargot » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:53 am

behndy wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:36 am
yah. he's a PRINCE.

hee. rubbing my hands together like a mischievous FLY in anticipation of getting the EC4 working as a mixer levels controller with the ES-9.

i forgot who, but someone else was using that combination? i'm a little slow with in-depth MIDI programming, mind posting the CC values for levels on the inputs?
would depend if you runnning mono or stereo channels, but for me in stereo, 1/2 is CC0, 3/4 is CC2, 5/6 is CC4, 7/8 is CC6, 9/10 is CC64, 11/12 is CC66, 13/14 is cc67 (double check that i might be mono there- not in the studio now)

chur

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Re: ES-9 standalone summing?

Post by behndy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:59 am

gotcha. that makes sense. and can fiddle into any differences from there. thanks homie!
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