ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

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ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:57 am

I have an older firewire Apollo Duo and I am trying to figure out how to connect it to a ES-40/ESX-8GT to be used with Ableton Live 10 via Silent Way.

I see that there are two UAD Apollo units listed as working with Silent Way on the Expert Sleepers website so I am hopeful this is possible. But I am new to Silent Way and while I was able to get a signal over to my ES-40 it didn't seem like there was any correlation to the settings in Live.

Anyone here have Silent Way working with an Apollo via Live that might be able to step me through the set up?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:15 am

The compatibility chart is irrelevant for this, since you're using a digital connection. All SPDIF devices should work fine with the ES-40/Silent Way.

You'll need to use the ES-4 Controller plug-in, or the Sync plug-in if you just want a clock.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:25 pm

os wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:15 am
The compatibility chart is irrelevant for this, since you're using a digital connection. All SPDIF devices should work fine with the ES-40/Silent Way.
Ah, I see. The compatibility chart is for people using the audio outputs on their interfaces.
os wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:15 am
You'll need to use the ES-4 Controller plug-in, or the Sync plug-in if you just want a clock.
Yes, I watched the "ESX-8GT mk2 demo" video and have now set up Live with the ES-4 controller. I was also able to figure out how to route a signal from my Apollo's SPDIF output to the ES-40. But the leds on the ESX-8GT are lit solid and don't appear to be responding to the MIDI being sent to it.

The ES-4 Controller track in Live has the MIDI input set to my sequencer, and the output set to the SPDIF output on my Apollo. I have also enabled "Silent Way ES-4 Controller" as an output in Ableton Live's MIDI Preferences window, but I don't see it as an input option. Should I be seeing it there?

For the ES-4 Gates I have "1 Chan" set to 1 and "1 Base" set to 64 and I am sending MIDI gate data from my sequencer on MIDI channel 1, notes C3 through F3. Any ideas on what I am missing or doing wrong?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:29 pm

In Live, as soon as I add the ES-4 Controller to the MIDI track the left audio meter jumps to -9dB. The right side however seems to be functioning normally. This is before I have even assigned an output. Anyone know why this is?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:48 am

It's the MIDI/CV conversion section which defaults to on. Set the Channel knob from '1' to 'Off'.
I have also enabled "Silent Way ES-4 Controller" as an output in Ableton Live's MIDI Preferences window
Don't do that. For normal usage it's not required and you send MIDI directly into the plug-in, as you would any other VSTi.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:16 pm

os wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:48 am
It's the MIDI/CV conversion section which defaults to on. Set the Channel knob from '1' to 'Off'.
Ok, I've done that. In the ES-4 Controller am I only using "Gates" then? I have "1 Channel" set to 1, and "1 Base" set to 48 (C3).
I have also enabled "Silent Way ES-4 Controller" as an output in Ableton Live's MIDI Preferences window
os wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:48 am
Don't do that. For normal usage it's not required and you send MIDI directly into the plug-in, as you would any other VSTi.
Ok, I disabled them now.

Still just seeing all 8 ESX-8GT output lit up solid. What is the ES-4 Controller meter in Live supposed to look like? Should I be seeing the meter moving in correlation to the input?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:21 pm

With nothing plugged into the ES-40's S/PDIF input jack 1 on the ESX-8GT is lit. Is this normal?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:21 am

The meter in Live should be at zero until you start sending out signals. Then it will react, but not in any normal audio-like way.
With nothing plugged into the ES-40's S/PDIF input jack 1 on the ESX-8GT is lit. Is this normal?
It's random until something is plugged in.

Have you checked your Apollo settings? You want the SPDIF channels to go out unmodified, no gain, nothing else mixed in with them.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:25 am

os wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:21 am
Have you checked your Apollo settings? You want the SPDIF channels to go out unmodified, no gain, nothing else mixed in with them.
If I turn on MIDI Out in the ES-4 Controller I can see the signal is being received in Live. Is this right? If so then the issue with the output of the S/PDIF must be within the Apollo. At the moment no matter what routing I try the S/PDIF output is always a constant output, meaning it has nothing to do with the signal I am sending to the S/PDIF output.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:58 am

Just to make sure I'm not confused, the ES-4 Controller is the plugin to use if I want to convert the MIDI On/Off events and Velocity data generated in Live into Gates and CV via the ES-40 + ESX-8GT + ESX-8CV, right?

Here's where I'm at...

For the purpose of testing the ES-4 Controller plugin I am now just using the "Gates" section, everything else is turned off. I have my ESX-8GT connected to my ES-40's third expansion header and the corresponding "3 Channel" in the ES-4 Controller set to MIDI channel 1 and the "3 Base" set to Note 24 (C1), as thats what my sequencer pattern is playing.

I am able to confirm that the S/PDIF output on my Apollo is outputting a signal by moving the fader in the software that controls the Apollo (Console) as I can see the ESX-8GT's LEDs respond to it. But I can't tell what the signal is as I can't listen to S/PDIF. Visually the meter in Live and the LEDs on the ESX-8GT just show a constant signal. Again, I see no correlation with the signal I am sending from Live (perhaps there wouldn't be with S/PDIF??). I can however raise or lower the level of the signal by changing the "Base Note" in the "Gates" section of the ES-4 Controller plugin. Also frustrating is the fact that the channel strip meters in Apollo aren't showing me any visual signs of a signal present on the channel I have the S/PDIF output assigned to. I don't know if this is right. Perhaps it is because I am bypassing the input and going straight out the S/PDIF output so there is not signal at the input to meter?

Not sure what else I can do with this setup :(

Os can you recommend an audio interface with S/PDIF that is known to work with Live 10 and the ES-40?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:30 am

morbank wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:58 am
Just to make sure I'm not confused, the ES-4 Controller is the plugin to use if I want to convert the MIDI On/Off events and Velocity data generated in Live into Gates and CV via the ES-40 + ESX-8GT + ESX-8CV, right?
Gates, yes. Not velocity. But we'll come to that once gates work.

The simplest way to debug is to turn the 'Output' knob for the header that the expander is on. That should light all the LEDs at max (255), none at zero, and a binary pattern in between.

All S/PDIF interfaces should work. I've never heard of one that doesn't.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:00 am

os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:30 am
Gates, yes. Not velocity. But we'll come to that once gates work.
Ok.
os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:30 am
The simplest way to debug is to turn the 'Output' knob for the header that the expander is on. That should light all the LEDs at max (255), none at zero, and a binary pattern in between.
Yes, I can confirm that this works as you describe.
os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:30 am
All S/PDIF interfaces should work. I've never heard of one that doesn't.
Fair enough. But if it is working, which it appears to be from the test above then how do I get the ES-40 to work with it?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 am

It sounds like it is working, and it's down to your plug-in setting at this point. Can you post a screenshot, or attach the song file?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:14 am

If the S/PDIF is working as it should and I am sending the ES-4 Controller plugin a sequence of MIDI note 24 (C1) on MIDI channel 1, and the Gate Output on the ES-4 Controller's "3 Channel" is set to MIDI channel 1, and it's base note is set to 24 should I see the 1st output on the ESX-8GT lighting in time with the MIDI sequence?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:17 am

Yes.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:38 am

os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 am
It sounds like it is working, and it's down to your plug-in setting at this point. Can you post a screenshot, or attach the song file?
Here's a screen shot:
Image

Let me see if I can figure out how to attach a song file here...
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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:41 am

See if this is works for you...
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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:45 am

You have the plug-in track routed to the left SPDIF channel only. It needs to be routed to the stereo pair.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:52 am

os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:45 am
You have the plug-in track routed to the left SPDIF channel only. It needs to be routed to the stereo pair.
Doh! Ok, I have now selected the stereo S/PDIF pair in Live and set up two channels on the Apollo to output S/PDIF L and R. I still don't see any changes in the behavior of the ESX-8GT LEDs though.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:02 am

Actually this doesn't make any sense, since with only the left channel routed the 'Output 3' knob shouldn't have worked either, but you say it did.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:17 am

os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:02 am
Actually this doesn't make any sense, since with only the left channel routed the 'Output 3' knob shouldn't have worked either, but you say it did.
"Output 3" as in the 3rd ES-4 Controller output? If so then yes, I have moved that knob and seen the LEDs on the ESX-8GT move in correlation.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:20 am

Screenshot 2020-01-28 at 10.19.40.png
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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:30 am

os wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:20 am
Screenshot 2020-01-28 at 10.19.40.png
Yes, I was able to get the ESX-8GT to respond to moving that knob.

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by morbank » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:48 am

Is the Live file I sent working for you?

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Re: ES-40 with UAD Apollo?

Post by os » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:49 am

Just looked at your Live file. The base note should be 36, for the MIDI clip you have.

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