Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

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khollister
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Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:14 am

I have been successfully using an ES-40 and 2 ESX-8MD's with Logic. I needed to use Cubase the other day for something (11.0.10) and could not get the ES-4 controller SW to work regardless of what I tried (v 2.9.0). I know there have been threads here and on GS ad Reddit about this in the past, but it seems it was never solved or someone would claim success without explaining what solved it.

I have tried different headers on the ES-40, double checked all the mixer/channel gain & phase settings in Cubase, and did get everything to work in Studio One with the VST3 SW plugin with no issues. Since this works as expected in Logic & S1, I think I can rule out HW issues or operator error as far as the SW ES-4 controller plugin goes.

One really bizarre thing I noticed at one point was when I had the expanders connected to headers 4 & 5, the appropriate LED's would light if I manually set the outputs using the ES-4 Output controls, but MIDI would not pass. However, selecting MIDI outputs 1/1, 2/1, 2/3 or 2/8 would successfully route MIDI on the expander port that was 5/5 !!. I have not been successful at repeating anything like this with the expanders on headers 1 & 2.

I'm using an Apollo X6 BTW, MacOS 11.1 on Intel (iMac Pro).

Cubase isn't my main DAW, but I would like to occasionally use it.
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by os » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:24 am

The VST3 spec doesn't allow for passing arbitrary MIDI to plug-ins. Such is the price of 'progress'.

khollister
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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:38 am

Since the SW VST2 plugins aren't recognized by Cubase, that means this is permanently dead on Cubase?
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by os » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:56 am

I could do VST2 versions of the necessary Silent Way plug-ins, but that's a considerable maintenance version. It would be better if Steinberg sorted out the VST3 spec.

khollister
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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:51 am

You already have VST2 versions but they don’t get recognized by Cubase. What’s that all about? And the VST3 SW plug-ins work just fine in S1
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by os » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am

That's Steinberg deliberately breaking VST2 support in Cubase to try to force people into using VST3.

They work in Studio One? Maybe I've misunderstood what it is you want to do in Cubase. Obviously if it works in one DAW it could potentially work in the other as well.

khollister
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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:48 am

I'm simply trying to use the SW ES-4 controller plugin as an instrument in an instrument track, feed it MIDI and have the ES-40/ESX-8MD spit out sample accurate MIDI on the other end. Granted I'm not a plugin developer, but I fail to see how Cubase would prevent a software instrument plugin from accepting any valid MIDI.
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by os » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:52 am

OK yes that should work. (This is the plug-in accepting notes and turning them into MIDI. In VST2 you simply have a direct way of sending MIDI - any MIDI - into the plug-in.)

khollister
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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:13 am

os wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am
That's Steinberg deliberately breaking VST2 support in Cubase to try to force people into using VST3.
It's something else - I removed the VST3 files, left the VST2 versions & restarted Cubase. No Expert Sleepers stuff at all showed up in the plugin manager. I have a bunch of stuff that is VST2 only and Cubase will load that fine. And they don't fail validation and show up in the blacklist either - they are completely ignored.I realize Cubase has recently gone to only using the VST3 version of a plugin if both are installed, but something else is going on here.
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by os » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:27 am

Specifically Steinberg removed support for 'shell' VST2 plug-ins i.e. single plug-in files that actually contain multiple plug-ins. Silent Way is such a plug-in - most aren't.

khollister
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Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:36 am

os wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:27 am
Specifically Steinberg removed support for 'shell' VST2 plug-ins i.e. single plug-in files that actually contain multiple plug-ins. Silent Way is such a plug-in - most aren't.
Ah - got it
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

khollister
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:08 pm

Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:31 am

So, any suggestions on how to debug this with Cubase?
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

khollister
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:08 pm

Re: Is Cubase with ES-40/ESX-8MD hopeless?

Post by khollister » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:59 am

Well, this is odd. I tried Cubase 10.5 this morning (still have it installed) and the header 1 ports work! (1/1-1/8 in ES-4 Controller). If I try the expander connected to header 2 (2/1 - 2/8), I get activity LED's on the selected port as well as all the lower ones, e.g. if I select 2/4 and play some MIDI, I get activity on ports 1, 2 & 3 as well (just on the header 2 expander). However, if I use the output controls to manually set data on the ports, the LED's light individually as expected!

I also am now getting the same behavior on Cubase 11. Both expanders (1 & 2) work perfectly normal with Logic, S1 and a trial of Live I downloaded as a further check.
10 core iMac Pro/64GB, UAD Apollo X6, X8& TBS Satellite, Dynaudio Lyd 5/9S, Roland A-88 & SYSTEM-8, ASM Hydrasynth, Moog Matriarch Dark, 9U/252HP of eurorack stuff, Korg Minilogue XD module, 2 Eventide H9's, Townsend Sphere mic.

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