Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.

Moderators: Kent, os

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Mon May 11, 2020 1:55 pm

os wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:53 pm
Yes.

IDC cables are a doddle to make. No soldering required.
Cool! Thanks for the info.

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:38 am

Just got my ES-3 in this weekend and my initial experiences fucking about w/ sending cv and audio from max has been really encouraging/straightforward, there's really nothing to it besides plug it in and output stuff to the adat channels.. Out of curiosity, what was reason for having the ES-5 as a necessary "intermediary" between ES-3 and ESX8CV? Was there a technical limitation or was that just sort of a conscious design choice.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 14590
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by os » Mon May 18, 2020 10:42 am

The ES-5 splits the stereo pair apart into 48 bits. From there you can add your choice of expanders to use those bits.

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Thu May 21, 2020 12:22 am

Is there a difference between the between the es5encoder~ and es4encoder~ externals besides the quantity of inputs?... asking for a friend.

User avatar
os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 14590
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:55 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by os » Thu May 21, 2020 2:28 am

Yes. One encodes for the E-5, the other encodes for the ES-4/ES-40.

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:14 am

os wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:28 am
Yes. One encodes for the E-5, the other encodes for the ES-4/ES-40.
Okay, thank you.

I've been told that Maxforlive utilities I made for ES-5 + ESX-8GT are also working with the ES-40 + ESX-8GT. I didn't expect that. Curious to learn more.

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Fri May 29, 2020 9:01 am

Got an ESX-8CV and been using the encoders for ES-5 and ESX-8CV and it's all working very NOICELY in standalone max. Then it all came crashing down... is there anyone here with experience/success using these externals in a max4live device? Basically, the [dac~] object just doesn't work in max4live as it does in standalone... you apparently can't just access your dac's direct outs like you would in standalone (eg. [dac~ 1 2 3 4 5 6]). This seems like a pretty arbitrary limitation but who knows.

I asked on the C74 forums as well: https://cycling74.com/forums/is-there-a ... s-directly

:help:

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Fri May 29, 2020 10:53 am

6667 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:01 am
Got an ESX-8CV and been using the encoders for ES-5 and ESX-8CV and it's all working very NOICELY in standalone max. Then it all came crashing down... is there anyone here with experience/success using these externals in a max4live device? Basically, the [dac~] object just doesn't work in max4live as it does in standalone... you apparently can't just access your dac's direct outs like you would in standalone (eg. [dac~ 1 2 3 4 5 6]). This seems like a pretty arbitrary limitation but who knows.

I asked on the C74 forums as well: https://cycling74.com/forums/is-there-a ... s-directly

:help:
Hi I've made a several devices in M4L. Mine use the native Live audio (not dac~).

Check them it out:
https://maxforlive.com/profile/user/bhenry1790

I don't have any ESX expanders (only an ES-5) and I'm interested to know if they work correctly.

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Fri May 29, 2020 1:46 pm

bhenry1790 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:53 am
6667 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:01 am
Got an ESX-8CV and been using the encoders for ES-5 and ESX-8CV and it's all working very NOICELY in standalone max. Then it all came crashing down... is there anyone here with experience/success using these externals in a max4live device? Basically, the [dac~] object just doesn't work in max4live as it does in standalone... you apparently can't just access your dac's direct outs like you would in standalone (eg. [dac~ 1 2 3 4 5 6]). This seems like a pretty arbitrary limitation but who knows.

I asked on the C74 forums as well: https://cycling74.com/forums/is-there-a ... s-directly

:help:
Hi I've made a several devices in M4L. Mine use the native Live audio (not dac~).

Check them it out:
https://maxforlive.com/profile/user/bhenry1790

I don't have any ESX expanders (only an ES-5) and I'm interested to know if they work correctly.
Cool, will give these a go later tonight and report back

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm

No dice with your m4l device unfortunately, couldn't get any output to my ESX-8CV. Might be using it wrong. Ended up throwing together my own device with numboxes w/ full range of cv on ES-3 and ESX-8CV, and it works fine but. The issue is there's no way around using [plugout~] and having to route the signals to the correct ADAT outs with additional Ableton tracks... was just hoping that the solution wasn't gonna involve extra tracks to clutter up the mixer view if I wanted to integrate this w/ existing projects. If only [dac~] just worked like it did in standalone :despair:

Image

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:28 pm

6667 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm
No dice with your m4l device unfortunately, couldn't get any output to my ESX-8CV. Might be using it wrong. Ended up throwing together my own device with numboxes w/ full range of cv on ES-3 and ESX-8CV, and it works fine but. The issue is there's no way around using [plugout~] and having to route the signals to the correct ADAT outs with additional Ableton tracks... was just hoping that the solution wasn't gonna involve extra tracks to clutter up the mixer view if I wanted to integrate this w/ existing projects. If only [dac~] just worked like it did in standalone :despair:

Image
I recently got an ESX-8CV and it's working fine! No need for a additional audio tracks. Check out my renamed ESX8CV Helper.

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6 ... 8cv-helper
Last edited by bhenry1790 on Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kelvisen
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by Kelvisen » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:17 pm

Hello! This seemed like a good place to ask, so apologize if this isn't the right thread. I have the ES-8 (which is awesome) and I want to expand it with the ES-5 and ESX-8CV. Am i correct in assuming i would have 6 available outs on my es-8 usable for CV or audio or gate, 7 available outs on the ES-5 which are gates/triggers and then 8 usable outs on the ESX-CV I can use for CV or gate? Thanks!


bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:01 am

6667 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm
No dice with your m4l device unfortunately, couldn't get any output to my ESX-8CV. Might be using it wrong. Ended up throwing together my own device with numboxes w/ full range of cv on ES-3 and ESX-8CV, and it works fine but. The issue is there's no way around using [plugout~] and having to route the signals to the correct ADAT outs with additional Ableton tracks... was just hoping that the solution wasn't gonna involve extra tracks to clutter up the mixer view if I wanted to integrate this w/ existing projects. If only [dac~] just worked like it did in standalone :despair:
I updated my M4L device and mapped some MIDI LFO and Envelopes to the knobs and it's working great for me. Check it out!
https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6 ... 8cv-helper
Screen Shot 2020-06-26 at 7.22.49 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-06-26 at 7.13.52 PM.png

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:54 pm

6667 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm
No dice with your m4l device unfortunately, couldn't get any output to my ESX-8CV. Might be using it wrong. Ended up throwing together my own device with numboxes w/ full range of cv on ES-3 and ESX-8CV, and it works fine but. The issue is there's no way around using [plugout~] and having to route the signals to the correct ADAT outs with additional Ableton tracks... was just hoping that the solution wasn't gonna involve extra tracks to clutter up the mixer view if I wanted to integrate this w/ existing projects. If only [dac~] just worked like it did in standalone :despair:
I used your method to create an ESX8CV Track Helper to send output from the standard Ableton CV Tools to the expander. I just group the tracks to they can be hidden easily.

Send the output of CV tools to an audio track. Pick that audio track in the ESX8CV Track Helper to send to the ES-5/ESX-8CV. In the screenshot I grouped 8 audio tracks and sent various pitch / envelopes from two different CV Instruments to each. All 8 are then chosen / output using the ESX8CV Track Helper M4L Device

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6 ... ack-helper
ESX8CV Track Helper.png
Screen Shot 2020-07-07 at 1.30.43 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-07-07 at 1.29.57 PM.png

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:21 pm

bhenry1790 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:54 pm
6667 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm
No dice with your m4l device unfortunately, couldn't get any output to my ESX-8CV. Might be using it wrong. Ended up throwing together my own device with numboxes w/ full range of cv on ES-3 and ESX-8CV, and it works fine but. The issue is there's no way around using [plugout~] and having to route the signals to the correct ADAT outs with additional Ableton tracks... was just hoping that the solution wasn't gonna involve extra tracks to clutter up the mixer view if I wanted to integrate this w/ existing projects. If only [dac~] just worked like it did in standalone :despair:
I used your method to create an ESX8CV Track Helper to send output from the standard Ableton CV Tools to the expander. I just group the tracks to they can be hidden easily.

Send the output of CV tools to an audio track. Pick that audio track in the ESX8CV Track Helper to send to the ES-5/ESX-8CV. In the screenshot I grouped 8 audio tracks and sent various pitch / envelopes from two different CV Instruments to each. All 8 are then chosen / output using the ESX8CV Track Helper M4L Device

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6 ... ack-helper
ESX8CV Track Helper.png

Screen Shot 2020-07-07 at 1.30.43 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-07-07 at 1.29.57 PM.png
ah nice, awesome to see you ended up getting it working like that. i ended up just using the silent way plugin for ESX-8CV in the end, I didn't realize that it was free which is why I was hacking it up with my janky max device and 8 tracks. your device will def integrate nicely in a live project though, with the range/offsets, might actually give your device a second shot

and again, it really is unfortunate that you can't just use dac~ like you would in a standalone max patch to specify outputs... m4l is great but some of the limitations are pretty frustrating. other thing worth mentioning-- if you're using plugout and specifying channels as args, there's a bug with the object that'll crash your whole project (i mentioned on c74 forums, live tech support confirmed w. me via email), dunno if you've run into it but this might be helpful to know:

https://cycling74.com/forums/m4l-device ... es-ableton

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:04 pm

6667 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:21 pm
ah nice, awesome to see you ended up getting it working like that. i ended up just using the silent way plugin for ESX-8CV in the end, I didn't realize that it was free which is why I was hacking it up with my janky max device and 8 tracks. your device will def integrate nicely in a live project though, with the range/offsets, might actually give your device a second shot

and again, it really is unfortunate that you can't just use dac~ like you would in a standalone max patch to specify outputs... m4l is great but some of the limitations are pretty frustrating. other thing worth mentioning-- if you're using plugout and specifying channels as args, there's a bug with the object that'll crash your whole project (i mentioned on c74 forums, live tech support confirmed w. me via email), dunno if you've run into it but this might be helpful to know:

https://cycling74.com/forums/m4l-device ... es-ableton
Pay OS some damn money and buy Silent Way already! He's not doing this for his health! :lol:

Yeah! My M4L device works great once the "plumbing" is setup, but I totally agree it'd be awesome to send audio through dac~ directly bypassing Ableton's tracks.

The only crashes I have with M4L and Live are caused by doing wacky stuff in Max and keeping things running in Live. I've been lucky, but every single crash was totally understandable.

Having fun creating these little widgets, I'm currently working on a "Voltage-Block"-like device. Maybe we should start a separate M4L/ES thread?

6667
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by 6667 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:02 pm

bhenry1790 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:04 pm
6667 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:21 pm
ah nice, awesome to see you ended up getting it working like that. i ended up just using the silent way plugin for ESX-8CV in the end, I didn't realize that it was free which is why I was hacking it up with my janky max device and 8 tracks. your device will def integrate nicely in a live project though, with the range/offsets, might actually give your device a second shot

and again, it really is unfortunate that you can't just use dac~ like you would in a standalone max patch to specify outputs... m4l is great but some of the limitations are pretty frustrating. other thing worth mentioning-- if you're using plugout and specifying channels as args, there's a bug with the object that'll crash your whole project (i mentioned on c74 forums, live tech support confirmed w. me via email), dunno if you've run into it but this might be helpful to know:

https://cycling74.com/forums/m4l-device ... es-ableton
Pay OS some damn money and buy Silent Way already! He's not doing this for his health! :lol:

Yeah! My M4L device works great once the "plumbing" is setup, but I totally agree it'd be awesome to send audio through dac~ directly bypassing Ableton's tracks.

The only crashes I have with M4L and Live are caused by doing wacky stuff in Max and keeping things running in Live. I've been lucky, but every single crash was totally understandable.

Having fun creating these little widgets, I'm currently working on a "Voltage-Block"-like device. Maybe we should start a separate M4L/ES thread?
yea, i'll throw some cash over right after i finish my collection of esx-8cvs here heh... anyway would love to see whatever you're working on, your m4l patches look way more put together than mine lol. only reason i returned to euro really was to build a small system with a couple voices, but with modulation entirely from max/m4l via es3 + expanders. it's actually working out better than I thought, wondering if anyone else is doing something similar...

bhenry1790
Common Wiggler
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Post by bhenry1790 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:03 pm

Yeah, I just got my first ESX-8CV recently and realize I would like many more. The native audio outputs on ES-9 feel too "expensive" to use for modulation.

My original plan was ES-5 + (2) ESX-8GT + (3) ESX-8CV... but now I kinda feel like the GT I have is a waste?

One really cool thing about my ESX8CV Track Helper is I can now calibrate modules that only respond to positive voltage. In the past I have trouble calibrating Manis Iteritas with CV Tools. Now just limit the pass through on the helper channel to 0% - 100% (no offset). Works perfect! Love my Expert Sleepers even more now!

Post Reply

Return to “Expert Sleepers”