Ok, i just discovered this treat and and i feel at last i'm not alone, i've been working with Max and ES for a time now and i think is a marvelous combination. I'm not a Max expert but i do my best.
Here you can see two video explorations i made about one year ago, using Max, ES-3, Modular and Lemur and Konkreet Performer.
[video][/video]
[video][/video]
Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid
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subultresk
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Great that it is cleared how maximization on ES-3 and ES-4 works and what's possible! Thanks again!
One thing i will do for sure for my applications is the development of a TOOL-Kit. While the CV from ESX-4CV will act mainly independent there are some very common usages of 8-Gates-blocks for ESX-8GT, like Clock-Divider (i.e. A-160) Clock-Sequencer (i.e. A-161) or Random Gates (i.e. A-149-2).
Since i started the esencoder~ Help-file with BinToInt i thought, i'll show the other way around (IntToBin). This would be used, if the sent values (to ESX-8GT) are further needed in MAX - it is 0-255 (Int) shown as 8 Gates (Bin).
The RND-Gates example does pretty much the same as the Doepfer A-149-2.
I added the DIVIDER example because the programming is almost similar to IntToBin - it uses the Divide- and Modulo-objects. I simulated a Trigger-Signal as a 1 (On) which is followed by 0 (Off) after 30ms.
To come as close as possible to the Doepfer modules behaviors the jumpers on the ESX-8GT have to be set to 12V.
The A-149-2 is 0/12V and the A-160 0/10V. AFAIK the Doepfer Triggers are 50ms.
You can download the patch here.
One thing i will do for sure for my applications is the development of a TOOL-Kit. While the CV from ESX-4CV will act mainly independent there are some very common usages of 8-Gates-blocks for ESX-8GT, like Clock-Divider (i.e. A-160) Clock-Sequencer (i.e. A-161) or Random Gates (i.e. A-149-2).
Since i started the esencoder~ Help-file with BinToInt i thought, i'll show the other way around (IntToBin). This would be used, if the sent values (to ESX-8GT) are further needed in MAX - it is 0-255 (Int) shown as 8 Gates (Bin).
The RND-Gates example does pretty much the same as the Doepfer A-149-2.
I added the DIVIDER example because the programming is almost similar to IntToBin - it uses the Divide- and Modulo-objects. I simulated a Trigger-Signal as a 1 (On) which is followed by 0 (Off) after 30ms.
To come as close as possible to the Doepfer modules behaviors the jumpers on the ESX-8GT have to be set to 12V.
The A-149-2 is 0/12V and the A-160 0/10V. AFAIK the Doepfer Triggers are 50ms.
You can download the patch here.
Last edited by subultresk on Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:11 am, edited 11 times in total.
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subultresk
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Welcome Leoespejo! I already expected you cause i've seen you in so many threads i've visited...Leoespejo wrote:Ok, i just discovered this treat and and i feel at last i'm not alone, i've been working with Max and ES for a time now and i think is a marvelous combination.
I own Lemur, but i've never used it (too complicated?)
If i see it correctly you are using the Lemur clock options a lot. How is the timing with Max?
subultresk wrote:I own Lemur, but i've never used it (too complicated?)
No, not really but you should understand how OSC works and maybe use some OSC externals. OSC rocks !!!
No, i'm not using Lemur's clock, i'm using it mostly to modulate paramenters and to control a Max/MSP patch that sends CV with sig~ and divides clocks in many, many different divisions.subultresk wrote:If i see it correctly you are using the Lemur clock options a lot. How is the timing with Max?
BTW, i'm working now in a patch sending sound to a Buchla 200e and processing it with Euro and Buchla, is real fun i'll upload a demo video when i have some time.
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subultresk
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subultresk wrote:I own Lemur, but i've never used it (too complicated?)
Leoespejo wrote:No, not really but you should understand how OSC works and maybe use some OSC externals. OSC rocks !!!
i also use OSC a lot and prefer it to MIDI because of the 14bit. It's more the complexity of Lemur (container etc.) that holds me off using it. I was just about to intensify my concentration on Lemur when MIRA came out - which took all my time...
This is a software i wrote for a piece of a sardinian composer (G. Tedde) - for voice and live-electronic. It's designed to put the computer away and only use it during the performance - from distance - as a monitor on stage - for the singer to see peak-meters and the step-number (for insurance-feel). The singer uses a foot-switch to go through the steps. For rehearsals and corrections during the performance the composer (or player of the live-electronic) can change the steps via iPhone.
If you like to listen to the piece: "Morite" by Giorgio Tedde - it's here. For voice and live-electronic. Sylvia Nopper-mezzosopran; Thomas Kessler-live-electronic.
Now i am working on a version for MIRA - it's not ready yet... I like MIRA because it allows to be a bit lazier.
Also, i know some more Max-tricks to let MIRA do what wasn't intended yet (with OSC i use TouchOsc which is great, but pretty restricted).
With OSC i still have a better feeling, but i hope this will change soon!
Wow! I'm looking forward to watch that video!Leoespejo wrote:BTW, i'm working now in a patch sending sound to a Buchla 200e and processing it with Euro and Buchla, is real fun i'll upload a demo video when i have some time.
Last edited by subultresk on Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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subultresk
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hhmmm - so quiet…..
i made a little video about my proposal for little barebones-Max-modules.
Especially when many ESX-8GT modules are used, it's easy that several module-replica would share one ESX-8GT - or could be routed to it…
This would be something like the core of a A-149-1 and a full A-149-2 Random Generator, a A-160 Clock-Divider and a A-161 Clock-Sequencer.
I'm thinking about some kind of Bus-system.
This ESX-8GT is still 0/5V.
Inclusive a little speed/stress-test!
[video][/video]
i made a little video about my proposal for little barebones-Max-modules.
Especially when many ESX-8GT modules are used, it's easy that several module-replica would share one ESX-8GT - or could be routed to it…
This would be something like the core of a A-149-1 and a full A-149-2 Random Generator, a A-160 Clock-Divider and a A-161 Clock-Sequencer.
I'm thinking about some kind of Bus-system.
This ESX-8GT is still 0/5V.
Inclusive a little speed/stress-test!
[video][/video]
Fascinating, even though I don't fully understand - not a Max user. Great video.
Funny, I like speed tests, too
. I was posting it for something else and then came here and saw your vid.Oh, and it's nice to make your acquaintance, as well.
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subultresk
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Thanks bil_g. I don't understand it either but i'm just working with it.bil_g wrote:
Fascinating, even though I don't fully understand - not a Max user. Great video.
Funny, I like speed tests, too
… Max is especially very cool IF you don't understand because those little objects host C-codes! Today Max is a huge thing (+MSP+Jitter+Gen+M4L) - i can't imagine how my "first contact" would feel today. I am an early time Max user (i think my 25th anniversary will be next year) - it was only MIDI or serial and a kind of wedge to get into the "closed" synths of that time - like Yamaha TX816 or TG77 which i used a lot. Also i started Live-sampling with an AKAI900 Sampler. To do that i wrote the sysex-codes of the AKAI900-knobs (menu-stepping) which enabled me to do 30 steps in a part of a second.
This is a video from Jan/93 with Frank Gratkowski, me, Mac SE-30, AKAI900, TX816, TG77and a Digigram-MIDI-microphone. Max analyzed Frank's playing and listened to special interval-chains to send "bangs" which caused the machines to play or start a sampler-recording etc.. Everything was pretty complex and organized - it was a composition and less randomly than it looks/sounds…
[video][/video]
Last edited by subultresk on Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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subultresk
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Since there is (still) an error in my ES-video i would like to find an answer to that question. It seems i still haven't understood the reaction-time-thing correctly.
If on an Es-4 with 44.1kHz the ESX-8GT "reacts" also in 44.1kHz - is it only the ESX-4CV that runs in 5512.5Hz or is it the term "react" that is wrong?
I don't get it!
If on an Es-4 with 44.1kHz the ESX-8GT "reacts" also in 44.1kHz - is it only the ESX-4CV that runs in 5512.5Hz or is it the term "react" that is wrong?
I don't get it!
Last edited by subultresk on Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
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- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
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- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
Thanks Os!
it looks like we are finally through with the technical side of your great modules (and i will do the correction in the video).
Thanks again for your help!
At least it's very simple and clear:
everything is running "normal". The ESX-4CV acts like a LFO which is able to run at quite high frequencies - and like other LFO-modules it offers ±5V.
(edit: to give a measurement: a piano is ca. 27Hz to 4200Hz.)
Man - sometimes i just need too long to get things!
Many questions have been answered - i try to give a résumé and index in the first post of this topic (in blue).
Now could be the time to share some ideas about Max/MSP "barebones-modules" and the instruments technical design.
What should be analog and what can be digital?
My concentration was mainly on LFO, Gates and Triggers. This keeps everything "alive" and doesn't destroy the analog feel of the instrument.
In the moment i assume to do the panning mainly with Max/MSP (also the final mix). Modules that migrated to Max/MSP in my instrument:
Sequencer, LFO, Random Generator, Env-Fol, Preamps, FX and mainly every digital processing (that's quite a lot of HP and $).
I like the EG and VCA/LPG for their individual character - this is very different from digital envelopes (from my view). That's why i want to keep them as hardware.
The important analog modules in my synth are VCO, Filter/Waveshaper, Mixer, EG, VCA and some Utility-modules (CV-Switches and -Faders, Attenuators/Polarizers, Comparator, MinMax, Rectifier, Logic) for being able to interact on the hardware-side of the synth. There are also three individual Interface-modules (Joystick, Foot-Control and Ribbon).
I still have a Random-Generator-module - i just bought a Wogglebug because of the clock-generator and burst-option. While Max offers endless and deep possibilities to produce random values, a random module keeps it's own secrets - which is some kind of random too…
My DSP-layout:
at this point i am going to group some things
1. Analog Audio I/O (audio).
2. Digital Audio I/O (CV)
3. Panning
4. FX - which is everything like Granulizer, Filter, Sampler, FFT etc.
5. Control - which is not Controllers, but Tables, Random/Math, Harmonizer, Quantizer, Sequencer, LFO etc.
6. Preset
7. Interface - which is a bit MIDI and a lot iPad (OSC or MIRA)
In general i am very close to switch using "hot" data (like Stretta's BEAP) in many more areas, because it feels very nice, analog and hot!
For this forum the 5th might the most interesting point, because it virtualizes hardware modules - which are again de-virtualized through the ES-modules. I thought of some core-barebones - a tool-box with "modules" that can be modified/customized easily. That is LFO, Clock-operations, Divider, Sequencer and Random Generators.
My personal interest goes to Micro-Tuning, Polyphony and Analysis/Re-Synthesis. I'd like to speak into a mic and listen to the re-synthesis from 16 Dixie-sines. I want my Software-Granulizer to be controlled by my Maths. It is just what a ghost-voice and placards taught me in London: minding the gap!
it looks like we are finally through with the technical side of your great modules (and i will do the correction in the video).
Thanks again for your help!
At least it's very simple and clear:
everything is running "normal". The ESX-4CV acts like a LFO which is able to run at quite high frequencies - and like other LFO-modules it offers ±5V.
(edit: to give a measurement: a piano is ca. 27Hz to 4200Hz.)
Man - sometimes i just need too long to get things!
Many questions have been answered - i try to give a résumé and index in the first post of this topic (in blue).
Now could be the time to share some ideas about Max/MSP "barebones-modules" and the instruments technical design.
What should be analog and what can be digital?
My concentration was mainly on LFO, Gates and Triggers. This keeps everything "alive" and doesn't destroy the analog feel of the instrument.
In the moment i assume to do the panning mainly with Max/MSP (also the final mix). Modules that migrated to Max/MSP in my instrument:
Sequencer, LFO, Random Generator, Env-Fol, Preamps, FX and mainly every digital processing (that's quite a lot of HP and $).
I like the EG and VCA/LPG for their individual character - this is very different from digital envelopes (from my view). That's why i want to keep them as hardware.
The important analog modules in my synth are VCO, Filter/Waveshaper, Mixer, EG, VCA and some Utility-modules (CV-Switches and -Faders, Attenuators/Polarizers, Comparator, MinMax, Rectifier, Logic) for being able to interact on the hardware-side of the synth. There are also three individual Interface-modules (Joystick, Foot-Control and Ribbon).
I still have a Random-Generator-module - i just bought a Wogglebug because of the clock-generator and burst-option. While Max offers endless and deep possibilities to produce random values, a random module keeps it's own secrets - which is some kind of random too…
My DSP-layout:
at this point i am going to group some things
1. Analog Audio I/O (audio).
2. Digital Audio I/O (CV)
3. Panning
4. FX - which is everything like Granulizer, Filter, Sampler, FFT etc.
5. Control - which is not Controllers, but Tables, Random/Math, Harmonizer, Quantizer, Sequencer, LFO etc.
6. Preset
7. Interface - which is a bit MIDI and a lot iPad (OSC or MIRA)
In general i am very close to switch using "hot" data (like Stretta's BEAP) in many more areas, because it feels very nice, analog and hot!
For this forum the 5th might the most interesting point, because it virtualizes hardware modules - which are again de-virtualized through the ES-modules. I thought of some core-barebones - a tool-box with "modules" that can be modified/customized easily. That is LFO, Clock-operations, Divider, Sequencer and Random Generators.
My personal interest goes to Micro-Tuning, Polyphony and Analysis/Re-Synthesis. I'd like to speak into a mic and listen to the re-synthesis from 16 Dixie-sines. I want my Software-Granulizer to be controlled by my Maths. It is just what a ghost-voice and placards taught me in London: minding the gap!
Last edited by subultresk on Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
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- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
… topic seems to be dead already…
(can't stand it!)
Os, your modules are SO MUCH FUN! My Sunday-Thanks!
[video][/video]
I'm not sure if the 2^n states are correct… (i'd like to compare it to the module which i've never met yet).
Has somebody ever measured the output?
Cheers
(can't stand it!)
Os, your modules are SO MUCH FUN! My Sunday-Thanks!
[video][/video]
I'm not sure if the 2^n states are correct… (i'd like to compare it to the module which i've never met yet).
Has somebody ever measured the output?
Cheers
Last edited by subultresk on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
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- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
Another little Bit-Shift-Patch-video (with audio):
(edited…)
(edited…)
Last edited by subultresk on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
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- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
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subultresk
- Wiggling with Experience
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
- Location: Wildeshausen
