Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.

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os
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Post by os » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:32 pm

Woot. I'll update the other externals tomorrow.

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hpsounds
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Post by hpsounds » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:53 pm

subultresk wrote:10.6.8 evidence.
Me too ! :hyper: :nana: :tu: :yay: :stardance: :spin: :rastanana: :wookie: :chug: :drums:

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Thanks OS !!!! :hail:

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Post by os » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:20 am

I've updated the ES-4, ES-5 and ESX-4CV externals for 10.6:

http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/downloads.html

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Post by hpsounds » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:41 am

:hyper: :guinness: :yay:

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OS, you are providing the BEST CUSTOMERS' SUPPORT EVER ! :tu: :banana: :hail:

H.

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Post by subultresk » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:20 pm

hpsounds wrote::hyper: :guinness: :yay:

OS, you are providing the BEST CUSTOMERS' SUPPORT EVER ! :tu: :banana: :hail:

H.
Yes, really remarkable - and MW isn't the only place Os has "under control"!
Unbelievable! Possibly we are speaking with several Os'ses… :hmm:
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Post by subultresk » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:05 pm

some more useful things…

FM/AM LFO attenuator. While FM adds and subtracts around the pole (0) the AM was a bit tricky because the VCA has to be 1. when LFO is set to 0. The LFO only subtracts from the VCA maximum.

Image

A kind of Planar - it's one of several "firmware"-sets for my new iPad gesture control. It's switchable between "mono-, stereo- and quad-output. The corners only output A/B/C/ or D and the center point outputs all with equal power. If cv X/Y is below 50%, only one side is affected by the LFO.

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And look! I visited a very aged metalsmith to get some more hardware. He does all that nice stuff for me you can't buy (like the Mini-flange/Mic- and iPad-holder). Even anodized aluminum isn't an obstacle! All my Ultimate stands have been shortened etc. pp. - he is close to 80 years now! This is golden craftsmanship!

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f33d
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Post by f33d » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:46 am

Hello everybody,

this is my first real post here.

I am waiting for the makenoise shared system. it's my first modular. I joined maxmsp since max6 and made some custom things that work, but programming is not that instant "fun playing" - you have to know exactly what you want beforehand... reading help patches etc.... you know the deal.
I would like to dive in ES (got a RME UCX) because of flexibility & possibility of saving money - programming uScale or Pams workout, e.g. instead of buying them. Or new, custom modules like a "just intonation" module. I also made some basic Lemur/iPad controllers - so there would be some controllers.
My question to you is if this does make sense. Can one program different euro-modules in maxmsp? My problem is I don't know even the basics of eurorack. I found the beginners-thread overwhelming & didn't find "real basics".
How does a uScale make the makenoise DPO sing in a scale? Only by varying voltage? How are the euro modules communicating in general? I just can't understand this, but I would like to very much. I want to know what is theoretical possible with maxmsp/ES. Do you know of a good "basics of eurorack" link?
I didn't made a new thread because I think people would point me to this thread, but it's too much for me for the start. I tried to follow... so sorry for hijacking.

There seems to be a general line of advantages of max & eurorack. What I mean is something like MATHS: maxmsp is perfect to make such module which could be even much more complex - meta-dynamic-envelopes etc. So there would be no need to buy MATHS...??? but DPO on the other hand works on vactrols + is analog, which max can't do. So there could be something like a general guideline for achieving "best of both worlds". Does this make sense at all or do I hallucinating bullshit? What are your thoughts on this?
:hmm: :omg:

Thank you & greetings from Vienna//Austria

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Post by subultresk » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Welcome f33d. Congrats for the comfortable environment that you are starting with! Not the worst choices… ;-)

I don't know what you want to do, but the way you're asking tells me that it seems to be a well chosen equipment to go further on this track. Technically i'm a nut, but you don't have to know everything exactly if you want to use it in musical contexts - as you don't need to know how to build a car if you want to drive it. But there are certain things you should know and you will learn it pretty quick.

"Instant fun playing" is possible with everything. Instead of paying an instrument you could pay for a custom development of a software environment with interface - which would be more or less "the same" - it's that part of work and the use of money/lifetime which makes the difference.

Of course you can "clone" many modules in Max/MSP, but your DSP system has limited resources. Therefore you have to make decisions. You've pointed out already a very interesting point, the quantization. This is mainly division and you should look for the range and the resolution to find out, if you can reach that frequencies you're looking for.

example:
ES-4/out1/8bit=256 steps/5 octaves and 4 halftones.
Since 4 steps are one halftone, 256 steps (8bit) will result in a range of 64 halftones. The smallest step (one step) is an eighth-tone - that's ok with equal tonalities but not a very good resolution for tunings. The 12bit resolution (out 3-5) might be better, but it gives ±5V, not 0-10V. These are the things you will have to deal with.

Gates are around 5V and triggers between 8 and 12V. If you want to use triggers you might look for an ESX-8GT mk1 because they are not passive and can be set to 12V with jumpers. The Doepfer A-149-2 also has 12V outputs (if you are thinking 12V could be too much). In your setup might be an Optomix - the strike CV is waiting for 8V and a 5V strike will not make you happy - at least 12V will be better than 5V in this case (if you want to send it from Max/ES), but you can do that conversion/translation with other modules as well.

Take a look at Stretta's brilliant BEAP project to learn more about Modulars and MSP.
Last edited by subultresk on Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by thermionicjunky » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:37 pm

f33d wrote: I would like to dive in ES (got a RME UCX)
CV is just like analog audio, but can go down to 0Hz. Your interface can connect to the ES-3 and ES-6/7, which can output and input MSP signals as voltage. The ES-3 and ES-6 treat the signal range of -1 to +1 like the voltage range of -10 to +10. They use the audio sampling rate and have 24-bit resolution. Anything that can be done to audio in MSP can be done to control voltage using ES hardware.

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Post by subultresk » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:41 am

If you are interested into tuning rather than quantizing the 2nd video might be interesting too. If you are using PlugIns and Modulars the Silent Way Suite could be a big help!

[video][/video]

[video][/video]
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Post by Howes » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:40 am

Amazing thread.

I love the idea of making Max 'modules' and I'm currently doing my university final research thing with max/ES-3 making some really shitty modules whilst learning max.

http://www.spontaneousrhythm.com/max/

You can download them at the link above, will post any future updates here (all thats finished so far is a shitty sequencer)

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Post by f33d » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:13 am

I just wanted to thank for your responses. I still keep them in my mind. Thought it's kind of unpolite to ask, then get help & don't respond.
Just got my shared system & diving into it. I'll still need a little time to see the real potential of ES.
at the moment only complex functions & quantization pop into my mind & both can be made in the hardware. (maths & I also bought Toppobrillo Quantimator, instead of programming something similar in maxmsp.)
on "macro"-side of feelings ES-modules are a little un-sexy. Because there is this idea of - "I just paid this huge amount of money for hardware & now I loose precious hp-space for "just going back to computer"".

One important thing could be pitch following - as it's still not that easy to do, even with maxmsp (live pitch to midi with fzero is really shaky e.g.). Does the silent sleeper suite got a pitch to cv plugin?

But there is also this idea that it is very reasonable to dive into ES. "Best of both world" or Even just because there is a "midi-note to cv" already integrated. So there would be no need for midi2cv module.

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Post by subultresk » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:43 pm

For Pitch-Following there are several useful objects. It all began with Miller Puckette's "bonk–" and and "fiddle"-objects. Check out his great analysis-object "sigmund~". It's here.

A most usefull package might be Tristan Jehan's MSP-externals
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Post by moonkid » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Hey everybody,
I too just stumbled upon this great thread.....I scanned through, but I was hoping for a simple comparison between the ES-3, ES-4/40,ms-812, or anything else comparable in regards to processing the highest possible resolution audio from max with my modular.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!

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os
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Post by os » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:36 pm

If you want to process audio, why do you need any of this stuff? Any audio interface will work just fine.

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Post by moonkid » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:40 pm

thanks os, I hear ya.

Well, i found the option of having one cable (spdif or Ethernet ) elegant, and I will also be sending clocks and cv..... but my first priority is processing audio.

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Post by os » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 am

You probably want an ES-3/ES-6 then, which would give you plenty of channels to do all that.

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Post by accountboy » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:05 am

Are there any cool Max4Live modules I could try with my ES-3?

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subultresk
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Post by subultresk » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:13 pm

Ok - after a break since november (!) i am coming back slowly - my audio interfaces had to be sent to Florida and back. It was a very hard time!! :eek:

To bump the topic back to top - this is my "comeback"-patch just for tuning in again …

I've never touched a MN-Pressure-Points, but it should be almost an iPP. :party:

[video][/video]


cheers,

Jochen
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Post by sushiluv » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:08 pm

wow, this is great.

i´m totally new to max and as it happens i approached also a pressurepoints emulation for maxforlive.

it´s not as advanced, three cv outs, one gate out and pressure sensitivity on the fourth cv out gets emulated through the x position of a touched fader. controls are mapped with OSC and i´m using the lemur app.
sorry, don´t know how to embed :)

it has midi in, so you can play the eight stages and record it to a clip or have it sequenced with another sequencer.

cheers

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Post by subultresk » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:15 pm

Looks great! :tu:

You can use the Video button, but you need to erase the "s" of the "https"-YouTube- or Vimeo-address. Just paste the address, erase the "s", select it and click the video button… :party:

sushiluv wrote:wow, this is great.

i´m totally new to max and as it happens i approached also a pressurepoints emulation for maxforlive.

it´s not as advanced, three cv outs, one gate out and pressure sensitivity on the fourth cv out gets emulated through the x position of a touched fader. controls are mapped with OSC and i´m using the lemur app.

[video][/video]

it has midi in, so you can play the eight stages and record it to a clip or have it sequenced with another sequencer.

cheers
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sushiluv
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Post by sushiluv » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:28 pm

thanks!

maxforlive and expert sleepers is exciting and slowly i´m getting around it.
i wanted to learn max since years but had to buy a modularsynth to get into it, that´s ironic :)

i´m that close to order a second ESX 8CV :75:

cheers

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Post by subultresk » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:38 pm

Yes - this stuff can do so many things you'd have to pay much more for (in "real" modules)…
my instrument has 40xCV and 40xGate (from Expert Sleepers modules) at the moment… :roll:
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Post by f33d » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:22 am

Hi there,

Just a quick question: Does one really need the ES3 to work with ES6? It kind of sucks, because I just want to get notes & modulations out of my modular into software atm...
Last edited by f33d on Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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os
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Post by os » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:46 am

Yes, you do.

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