[STG] HORRIBLE COMMUNICATION - RESOLVED...

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qu.one
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[STG] HORRIBLE COMMUNICATION - RESOLVED...

Post by qu.one » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:14 pm

[6-3-14 Update] Last night I received a package that I was not expecting. I didn't realize the address at first so I just opened it up. Low and behold — it's a brand new Graphic Sequencer. Huge thank you to STG for making me one happy wiggler.

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ORIGINAL POST:

I moved my Graphic Sequencer into another case, and something happened to cause the module to stop working properly. I hadn't known there were issues with how sensitive they can be and might required a fix. I reached out to STG and the chain below shows how infrequent he is to respond. 3 times in total since October 31, 2013. I included a video in my original email showing it working incorrectly.

After 19 days from original email saying the microprocessor was fried, his response was:
"hey it's closer. i've got the SMT work lined up with the new place and i hope to be able to send you a new board by the end of the year."

TWO MONTHS LATER (post new year) and I got this response:
"I'm sorry, I didn't realize I hadn't replied to your email. I was getting ready for the NAMM convention and generally running around like a chicken with its head cut off. the boards are at the assembly house and I'm just waiting for them to build them up. they're taking longer than last time. I'm not happy about that."

You can see my last two emails from today at the bottom. Just wanted to share here in case anyone was having similar issues. We're approaching 4 months of some of the worst communication I have possibly ever dealt with.

All I need is an update. Give me an honest estimate. At this time I am just waiting to get my module fixed (hoping it actually does) and then sell it. If anyone wants it as it stands, send me a PM.

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Last edited by qu.one on Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by morphic » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:21 pm

fair play to you Stephen for waiting this long

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Post by qu.one » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:47 pm

I didn't want to do this at all, but sometimes making things public can help.
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Post by bwhittington » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:27 am

Not an isolated happening (viewtopic.php?t=41075). I've heard sporadic just-hunting-for-an-SMT-shop type updates for over two years for a module I prepaid in full (promise date was 10-12 weeks). Eric seems to be a super nice guy and all of that, but the seemingly less than straight-forward updates are a bit tiring. Not pouting too much, but it would be nice to hear, "yeah, that one's been back-burnered 'til 2016" or whatever.

Best of luck with your repair.

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Re: [STG] HORRIBLE COMMUNICATION

Post by lvoemachine » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:50 am

Did you plug it in backwards? Did it get voltage it shouldn't have? Did you buy it new?
qu.one wrote:I moved my Graphic Sequencer into another case, and something happened to cause the module to stop working properly. I hadn't known there were issues with how sensitive they can be and might required a fix. I reached out to STG and the chain below shows how infrequent he is to respond. 3 times in total since October 31, 2013. I included a video in my original email showing it working incorrectly.

After 19 days from original email saying the microprocessor was fried, his response was:
"hey it's closer. i've got the SMT work lined up with the new place and i hope to be able to send you a new board by the end of the year."

TWO MONTHS LATER (post new year) and I got this response:
"I'm sorry, I didn't realize I hadn't replied to your email. I was getting ready for the NAMM convention and generally running around like a chicken with its head cut off. the boards are at the assembly house and I'm just waiting for them to build them up. they're taking longer than last time. I'm not happy about that."

You can see my last two emails from today at the bottom. Just wanted to share here in case anyone was having similar issues. We're approaching 4 months of some of the worst communication I have possibly ever dealt with.

All I need is an update. Give me an honest estimate. At this time I am just waiting to get my module fixed (hoping it actually does) and then sell it. If anyone wants it as it stands, send me a PM.

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Post by suitandtieguy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:00 am

I was going to fix your second-hand module (that you fried through mishandling) for free out of professional courtesy, and this is the way you respond: I get an email with nothing but a mailing address back and this post here, a story with details left out to make yourself look like more of a victim.

I don't even know what to type. I actually do owe some people things, if they want to poundcake me I totally understand but this is just unreal.
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:22 am

Well, I don't mean to sound like an ass or to poundcake anyone but I have been waiting on an answer on those Graphic Sequencer boards for quite some time myself.

viewtopic.php?t=95631&start=all&postday ... torder=asc

An update is long overdue.
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Post by carynrich » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:06 pm

I asked a question about distro boards a while ago cause i needed to buy a lot. Never got an answer. My impression was that unless you're part of the inner circle, you may not get a response :despair:

Ended up buying a bunch of oakley dizzy boards which work just fine.

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Post by qu.one » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:38 pm

Unreal? Details left out? I've owned hundreds of modules over the past few years and never had one die. All I wanted were updates. Simple as that. I wrote that last email and said you know what - I'm just going to post something about this now. I thought I had waited long enough for any solid answers, and I have no idea how long it might take you to respond. And yes, I wrote you just an address as my last response via email because you gave me a story about you're still not happy that you're waiting on boards and someone will let you borrow their unit to help fix mine. You asked me to give you an address so I did.

I'm a little sorry that this turned public, but I thought that might actually yield some results. I'm sure you'll comment in this thread more than you've done with me through emails in 4 months.

So where does this leave me? I'll pay you for the new board if you're sayig you won't fix this one out of "progressional courtesy."
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Post by lvoemachine » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:56 pm

Well the last time I talked to STG and asked about sequencer boards (I want to put together a whole cab of his sequencing) it seemed like there was a bit of a wait in getting everything verified that the new SMT company was building with all the new products and shifting over manufacturing and redesigning a ton of products that are currently for sale. Not that it makes it easier on you that you didn't hear back, but quite honestly this product isn't on the market even right now due to the part you're requesting (the pcb) being updated.

I'm sure he'll pop in at some point when he knows how long exactly and update us all so we can know how much longer. Saying that he "gave you a story" about waiting on the manufacturing makes you look like a bit of a jerk as you're basically assuming he's just making excuses rather than giving what you were looking for (an update). If he was selling a ton of these, or ANY at all, I'd see your rabid necessity for a constant update but again:

it's a product that's out of stock because euro users constantly plug things in wrong and fry products and needed revising to protect users against themselves.

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:05 pm

lvoemachine wrote:it's a product that's out of stock because euro users constantly plug things in wrong and fry products and needed revising to protect users against themselves.
No disrespect meant towards STG's design capabilities, but it's a product with a major flaw. qu.one might have fried his but mine died without a fault on user's side. I told this to Suit who (in our message exchange) still replied as if I had definitely plugged something wrong, which I did not.

As I said on the other thread this module needs a revision and I'm happy that STG is going forward with one. Waiting on a repair without no estimated date has been a pain though and the non-communication on his part has been a (silent) issue for me as well.

Best option, IMHO, is to refrain from making this a knife party and just be more informative on what the situation is on the board status.
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Post by bint » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:19 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
lvoemachine wrote:it's a product that's out of stock because euro users constantly plug things in wrong and fry products and needed revising to protect users against themselves.
No disrespect meant towards STG's design capabilities, but it's a product with a major flaw. qu.one might have fried his but mine died without a fault on user's side. I told this to Suit who (in our message exchange) still replied as if I had definitely plugged something wrong, which I did not.
Is there a summary anywhere of this issue, how to avoid it or any mods that cen be done to prevent it? Love my graphic sequencer and would hate to fry it..

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Post by lvoemachine » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:57 pm

It can happen if you plug in something else backwards as that sends a 12v pulse up the 5v rail, frying an opamp.

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:12 am

lvoemachine wrote:It can happen if you plug in something else backwards as that sends a 12v pulse up the 5v rail, frying an opamp.
How about patching the Stage 1 output from the GS in the MFB Dual LFO Reset input? Does that sound dangerous? Because that's exactly what fried mine.

And if it were just an opamp fried it wouldn't need a whole board now, would it?
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Post by qu.one » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:42 am

I never plugged it in backwards. The second case I moved it to did not have my 5v adapter in it first. I added it and it and the STG sequencer still did not work. It just sits on stage 1. I've had other modules that require 5v, and they don't break when 5v isn't present. Once it's there, they work fine.

Again - it's not the waiting, it's the absolute poor lack of communication.

And lvoemachine - I see you're in Chicago. I'm sure that's partly why you're in great defense of STG. You're trying to tell me that over a 4 month period he had no way of being able to say when a fix might be ready? The way it was told to me is that these pcbs were ganged up with another and it's just not ready. Starting to seem indefinitely.

And I will pay for the new board at this point.
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Post by Taco Belly » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:03 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:How about patching the Stage 1 output from the GS in the MFB Dual LFO Reset input? Does that sound dangerous? Because that's exactly what fried mine.
Seems like a quit basic patching to me...

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Post by microfauna » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:38 am

bint wrote:Is there a summary anywhere of this issue, how to avoid it or any mods that cen be done to prevent it? Love my graphic sequencer and would hate to fry it..
Definitive advice from Suit would be appreciated.

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:49 am

microfauna wrote:Definitive advice from Suit would be appreciated.
Ha! Inspired by microfauna a while back I bought two GS modules. The one I have for sale is in immaculate condition, so yeah, I would appreciate as well if I got some info on when I'll be able to use my second GS again. :hihi:
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Post by analogsteve » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:30 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:And if it were just an opamp fried it wouldn't need a whole board now, would it?
This is what sucks about SMT. Not many techs want to fiddle around trying to replace tiny SMT components. When a surface-mount component fails, the unit is usually sent back to the manufacturer and the faulty board is swapped out for a new one. This is generally the way SMT stuff is "repaired". Personally I think it's a huge pain in the ass, but this is the way things are done now.
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:36 pm

analogsteve wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:And if it were just an opamp fried it wouldn't need a whole board now, would it?
This is what sucks about SMT. Not many techs want to fiddle around trying to replace tiny SMT components. When a surface-mount component fails, the unit is usually sent back to the manufacturer and the faulty board is swapped out for a new one. This is generally the way SMT stuff is "repaired". Personally I think it's a huge pain in the ass, but this is the way things are done now.
Well, excuse my ignorance but I gave the module to my tech (who is also a friend of mine) and he said the problem is unfortunately not fixable. He's not the type of person who would mind replacing an SMT part as he has done this in the past for some personal projects of mine. I assume a chip was fried for some reason.
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Post by infradead » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:14 pm

viewtopic.php?t=48920&highlight=sequencer

there is some info in there about this issue. someone had it happen with an intellijel flipflop
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Post by causticlogic » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:28 pm

analogsteve wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:And if it were just an opamp fried it wouldn't need a whole board now, would it?
This is what sucks about SMT. Not many techs want to fiddle around trying to replace tiny SMT components. When a surface-mount component fails, the unit is usually sent back to the manufacturer and the faulty board is swapped out for a new one. This is generally the way SMT stuff is "repaired". Personally I think it's a huge pain in the ass, but this is the way things are done now.
Maybe on large volume stuff a board will be scrapped, but on smaller runs, scrapping a board doesn't make much sense - and almost all euro falls into the smaller volume category.
The cost of setting up a line again for another small run is not in a manufacturer's best interest unless there is already another run planned in the immediate future and the cost of the assembly is insignificant.
If you can manufacture SMT, you have people on staff who are able to rework it. An opamp can be pulled off and have another put on in minutes unless you are dealing with larger fine pitch QFPs or TSOPs. And I don't think i've even seen a module with BGAs or QFNs so no trouble there.
For the record, a 16 pin DIP takes longer to rework than a 16 pin SOIC.
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:31 pm

Based on the link infradead posted above it is clear we have an issue at hand. :doh:
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Post by qu.one » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:26 pm

bumping for the situation being reconciled... See original post.
Last edited by qu.one on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:44 pm

qu.one wrote:bumping for the situation being reconciled...

How so?


edit


Read original post being edited. Thanks for letting us know qu.one; personally I'm waiting for an email/PM by STG for months and I can't say I'm a happy wiggler. I know he's got a business to run and all and I'm not complaining but shedding some light on how much we need to wait would help.
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