Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

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jcn7
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Post by jcn7 » Sun May 24, 2015 3:13 pm

Etan wrote:jcn7 this sounds really great. Could you please explain how you did that (only with pinging filters with short triggers?) and which filters you were using?
Here are the explanations that I wrote on Soundcloud with both examples:

1) Euro Filters Dance 1:
I'm using 2 filters in self oscillation mode as the sound sources to create this interesting rhythmic pattern. I'm using a Din Sync "Sara" dual filter and a Manhattan Audio MA35 filter. I'm also using a 4ms RCD into a Fonitronik attenuating mixer to create a kind of a sequencer which is sequencing the MA35 and a bit of the Sara filters. I'm also using a 4ms PEG as 2 independent clocks and EGs for the filters.

Anyway, I just wanted to demonstrate that these filters can make good oscillators as well.

PS...no overdubs by the way, and the verb is an Erbverb.



2) Euro Filters Dance 2 Realtime Manipulations:
So here is another demo of using just 2 oscillators as sound sources:

1) Manhattan Audio MA35
2) Din Sync Sara dual filter

I'm using a 4ms PEG to provide rhythmic tempos and percussive envelopes for each sound source. I'm using the 4 of the outputs from a 4ms RCD into a Fonitronik MH01 Attenuating mixer to create a basic sequencer which in turn controls pitch on both the MA35 and 1 channel of the Sara dual filter. I also have one of the outputs from the RCD and the MH01 mixer going into a Pittsburgh CV Bend module and it's output is fed back into both the other frequency cutoff channel of the Sara filter and one of the PEG's curve inputs. The final audio is being processed through a Make Noise Erverb module.

With this configuration I can make all sorts of cool patterns and other rhythmic concoctions all day long. It really is a great configuration...very versatile.

In this demonstration, I wanted to show how versatile it is by just moving various dials of some of the modules and let it play out for a few minutes.

Hope you all like!

PS...I do not have any standard oscillators in this modular system, but rather use my filters in self oscillation modes as my oscillators instead. I like this approach much better. Besides, I have standard classic synths that I can always tap their oscillators if I want to and feed them into my modular.



Hope this helps...
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Etan
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Post by Etan » Sun May 24, 2015 4:54 pm

thanks for the explanation jcn7, missed those lines on your soundcloud.
So if I get this right these two examples are just self oscillating filters fed into vca just like you would do with an oscillator?

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Post by jcn7 » Sun May 24, 2015 9:09 pm

Etan wrote:thanks for the explanation jcn7, missed those lines on your soundcloud.
So if I get this right these two examples are just self oscillating filters fed into vca just like you would do with an oscillator?
Yes.

Personally, I kind of like using the filters this way more than actually having a dedicated oscillator. Besides I have classic synths that I can tap into their oscillators and feed into my modular setups if I want to.

I also tend to like the limits of a smaller modular setup and I'd rather have modules that do double duty so to speak. Having a smaller modular system really helps me be more creative anyway.
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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by KSS » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:10 pm

AuFX wrote:
Tue May 05, 2015 7:05 pm
In a lot of videos of modular percussion they use self oscillating VCFs to create the sound rather than a VCO.
Why is this?
It's an economical use of resources and gives a decent result.

Opus110 said this in a veiled way and others have gone into various details of how to do it, but this is the reason behind the use.

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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:35 am

KSS wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:10 pm
AuFX wrote:
Tue May 05, 2015 7:05 pm
In a lot of videos of modular percussion they use self oscillating VCFs to create the sound rather than a VCO.
Why is this?
It's an economical use of resources and gives a decent result.

Opus110 said this in a veiled way and others have gone into various details of how to do it, but this is the reason behind the use.
KSS, it was a five-year necrobump.
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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by KSS » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:08 pm

Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:35 am
KSS, it was a five-year necrobump.
Thanks. Not sure why the thread showed up as now there doesn't seem to be any recent post ahead of mine. Strange.

But in principle, I've never understood the bias against re-animating necro-threads. :despair:

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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by IEC » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:19 pm

I just read this and learned how to ping a filter. so its proven more useful to me that 99% of the non necro threads :despair:

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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by Phitar » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:11 pm

Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:35 am

KSS, it was a five-year necrobump.
You know I didn't realize it was an old thread either till I read that. I've noticed quite a few older threads popping back up recently for some reason. Suits me fine if someone finds something new to say about older topics. I found this one to be an interesting read or re-read whichever case it may be. Lot of good info. Glad it popped back up. Makes me want to go searching for those posts regarding Building your own drum patches from scratch again. I've been wanting to dig into that more recently than just triggering a sample from an SD card.
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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by Prunesquallor » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:32 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:08 pm
Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:35 am
KSS, it was a five-year necrobump.
Thanks. Not sure why the thread showed up as now there doesn't seem to be any recent post ahead of mine. Strange.

But in principle, I've never understood the bias against re-animating necro-threads. :despair:
Yeah, depends on the motivation. I admit to being triggered in this case because another poster (not the one here) has recently, and pointlessly, been necroing old threads to rather obviously boost his/her post count. (I think the mods have cleaned up a lot of this.) I lost my cool here. Sorry.
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Re:

Post by jorg » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:44 pm

listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Thu May 07, 2015 10:45 am
Voggg wrote:Verbos ATC is fantastic for percussion. My other filters are not (on their own at least).

As an alternative to pinging, you can set it to self-oscillate and use an AD envelope on the frequency.
Pinging creates a sound with decaying amplitude, not pitch. An alternative to pinging would be setting the filter to self-oscillation and gating the output with a VCA or equivalent, controlled by an envelope. In both cases, you can additionally control the frequency with an envelope to add a slope to the pitch.
I ping my filters with the gate, and chirp the pitch with an envelope. My favorite for this is Doepfer A-127 triple filter; I can set up 3 partials in the sound and each decays at a separate rate (separate resonance).

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Re: Are VCFs better for percussive sounds than VCOs?

Post by KSS » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:24 pm

Prunesquallor wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:32 am
I admit to being triggered in this case because another poster (not the one here) has recently, and pointlessly, been necroing old threads to rather obviously boost his/her post count. (I think the mods have cleaned up a lot of this.) I lost my cool here. Sorry.
I noticed that too,and believe it was hos post here that led to my reply. Now deleted by mods probably.

But as my feeling about necro-threads is opportunity rather than loss, it was a trigger for me to follow and see what he uncovered and ignore the obvious post building.

JLR used to do the same thing from time to time. Opening up old threads, or those left unanswered. Miss his input here, though he's still active on GS and MXSynth. Am strictly voyeur at GS.

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Re: Re:

Post by Phitar » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:41 pm

jorg wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:44 pm

I ping my filters with the gate, and chirp the pitch with an envelope. My favorite for this is Doepfer A-127 triple filter; I can set up 3 partials in the sound and each decays at a separate rate (separate resonance).
That sound really cool. Not familiar with the A-127. Will have to look into that one.



Edit: Just looked..... Does indeed seem nice but I don't have that kind of rack space. :eek: It has a break out module too! Double :eek: !
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Re:

Post by commodorejohn » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:14 pm

FetidEye wrote:
Sun May 24, 2015 2:04 pm
percussion is not all sine drum sounds.

use noise for more variation (a noise module or synthesize it using multiple square waves)
As long as we're reviving, this bears repeating. You can do so much more with synthesized drum sounds than just punching the listener in the eardrum with one single frequency over and over again :/
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