Understanding the Krell Patch

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Dcramer
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Post by Dcramer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:29 pm

^this is awesome ikjoyce, the OR interplay between the voices is brilliant!

And just to keep up to date in this thread, here’s my latest offering in the world of PolyKrellism:

viewtopic.php?t=202135

I won’t repost all the material here as it’s all in the thread, but I think what’s cool about it is that because I knew in advance what I intended to create, I was able to document the whole process, rehearse the patch for days, and practice it’s talking points. :party:

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:18 pm

Cheers!

If anyone else is like me and somehow missed that thread by Dcramer- go there now. The patch notes are extensive, and the you tube video is really cool, both in terms of being full of great ideas to steal, (er, I mean, great advice!) and the full on man-vs-krell performance.

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cptnal
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Post by cptnal » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:21 pm

So random and yet so musical. :tu:

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:53 pm

Had another Krell evening - this time making a bass trombone solo... with added variable slide control! :-D
Also lots of dynamics on this one.

https://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/the-drea ... mbone-solo

https://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/the-drea ... mbone-solo
Last edited by ikjoyce on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:56 am, edited 5 times in total.

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:57 pm

*edit* (Not sure what happened with the link, there is no space in the end tag when I try and edit it!)

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SmartBits
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Re: Understanding the Krell Patch

Post by SmartBits » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:17 am

fhars wrote:Image
I'm trying to get my head around the patch description and figure out if I can recreate it with my own rack. The one thing that I don't quite understand is how to simulate the skew parameter in the SRV. I understand (mostly, I think) what it's purpose is, but not how to do that without a 266e. How can a module like a regular S&H or Wogglebug be biased by CV towards lower or higher frequencies?

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cptnal
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Post by cptnal » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:35 am

From the little I know of Buchla stuff, I think Skew is a slew limiter and the higher it's set the longer it takes to reach higher frequencies, so lower ones are prevalent. Don't know how it would work to prefer higher frequencies, but I guess adding an offset to the chain would have the same effect.

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:49 pm

What cptnal said. Alternatively, you could use a VCA before going into the s&h, to adjust the range of variability. Offset for higher frequencies.

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Post by pugix » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:42 pm

cptnal wrote:So random and yet so musical. :tu:
The topology of the control structure is hierarchical with no feedback loops. The two FRV are at the top of the hierarchy, i.e. not controlled by anything. Each FRV controls two other modules in the patch. Two of those are cycling envelope generators which in turn control the envelope generator for the VCA. EOC controls the SRV to produce a new pitch for each new note. That's nice enough for good results.

Point I want to make is the 'directed graph' of control, i.e. no CV feedback paths. I'm wondering if people think this is a signature of the Krell pattern. Because adding feedback in the CV structure (which I do quite often) would make for a different result. But how different? Do you think that adding CV feedback to a Krell patch would make it something new (not so Krell-like, not so 'musical'), or just a modified Krell?

Thanks,
Richard
http://www.pugix.com

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Post by Dcramer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:19 pm

pugix wrote:
cptnal wrote:So random and yet so musical. :tu:
The topology of the control structure is hierarchical with no feedback loops. The two FRV are at the top of the hierarchy, i.e. not controlled by anything. Each FRV controls two other modules in the patch. Two of those are cycling envelope generators which in turn control the envelope generator for the VCA. EOC controls the SRV to produce a new pitch for each new note. That's nice enough for good results.

Point I want to make is the 'directed graph' of control, i.e. no CV feedback paths. I'm wondering if people think this is a signature of the Krell pattern. Because adding feedback in the CV structure (which I do quite often) would make for a different result. But how different? Do you think that adding CV feedback to a Krell patch would make it something new (not so Krell-like, not so 'musical'), or just a modified Krell?

Thanks,
Good question, in my view it would really be moving into new patch territory. Many of my Krell patches are actually cross patched with a Dream Machine (Strange) patch to push the response into wider territory.
Sometimes I’ll create ‘nested’ Krell patches wherein a much slower Krell like sub patch is used to push the faster Krell in different directions :party:

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:40 pm

Decided to clean up and collate my modular synth pieces that were made using the krell patch as their starting point, into an EP for free download.

[bandcamp width=350 height=470 album=1989789511 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false]

AKaudio
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Post by AKaudio » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:53 pm

Here's something Krell inspired

[video][/video]

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cptnal
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Post by cptnal » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:25 pm

ikjoyce wrote:Decided to clean up and collate my modular synth pieces that were made using the krell patch as their starting point, into an EP for free download.

[bandcamp width=350 height=470 album=1989789511 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false]
8-)

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:33 am

Very nicely done AKaudio
8-)

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b4
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Post by b4 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:35 am

There is a new compilation out called The Great Krell Machine, Vol. I.

https://flagdayrecordings.bandcamp.com/ ... hine-vol-i

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macs4music
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Skew of SRV

Post by macs4music » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:38 pm

So My random sources are one each of the older and newer MN Wogglebugs. How would I emulate skew on either of these? Would it be to feed a source onto the Heart/Ego-Id with attenuator full CCW but in some way filter it beforehand, and this filter control becomes the 'skew'? Please help!

Neil
Started with an Atari 1040STe, at least the timing was good....

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Post by Flareless » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:19 am

I was inspired by all the Krell talk lately to watch Forbidden Planet and to work on a self-generating Krell-style patch.

I came up with something I thought was pretty cool. Here's a recording of the patch I created and one of a piece I used it in.

https://soundcloud.com/lowerwestsidestudio/krelly-swan

https://soundcloud.com/lowerwestsidestudio/krelly

Since I figure I'll never get the patch quite the same I recorded 4 hours of it just for fun.
Rich

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Post by SmartBits » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:22 pm

Had a bit of a Krellsmas...

https://soundcloud.com/user-967192833/krellsmas
Mainly DPO, tELHARMONIC (low stuff) and GrandPa (the repeating pattern) as audio sources. MMG and AM8328 are on filterduty.
It's just 15 minutes, but near the end my two-year old woke up and wanted to join the party in pyamas... :party: :sb:

Image

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ikjoyce
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Post by ikjoyce » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:23 am

At work on a new krell patch - this one has three independent Krell engines.
I plan on extending this so that there is modulation of the modulation - so that the range of notes available to each voice, and the range of timbral change will increase/decrease over time.

http://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/the-myste ... -the-krell

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Post by cptnal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:16 am

ikjoyce wrote:At work on a new krell patch - this one has three independent Krell engines.
I plan on extending this so that there is modulation of the modulation - so that the range of notes available to each voice, and the range of timbral change will increase/decrease over time.

http://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/the-myste ... -the-krell
Sounds a splendid development of the concept. Look forward to hearing more. :tu:

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Post by ikjoyce » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:14 am

Thought I'd try somethimg a little different.

I took four separate basic Krell patches, slowed the envelopes and LFOs right down, and then took the outputs of those as being two pairs - which were passed through two ring modulators to give two voices.

Krell A + Krell B went through a ring mod and out via a panning module (controlled by the sum of four slow LFOs) to two channels on the mixer, one with loads of reverb and a high EQ cut, and the other nearly dry.
Krell C + Krell D went through a second ring mod and out to one channel of the mixer with a little reverb.

The reverb (BigSky) was set to a quite long and warped reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/psyche-scape

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Post by cptnal » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:39 am

ikjoyce wrote:Thought I'd try somethimg a little different.

I took four separate basic Krell patches, slowed the envelopes and LFOs right down, and then took the outputs of those as being two pairs - which were passed through two ring modulators to give two voices.

Krell A + Krell B went through a ring mod and out via a panning module (controlled by the sum of four slow LFOs) to two channels on the mixer, one with loads of reverb and a high EQ cut, and the other nearly dry.
Krell C + Krell D went through a second ring mod and out to one channel of the mixer with a little reverb.

The reverb (BigSky) was set to a quite long and warped reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/psyche-scape
Played it twice in a row. :yay:

Very interested in this taking something familiar and pushing it into new territory.

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Post by tardishead » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:19 am

Thought I'd try somethimg a little different.
I really enjoyed both of these last 2 patches/
Great atmosphere and harmonics really breathe
Inspiring

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Post by boxxgrooved » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:46 pm

I've been studying the wealth of knowledge of ideas surrounding this humble patch. This community is a great source of inspiration and Dcramer's contribution towards this end is monumental.

I am interested to know if any people are using quantizers with trigger outs to fire the main function generator? i.e, instead of having the function generator self-cycle, it gets re-triggered by the quantizer. I'm just thinking the timing between a new note and the envelope re-triggering might be better, although tbh I haven't noticed a problem in most slowly evolving patches but maybe with faster stuff their could be a noticeable delay with previous note data getting caught in the new trigger.

Also in Dcramer's patch he created for the live piece I noticed he was using a Doepfer S/H to periodically sample notes from the main melody. Did he notice any voltage droop from the doepfer because I've read a few posts on this forum saying its not reliable for pitch tracking? Apparently the MI Kinks module has a great s/h for this purpose with Oliver saying that the droop is within 2 mv only.

It really amazed me what Dcramer achieved in just 6U of mantis case. It got me inspired to fill a spare 88HP case I have with the goal of achieving 2 separate voices. Limitations really are the MOTHER of all creativity!

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Post by cptnal » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:22 pm

Transcription errors...

Taking ikjoyce's idea of ring modulators and coming up with something completely different...

Two independent Krells (just sine waves: Dixie & STO). Each going to a ring mod's input (with a bit of delay clocked to the OR of the Krells' EOCs) for the third voice. The fourth voice is STO's sub output s-gated by the square from the Dixie. Two versions.

https://freesound.org/people/cptnal/sounds/457533/

https://freesound.org/people/cptnal/sounds/457623/

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