Like in jazz, do we have music standards in modular?

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

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Dadaisme
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Like in jazz, do we have music standards in modular?

Post by Dadaisme » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:26 pm

Hi!

Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?


Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.



Thx



NOTE : I am not refering to manifacturing standards, I am talking about music!!
Last edited by Dadaisme on Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by widgetoz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:55 pm

Dadaisme wrote:Hi!

Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?


Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.



Thx
Currently no official standard. Doepfer with his A100 has always been the goto point but many manufacturers ignore that. there is supposed to be a group called RedStripe Down setting standards.
We at ELBY Designs have defined a EuroSynth Specification which is on our website and it defines many of the points for a universal 3U modular.
BTW: There will NEVER be a STANDARD, it will only ever be a SPECIFICATION. Nobody is going to take the time and effort to define and maintain a standard that will require products/manufacturers be vetted and held accountable for non-compliance. A SPECIFICATION is a set of guides that a manufacturer/product says they have followed. It would have to be self-assessed

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by Roy72 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:01 pm

widgetoz wrote:
Dadaisme wrote:Hi!

Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?


Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.



Thx
Currently no official standard. Doepfer with his A100 has always been the goto point but many manufacturers ignore that. there is supposed to be a group called RedStripe Down setting standards.
We at ELBY Designs have defined a EuroSynth Specification which is on our website and it defines many of the points for a universal 3U modular.
BTW: There will NEVER be a STANDARD, it will only ever be a SPECIFICATION. Nobody is going to take the time and effort to define and maintain a standard that will require products/manufacturers be vetted and held accountable for non-compliance. A SPECIFICATION is a set of guides that a manufacturer/product says they have followed. It would have to be self-assessed
Somebody poked a bear inadvertently.

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I am not refering to manifacturing standards!!!!!

Post by Dadaisme » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:09 pm

Important : I am not refering to manifacturing standards, I am talking about standard in music!!


So, here again : Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?

Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.


Thx

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Trebbers
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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by Trebbers » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:12 pm

Dadaisme wrote:Hi!

Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?


Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.



Thx
This thread viewtopic.php?t=122387 going through exercises from the Allan Strange book might be of interest.

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by imxtristan » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:14 pm

widgetoz wrote:
Dadaisme wrote:Hi!

Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?


Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.



Thx
Currently no official standard. Doepfer with his A100 has always been the goto point but many manufacturers ignore that. there is supposed to be a group called RedStripe Down setting standards.
We at ELBY Designs have defined a EuroSynth Specification which is on our website and it defines many of the points for a universal 3U modular.
BTW: There will NEVER be a STANDARD, it will only ever be a SPECIFICATION. Nobody is going to take the time and effort to define and maintain a standard that will require products/manufacturers be vetted and held accountable for non-compliance. A SPECIFICATION is a set of guides that a manufacturer/product says they have followed. It would have to be self-assessed
I'm thinking the OP meant standards in relation to music composition - ie. Jazz Standards- not technical specifications of the synthesizer circuits... at least that how I read it.

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by Dadaisme » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:16 pm

imxtristan wrote:I'm thinking the OP meant standards in relation to music composition - ie. Jazz Standards- not technical specifications of the synthesizer circuits... at least that how I read it.
Yes! : )

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by widgetoz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:19 pm

Dadaisme wrote:
imxtristan wrote:I'm thinking the OP meant standards in relation to music composition - ie. Jazz Standards- not technical specifications of the synthesizer circuits... at least that how I read it.
Yes! : )
I stand in the corner with a pointy hat - sulking :(

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luketeaford
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Post by luketeaford » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:20 pm

I think the closest thing is exploring patching techniques and perhaps the most well known of those are "the basic patch" (vco => filter => vca) and krell.

Hmm what else? Subharmonic arpeggios? The bouncing ball? Cicadas/bubbles?

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Shakespeare
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Post by Shakespeare » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:24 pm

I love the question. But I also think it's an apples and oranges kind of thing. Jazz is a style and tradition of music, while a modular is an instrument.

A similar question, I guess, might be "are there any standards for modular, like there are for pianists" (shifting the emphasis to the instrument). As far as I know, the answer is No, or maybe Not Yet. There aren't any songs where, if you go to a modular meet-up, or an industrial bar, everyone will know the tune instantly, and the old-timers in the room will either applaud or boo based on your interpretation. (Break into "My Funny Valentine" in a piano bar, though...)

That said... wouldn't it be cool if there were such pieces?

Futuresound

Post by Futuresound » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:29 pm

everybody seems to like making very unrealistic bongos, although I'm not sure I've ever heard a good use for them other to say your module can do it.
Last edited by Futuresound on Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ras Thavas » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:29 pm

Great question.

First thing that came to mind was a LFO saw wave into a sample and hold, pitch output controlling oscillator frequency and clock gating envelopes and VCA.

It's available on many synthesizers, and has a little more playability than the typical noise into S & H. Musical patterns arise at the interference frequencies of the clock and saw wave.

It's a "stock" sound that makes people think of modular, just like hearing a standard on the piano makes people think of jazz...

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Post by chaosick » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:41 pm

Futuresound wrote:everybody seems to like making very unrealistic bongos, although I'm not sure I've ever heard a good use for them other to say your module can do it.
LOL! Well said.

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Post by Joe. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:42 pm

Dont mention Bongos, or the guys from the Buchla, EMS & Serge subforum will flood the thread.

EDIT: oh no! it's too late! :ripbanana:

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have music standards in modular?

Post by chaosick » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:49 pm

Dadaisme wrote:Hi!

Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Standard ideas perhaps, like the "Krell muzak patch"?


Looking for other patch like the Krell or other "standards" to try on my modular.



Thx



NOTE : I am not refering to manifacturing standards, I am talking about music!!
Speaking as someone who has played and is strongly influenced by jazz and has been playing guitar for years before I knew what a "modular synthesizer" was, it's an intriguing but also sort of weird question. As at least one person has pointed out, this is sort of like asking what the standards are for a particular instrument vs a genre or style of music.
I *do* think that I see the "jazz" label apportioned onto many modular synth/eurorack performances, etc. inappropriately (or strangely)--it seems to reflect an misunderstanding as to what jazz is, the history and huge diversity of it, for start--thinking that any type of improvisation, no matter how unstructured = jazz, which would make most of the jazz great (aside from the free school) roll in their graves or shake their heads..but I don't think that's really what your question is about in the first place.
I think Suzanne Ciani has probably said it best in various interviews and Q&As, especially as another person who was performing on her acoustic instrument (piano) before and in parallel to synths--essentially that it is a family of instruments, it has its own advantages and unique characteristics (particularly with regard to morphing sound qualities and control, as she has once said, "I don't care about tone") that distinguish it from any instrument that relies strictly on the real, physical, acoustic world to operate, and that therein lie its strengths; attempting to use synths (*especially* modular) to replicate any existing instrument in terms of tones or mechanisms of playing is I think, always going to lag behind what acoustic instruments have been doing so well for thousands of years, and misses the point a bit, hence the power of sequencers, multi voices, clocking, etc..for me personally, it performs the functions of a band or an orchestra, in its own way, as Vangelis already pointed out 30+ years ago:
[video][/video]

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Post by Hovercraft » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:43 pm

Play it once, Sam.
For old times' sake.

I don't know what you mean, Miss Ilsa.

Play it, Sam.
Play Rings into Clouds.

I can't remember how to patch it, Miss Ilsa.
I'm a little rusty on it.

I'll hum it for you.
Bwang Bwang Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsssh Bwang Foooooooooooooosh

Sam, I thought I told you never to play Rings into Clouds…

Hello, Ilsa.

Hello, Rick.

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Post by mritenburg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:51 pm

There are well-documented modular "standards" if you prefer to call them that. The Arp 2600 users manual (which can be found online) is an excellent entry point in to the fundamentals everyone should understand (sort of like the basics of harmony in jazz).

Once you master the basics, you can start to employ some of the more interesting methods of synthesis (sort of like mastering basic improvisation). I suggest checking out this online book about all of the simple and advanced modular synthesis techniques: https://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmo ... k_toc.html

It's written for the Nord Modular, but can be applied to any modular synth with the requisite modules.
Last edited by mritenburg on Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hidden_Path » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:52 pm

Hovercraft wrote:Play it once, Sam.
For old times' sake.

I don't know what you mean, Miss Ilsa.

Play it, Sam.
Play Rings into Clouds.

I can't remember how to patch it, Miss Ilsa.
I'm a little rusty on it.

I'll hum it for you.
Bwang Bwang Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsssh Bwang Foooooooooooooosh

Sam, I thought I told you never to play Rings into Clouds…

Hello, Ilsa.

Hello, Rick.
Ha, I lol’ed

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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by Dark Barn » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:24 pm

widgetoz wrote:
Dadaisme wrote:
imxtristan wrote:I'm thinking the OP meant standards in relation to music composition - ie. Jazz Standards- not technical specifications of the synthesizer circuits... at least that how I read it.
Yes! : )
I stand in the corner with a pointy hat - sulking :(
Still, I enjoyed reading your response.
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Re: Like in jazz, do we have standards in modular?

Post by widgetoz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:32 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
widgetoz wrote:
Dadaisme wrote:
imxtristan wrote:I'm thinking the OP meant standards in relation to music composition - ie. Jazz Standards- not technical specifications of the synthesizer circuits... at least that how I read it.
Yes! : )
I stand in the corner with a pointy hat - sulking :(
Still, I enjoyed reading your response.
That's what happens when an 'engineer' jumps in on a 'musician' question :hihi:

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Post by bkbirge » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:33 pm

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that disting.

Also, look up the old Roland Synthesizer volumes 1-3 about as close to a series of etudes for modular as you'll find.

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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


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Post by mskala » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:04 pm

The old "quantized sample and hold into the pitch CV" is kind of a standard. It's hard to name a song or tune as a standard the way jazz standards work, because people tend not to exactly play preplanned songs or tunes on their modular synths.

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Post by pines » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:14 pm

I’m going to nominate “Silver Apples of the Moon” as a modular standard.... Maybe “The Wild Bull” and “Trageodia” as well. The Strange book is probably the Fake Book of modular....

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Post by starthief » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:47 pm

Jazz "standards" are tunes that a lot of people learn how to play some variation of.

Maybe the closest thing we have in the synth world is often-imitated pieces, like the Blade Runner and Stranger Things soundtracks, Oxygene, the "Lucky Man" solo, etc. And I'm not sure that really quite counts either.

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Post by ignatius » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:52 pm

probably just boring stuff with rings

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