How can u tell if a board is analog?

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zoogoo
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How can u tell if a board is analog?

Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:34 pm

I've been building my case and im trying to avoid digital., got fooled a few times. Since they do not describe there products I have to look up pictures of everything to see the board. Some of them are obvious and are analog, you can see all the diodes and circular resistors. But then some of them are factory manufactured and it kind of looks like transistor packs. How can you tell which Euro rack is analog or not?

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Re: How can u tell if a board is analog?

Post by gonkulator » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:36 pm

zoogoo wrote:I've been building my case and im trying to avoid digital., got fooled a few times. Since they do not describe there products I have to look up pictures of everything to see the board. Some of them are obvious and are analog, you can see all the diodes and circular resistors. But then some of them are factory manufactured and it kind of looks like transistor packs. How can you tell which Euro rack is analog or not?
I am curious why you want to know that. Aside from that I can't contribute to this..
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Chopper
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Post by Chopper » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:40 pm

Can you hear the difference between an analogue env/lfo and a digital one? Oh, and what is wrong with transistors????

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:43 pm

Chopper wrote:Can you hear the difference between an analogue env/lfo and a digital one? Oh, and what is wrong with transistors????
I absolutely can tell the difference. I love transistors,my computer and midi controllers are filled with them.

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Post by Godphaser » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:46 pm

I can tell what I like and what I don't.

Most important skill ever.

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zoogoo
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Re: How can u tell if a board is analog?

Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:46 pm

gonkulator wrote:
zoogoo wrote:I've been building my case and im trying to avoid digital., got fooled a few times. Since they do not describe there products I have to look up pictures of everything to see the board. Some of them are obvious and are analog, you can see all the diodes and circular resistors. But then some of them are factory manufactured and it kind of looks like transistor packs. How can you tell which Euro rack is analog or not?
I am curious why you want to know that. Aside from that I can't contribute to this..
the question should be why wouldn't you want to know, you paid for it. These things aren't cheap,even for the sake of knowledge your not curious? I want to build an all analog system.

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:51 pm

Godphaser wrote:I can tell what I like and what I don't.

Most important skill ever.
that's like eating food and judging it by how it tastes instead of knowing what it is. I'm glad u like ur rat burgers. I on the other hand am curious and would like to know since I have poor google searching skills.

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Chopper
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Post by Chopper » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:51 pm

Zoogoo, considering your previous thread on the subject, your answers on this one, and the fact that you clearly have no understanding of transistors, i can safely say, with no bad intentions, that you really do not know what you are talking about. Many here tried to help you in your quest, but you seem to be refusing to face a bit of reality check...

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Godphaser
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Post by Godphaser » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:55 pm

that's like eating food and judging it by how it tastes instead of knowing what it is. I'm glad u like ur rat burgers. I on the other hand am curious and would like to know since I have poor google searching skills.
McD doesn't taste like decent meat.

But if rat meat tastes like wagyu, why not?

Would you buy caviar if you cannot differentiate its taste from lump eggs?

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Post by mgscheue » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:06 pm

I’m not trying to be unkind, but if you’re not sure what digital and analog are, why does it make a difference to you?

Transistors are used in both digital and analog circuits. You probably wouldn’t have much of an electronic sound-making device of any sort without them.

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Post by Shledge » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:13 pm

Zoogoo: master of talking from one's arse.

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:14 pm

mgscheue wrote:I’m not trying to be unkind, but if you’re not sure what digital and analog are, why does it make a difference to you?
I know the difference when im controlling and listening. but i cant tell when im buying something that ive never seen or heard. Youtube vids dont count,my computer is digital.

is it a crime to want to know some basic information without getting harped on? what difference why i want to know something, this is a forum, im here to learn.

guess ill ask gearslutz or kvr or something.


thanks anyways.

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:16 pm

Shledge wrote:Zoogoo: master of talking from one's arse.


thats funny coming from you, you gave me false information about a module.

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:17 pm

Godphaser wrote:
that's like eating food and judging it by how it tastes instead of knowing what it is. I'm glad u like ur rat burgers. I on the other hand am curious and would like to know since I have poor google searching skills.
McD doesn't taste like decent meat.

But if rat meat tastes like wagyu, why not?

Would you buy caviar if you cannot differentiate its taste from lump eggs?
because i care about what i put into my body

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Shledge
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Post by Shledge » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:17 pm

...what? When have I gave "false information"?
Last edited by Shledge on Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:18 pm

WAT
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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:19 pm

Shledge wrote:...what? When have I gave "false information"?
you said the wogglebug was analog, but the vco's are digital components. I almost bought another digital module because of you. hence the full meaning of "talking out of ones arse".

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Post by Shledge » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:21 pm

I said it was :banana:

I was taking the piss

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:22 pm

Shledge wrote:I said it was :banana:

I was taking the piss
your stupid

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Post by sasbom » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:25 pm

fyi unrelated, but if you really want a more analogue sound, you
might want to look into getting some nice tube amps and going full
blast.

on topic tho,

Most euro manufacturers are pretty responsive (Cwejman isn't but yeah Cwej will never change)

I think personally you should really be asking for a all analog signal path. There might be some transistors here and there, and even some chips for all I care. Most chips are just downsized analog circuits, which shouldn't affect your sound in any way.
Transistors are not digital either, mosts electrical components aren't.

In any way it's not directly visible wether a module might be something you would call analog. If you could clearly define what analog means to you, and then mail to manufacturers about you might get some answers with some patience.

Or, you could go the kit route, and search for what's included in the kit.
All chips and electrical components have imprints and serial numbers, and you can research on a part-level what is analog and what isn't before you buy.

Like being a vegan, it takes a bit of work to go your route, but if that makes your life worth living, that's up to you!
Happy hunting!
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Post by Shledge » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:28 pm

zoogoo wrote:
Shledge wrote:I said it was :banana:

I was taking the piss
your stupid
I'll be blunt here - the only stupid person here is you. You're a complete and utter gobshite.

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acgenerator
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Post by acgenerator » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:29 pm

a few rules to help:
1) in general, manufacturers will say if their VCOs are analog. it's a selling point
2) some manufacturers are completely analogue (NLC) or will generally state their exceptions. Some are mixed. Others will almost always be digital. It's a brand by brand thing.
3) things with memory (such as wavetables, samples, speech chips, programs) or MIDI will be digital
4) ask the manufacturer. Most will reply.
5) look at the chips:
-> anything with a microcontroller (Atmega, Arduino) is digital or at least digitally controlled
-> most manufacturers use common op amps and logic chips (4000, 7400 series) you can look these up easily

If you had a short-list of modules you are considering then listing them will helpful.

---- as an aside
I recommend adopting a more moderate "analog where/if I can" approach.

Some points to consider:
A) You will miss out on some key advantages / features of Eurorack over other synthesizers (even other modular) by excluding digital completely. You can probably get by with say 10% digital or less. Some things need digital. Clock dividers, Logic, S&H, digital noise for drums, PLLs, Quantizers come to mind. You can still have a completely analog audio path and incorporate these digital things.

B) The advantages to analog is no longer in the sound quality, it's in the ability to use unconventionally, mod the gear, service it when digital parts are no longer available.

There was a audible differences in the 70s, 80s, maybe most of the 90s but it isn't the case anymore more. (basically since the adoption of DVDs). Keep in mind if you are recording on anything but vinyl you are going to have a digital product in the end. What matters is whether the sample rate isn't less than your recorded media (DAW, CD, etc) and if the range of sounds represented exceeds that of human hearing. Think of it as how you watch movies... if the framerate is faster than you can detect, it seems like constant motion.
Last edited by acgenerator on Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by alanza » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:33 pm

imo the best way forward is to learn enough to build your own, if you care. that way you could go fully discrete analog if you felt like it. then you'd REALLY know what you were putting in your synthesizer.

hell, maybe you'd learn enough electronics to stop distrusting digital circuits :miley:
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Post by zoogoo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:47 pm

acgenerator wrote:a few rules to help:
1) in general, manufacturers will say if their VCOs are analog. it's a selling point
2) some manufacturers are completely analogue (NLC) or will generally state their exceptions. Others will almost always be digital.
3) things with memory (such as wavetables, samples, speech chips, programs) or MIDI will be digital
4) ask the manufacturer. Most will reply.
5) look at the chips:
-> anything with a microcontroller (Atmega, Arduino) is digital or at least digitally controlled
-> most manufacturers use common op amps and logic chips (4000, 7400 series) you can look these up easily

If you had a short-list of modules you are considering then listing them will help.

---- as an aside
I recommend adopting a more moderate "analog where/if I can" approach.

Some points to consider:
A) You will miss out on some key advantages / features of Eurorack over other synthesizers (even other modular) by excluding digital completely. You can probably get by with say 10% digital or less. Some things need digital. Clock dividers, Logic, S&H, digital noise for drums, PLLs, Quantizers come to mind. You can still have a completely analog audio path and incorporate these digital things.

B) The advantages to analog is no longer in the sound quality, it's in the ability to use unconventionally, mod the gear, service it when digital parts are no longer available.

There was a audible differences in the 70s, 80s, maybe most of the 90s but it isn't the case anymore more. (basically since the adoption of DVDs). Keep in mind if you are recording on anything but vinyl you are going to have a digital product in the end. What matters is whether the sample rate isn't less than your recorded media (DAW, CD, etc) and if the range of sounds represented exceeds that of human hearing. Think of it as how you watch movies... if the framerate is faster than you can detect, it seems like constant motion.
thank you for that information, but most of what you said i kind of all ready know. A lot of these modules are kind of hidden information and like you said i will have to try to contact them directly to know.
I was hoping there was a quick way of finding out just by looking at the board, but i cant tell what to look for, as many of the big manufactures of these devices is unclear or hidden, even if it did have those chips you described.

I understand that digital does sound as good, or even better in some cases. My interests are in the interaction with my machine and the subtle differences i can feel in the workflow of my sound.

what key features will i be missing out if im using a computer along side my system? Thats a question ive yet to hear a good answer too. I dont want to argue the why, i just wanted the information to get what i need.

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Post by Multi Grooves » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:51 pm

Shledge wrote:
zoogoo wrote:
Shledge wrote:I said it was :banana:

I was taking the piss
your stupid
I'll be blunt here - the only stupid person here is you. You're a complete and utter gobshite.
U a scouser?
...but Cynthia, my Daddy never had a heath kit..

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