CV/Clock to Midi clock?

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rhythminmind
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CV/Clock to Midi clock?

Post by rhythminmind » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:52 am

What are the Software/Hardware options?
I want to use my analog clock to control/lock midi clock devices. (x0xBox, flame clockworks, mfb 522, ect.
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baltimoroder
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Post by baltimoroder » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:51 am

Innerclock Sync Step is the current state-of-the-art.
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rastko
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Post by rastko » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:07 am

greetings .

analogue systems rs 300 module does that and much more.

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/

Innerclock Sync Lock can be used as well but it is not what it is supposed to do :-).

hope this helps

r

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rhythminmind
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Post by rhythminmind » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:48 pm

Thanks for the replies.
Can the "Innerclock Sync Lock" Lock a clock pulse. Is this what the plugin generator is creating?
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rastko
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Post by rastko » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:55 pm

rhythminmind wrote:Thanks for the replies.
Can the "Innerclock Sync Lock" Lock a clock pulse. Is this what the plugin generator is creating?
Yes the plugin sends pulses to an audio out and then these are converted to midiclock by the synclock hardware .

The plug in is interesting for the shifts you can create with it ..grooves.

I have tryed to feed the synclock with an pulse fromthe modular and to convert that to midi clock and it worked but I did not use it a lot like that .

R

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Post by rhythminmind » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:31 am

I should of thought of the DJ world earlier for a solution.
SoundBITE Micro or KAOSS pad will do the trick.
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rastko
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Post by rastko » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:13 am

rhythminmind wrote:I should of thought of the DJ world earlier for a solution.
SoundBITE Micro or KAOSS pad will do the trick.
Clever :-) please post when you have tryedso we know if it works and how well.

Have a nice day

Rastko

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Post by kindredlost » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:07 am

If you're in the MU world there is a nice Moon Modular tool.

The 552 is a c/v to midi converter. It will translate gates and control voltages into midi data. Has four cv & gate inputs which are selectable functions, and a selection of midi channels out. Even provides for transpose.

http://lunar-experience.com/DOWN/552.pdf

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rhythminmind
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Post by rhythminmind » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:32 am

Really nice kit but I don't think it outputs midi clock.
I'm going to pick up a KAOSS pad today to see how well it tracks. Worst case scenario I'll have to use it as intended & feed it an the actual the audio from the synth itself. But I see no reason why it wouldn't lock onto clock pulse spikes. & I'll get a crazy FX box out of the deal as well.
I'll post the results.
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baltimoroder
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Post by baltimoroder » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:44 pm

rastko wrote:I have tryed to feed the synclock with an pulse fromthe modular and to convert that to midi clock and it worked but I did not use it a lot like that .
Any particular reason? :despair:

I suggested the Sync Shift b/c a) I want one myself and b) I assume a stream of pulses is the essentially the same if it comes from a DAW or an analog clock.
rhythminimind wrote:I'll post the results.
I'm interested.
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Post by rastko » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:34 am

@baltimoroder

Well I did not have anything with midi in my setup.:-)

Now I do have the flame clockwork and indeed I have used it yesterday with synclock sending midi clock to it and it works really good .
Maybe now i keep the synclock as it is nicer to have the temo control and for me tempo changes from the modular.

The flame reactes well but it gets lost on extreem speeds. Thats ok.

The synclock read the tempo at half . So if the pulse was 120 the synclock read it as 60 bpm . Dont know yet why but that is not an problem either.

On the other side it was nice and stable and works well and fast with huge tempo jumps.

Have a nice day

Rastko

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:55 am

rhythminmind wrote:Really nice kit but I don't think it outputs midi clock.
That is correct. :waah: The 552 works like (is) a quantizer and the gate inputs only tell the unit when to sample the CV input.

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Post by kindredlost » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:42 am

Thanks for the clarification John. I wouldn't ever need a 552 myself (I don't think). I do things the other way around for the most part. I use midi to time the sequencers instead of asking the sequencers to time midi.

I do have the Q171 & Q172 quantizers but I haven[t used them for clock sourcing. Essentially the same as the 552 in some ways.

In a closed system (no outside computer driving clocks etc.) the use of hardware to drive synths and drum machines that are not part of the modular rig is pretty rare, but cool. 8_)

I think this was one of the reasons STG created the Time Buffer and related sequencer modules. So people with dinsync (sync24) drum machines and early synths could access their modulars in a sequential way without extraneous units in between.

Still, it's backwards to the method chosen here. I did consider the Synclock hardware after I got the STG sequencer. I don't use sync24 so I had to find a viable alternative to an outside drum machine or Mobius etc.. I am expecting a Moon 553 Midi to Clock module to arrive tomorrow. This will help. The problem with my clock control for the STG modules is the start time. It's hard to get them started exactly the same time as the Q960 and Q119. Using midi to send a start signal and clock will help (I hope).

Great topic.

-David

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Post by rhythminmind » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:54 am

Well I checked my 3 local music stores yesterday everyone was out of stock. Going to order online.

BUT I have successfully created a Bidule patch that is working well. I'm fine tuning it at the very moment.
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Post by kindredlost » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:58 am

rhythminmind wrote:Really nice kit but I don't think it outputs midi clock.
I'm going to pick up a KAOSS pad today to see how well it tracks. Worst case scenario I'll have to use it as intended & feed it an the actual the audio from the synth itself. But I see no reason why it wouldn't lock onto clock pulse spikes. & I'll get a crazy FX box out of the deal as well.
I'll post the results.
Keep us posted on this. I've been using the KP3 pad since it came out. It's a great fuckupinizer. :cloud:

But I haven't tried to use it to grab audio & convert to midi clock. Is that what you intend to do with it? I use it sometimes to grab loops from the modular and stack them up. Fun for that. Sort of a post processing of sequencer loops and such.

-David

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Post by rhythminmind » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:01 am

Yes that it exactly what I want to use it for.
My Bidule patch is working well in the meantime but I hate having to use a computer.
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JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:36 pm

kindredlost wrote: I am expecting a Moon 553 Midi to Clock module to arrive tomorrow. This will help. The problem with my clock control for the STG modules is the start time. It's hard to get them started exactly the same time as the Q960 and Q119. Using midi to send a start signal and clock will help (I hope).
It will! :tu: It is very nice to hit "Play" on a MIDI sequencer or drum machine and have your analog step sequencers start up in perfect sync! :nana: :love:

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Post by rhythminmind » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:27 am

Ok so the KAOSS Pad KP3 is worth it's weight in gold & I haven't even used it as it was intended yet.
So as you know I was looking for a CV clock pulse to Miidi Clock converter. It works better then expected.
The K3p auto detects the BPM & sends out midi clock. I also set it up as a midi start/stop transport. That ability alone should not be underestimated.

For a test I pulled up some random patches. Used my Grendel Drone Commander as cv clock master into the K3P.
The K3P feeds into my motu midi interface.
midi interface into
MFB 522
X0Xb0X
Prophet 08
Flame Clockwork into Oberkorn controlling MOOG Voyager.
I let it run for a few minutes to see if the auto bmp would self adjust. It did. I fade the vol in & out of the synths via there knobs.
It locked on tight :guinness:

This is the audio from the test. Horrible cheese but thats chaos patch theory for ya.
http://soundcloud.com/rhythm-in-mind/ka ... um/s-GnlNe

KAOSS Pad highly recommended.
Last edited by rhythminmind on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by justin3am » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:42 am

Yeah, the KP3 is a ridiculously powerful tool. I love how you can move the sync position with the shift+tap tempo. And the phrase sampling!

I thought the midi controller functionality was worth the price of admission but there are just so many more cool things that it can do.
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Post by robotfunk » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:29 am

is the MIDI clock stable?
I ask because I've used a Red Sound Beat Extractor in the past, (on straight beats) and the MIDI clock it spat out was constantly rushing or dragging, never a nice steady tempo.

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Post by rv0 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:12 am

A Roland TR-707 converts dinsync to midi.
x0xlarge cpu mod for x0xb0x and more: http://www.rv0.be

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Post by kindredlost » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:30 pm

rhythminmind wrote:Ok so the KAOSS Pad KP3 is worth it's weight in gold & I haven't even used it as it was intended yet.
So as you know I was looking for a CV clock pulse to Miidi Clock converter. It works better then expected.
The K3p auto detects the BPM & sends out midi clock. I also set it up as a midi start/stop transport. That ability alone should not be underestimated.

For a test I pulled up some random patches. Used my Grendel Drone Commander as cv clock master into the K3P.
The K3P feeds into my motu midi interface.
midi interface into
MFB 522
X0Xb0X
Prophet 08
Flame Clockwork into Oberkorn controlling MOOG Voyager.
I let it run for a few minutes to see if the auto bmp would self adjust. It did. I fade the vol in & out of the synths via there knobs.
It locked on tight :guinness:

This is the audio from the test. Horrible cheese but thats chaos patch theory for ya.
http://soundcloud.com/rhythm-in-mind/ka ... -com-forum

KAOSS Pad highly recommended.
This is very exciting!

Thank you for posting this info.

So I am understanding that you used the KP3 MIDI out as a midi clock source for everything.
The KP3 detected and locked-on to the incoming audio peak timing from a "control voltage pulse"?
How was the pulse sent? As an audio from an oscillator, or as a plain-ol' +5v spike into the KP3 audio input?
How do you "set up the start/stop midi transport" control?

I've had a KP3 since it first came out and I only use it as an FX processor and looper. I guess I've been missing out.

-David

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Post by rhythminmind » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:01 pm

Yes your correct. I use the KP3 to generate midi clock from a +5 clock pulse via the 1/4 mic/line input on the KP3.

I found these instructions online for the transport mapping
BPM and MIDI Clock Sync

I hope this may help a few people with their midi problems.

Here's the best way I've found of synching the kp3 analogue input into Ableton Live (any other DAW should work the same):

Connect the KP3 up to the computer and open up the KP3 editor.

Under the Ext. Ctrl section:
select a button and change it's Assign Type to START.
Change another one to STOP (you can also set one for CONTINUE if you want
(EXTRA TIP: you can change the assign type of the touch pad here - i.e pattern 4 gives 8 midi assignable finger faders - nice! Very Happy ))

What this does is give you transport controls which will stop/restart the KP3 midi clock back at 1.0.0 and send start and stop signals to Live.

transmit these values back to the kp3 (hit receive all first so you don't overwrite any samples or whatever) and close the KP3 Editor

then open your Live set and check you have sync and remote turned on for the input of the kp3 midi driver (in xp shows up as usb audio device)

The green led next to EXT should now be flashing in time with the kp3 midi clock.

Turn on EXT.


Now back to the kaos pad:

if you switch to ext ctrl mode on the kp3 SHIFT+8 then press the button you assigned to START the kp3 midi clock will restart and Live will start together at whatever tempo the kp3 is set to and STOP when you press stop.

press the SHIFT button to switch back to normal kp3 mode

Send audio signal from your decks into the kp3 and press the AUTO BPM button. TAP along in time with it until it settles on the right BPM.
*The Kaos Pad rounds the BPM to the nearest whole number so adjust the decks to a whole number BPM. The display may drift .1 either side of it but the midi clock should be generating a steady bpm.

hit Shift+8 again to be back in Ext Ctrl mode and hit START on the beat you want to bring Live in on.
Everything should now be in good snyc, including all your kp3 effects.
If the kp3 starts to drift return to normal mode (SHIFT) and press the ALIGN button (SHIFT+TAP) at the start of each beat i.e on the green flash of the bpm light GREEN-RED-RED-RED

It's not pefect and sometimes it takes a few goes and the Auto BPM can still go haywire when you change the speed of the record but if you've got a steady bpm you can turn off auto bpm (push down the prog button and set it to the bpm manually).
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Post by thekernel » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:51 am

The Innerclock systems 'Sync-Lock' is fantastic, and in my experience, works best with ableton. (There's also a software update promised for the end of 2010 if anyone is interested).
rv0 wrote:A Roland TR-707 converts dinsync to midi.
I know it doesn't convert MIDI clock to SYNC 24, will it really convert DIN SYNC 24 to MIDI clock?

I know that it locks to either MIDI clock or Sync 24 depending on the user settings,
(It's also worth noting that software version 1.0 707's do not reset to the start of the bar when being driven by by SYNC 24) but I'm fairly certain that the TR-707 will only generate MIDI beat clock and DIN SYNC when it's the master unit or slaved to FSK tape sync.

(The Roland MSQ-100, MSQ-700, SBX-80 and Korg KMS-30 definitely lock to and convert both formats however).

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Post by thekernel » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:13 pm

thekernel wrote:
(The Roland MSQ-100, MSQ-700, SBX-80 and Korg KMS-30 definitely lock to and convert both formats however).
Oops, SBX-80 has two SYNC 24 connectors, but they're both outputs...

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