What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
deftinwulf
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:34 am

What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by deftinwulf » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:32 am

Hi everyone,

This is an "open poll" of sorts. I got to thinking about good old-fashioned multiples. A classic and necessary utility for modular synthesis.

Buffered multiples were the natural progression from the passive multiple. Attenu-inverting multiples, things like Lowgain Electronics' CVP-1 which has two 1->3 mult channels each with bipolar attenuation/attenu-inversion, could be seen as an evolution of the basic Mult design which has only in/out jacks.

What's the next evolution of this utility, do you think? Are there any "non-standard"/novel features you've thought you'd like to have in a Multiple that are missing currently? What features or changes would make a standard buffered multiple more than the sum of its parts?

Just a bit of a thought experiment I'd appreciate Muff's input on... All ideas welcome. :cloud:

User avatar
dooj88
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1318
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by dooj88 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:16 am

i use buffmults almost exclusively for pitch cv, so an evolution i'd like to see would be something a bit more interactive/performative.

it would be nice to have routing options for mixing.. so 2 separate cv inputs with an or/mix switch would be fun. we're moving away from mults at this point, but having precision adder functionality with the ability to route a +1v and an offset would be fun to play with.

User avatar
deftinwulf
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:34 am

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by deftinwulf » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:47 pm

dooj88 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:16 am
i use buffmults almost exclusively for pitch cv, so an evolution i'd like to see would be something a bit more interactive/performative.

it would be nice to have routing options for mixing.. so 2 separate cv inputs with an or/mix switch would be fun. we're moving away from mults at this point, but having precision adder functionality with the ability to route a +1v and an offset would be fun to play with.
Ah, yes - good point - Buffered Mults are mainly necessary for pitch CV due to its sensitivity to voltage drop. So I really like your idea - a mult that can Or/mix from separate inputs and then mult from there. Maybe some kind of fun push-buttony interface to make it playable?

The CVP-1 I mentioned can act as 5V offset from its outs... To piggyback on your +1v precision adder idea, what if those pots on the CVP-1 were stepped/detented rather than smooth, with precise +1V per step/detent? If each side went to -4V / +4v, that would give you a 9-octave selectable range per mult output. The module might look something like a mashup between the CVP-1 and a ALM Beast's Chalkboard, but with 2 cv inputs per mult channel, and switches or pushbuttons as per your idea above...

Now, let's make it quad, just because we can. :mrgreen: 4 input channels, each with 2x CV inputs. :sb:

What do you think?

User avatar
hamildad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:46 am
Location: London

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by hamildad » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:10 pm

I use the Club of the Knobs buffered multiple that also has 2x Attenuators (VCAs)

COTK C995CV

So I can mult pitch CV and have either 2x attenuators, or 2x VCAs for other fun stuff.

its a nice module when I wouldnt really want a single panel just for buffered mults, but think that 2x buffered mults is overkill. as mostly I mult out triggers rather than CV.

I also used to use the STG .BAM which had a single attenuator which was wired to a buffered mult so both could be independent or used as an attenuation > mult combo.
My Synth Instagram here * My Synth videos here
-
External PSUs and DC jacks are the hallmarks of toys. - Graham Hinton.
-
I am one of the "tiny fraction of a percentage of oversensitive idiots" who feels the name of this site sends the wrong message.
-
This is primarily for melody and historical educational purposes - Analogue Music

Thorsday
Common Wiggler
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:22 am

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by Thorsday » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:10 am

A larger buffered version of Doepfer A-182-1 in Synthesizers.Com format would be awesome.

User avatar
dooj88
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1318
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by dooj88 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:43 pm

i think that would be a sweet idea. with some normalling of the voltages to the other inputs, one could have a whole playable symphony going of related but variable pitches going!

User avatar
ersatzplanet
Synthwerks Design
Posts: 6281
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:18 pm
Location: Seattle WA

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by ersatzplanet » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:50 pm

A combo of a buffered must and the opposite - a unity summer, would be nice. Work out a normalization scheme that would allow creative uses. Being able to combine a sequencer and a keyboard (for transposing) and then have it sent to multiple destinations would always com in handy.
-James

James Husted - Synthwerks, LLC - www.synthwerks.com - info@synthwerks.com - james@synthwerks.com
Synthwerks is a proud member of the Mostly Modular Trade Association (http://www.mostlymodular.com).
Always looking to trade for Doepfer P6 cases

User avatar
James
Common Wiggler
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:46 pm
Location: New York

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by James » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:02 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:50 pm
A combo of a buffered must and the opposite - a unity summer, would be nice.
This is EXACTLY what I've looked for on and off for a long time. I never need two pairs of buffered mults, so to be able to just send the oscillators right back, in a 2hp package, would be perfect.

thermisonic
Common Wiggler
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:28 am
Location: uk

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by thermisonic » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:10 am

a precision adder would make sense if k=no one has done that before

User avatar
Navs
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4077
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:49 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by Navs » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:29 pm

When does a buffered mult cease to be a buffered mult? :hihi:

I've got a couple of Analogue Solutions' MX224s in my system, have done since I started. It seemed like a great, useful design:
120306_1.jpg
Picture credit: https://www.schneidersladen.de/de/analo ... ?archive=1
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
MindMachine
weekend warrior
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:45 am
Location: Santa Susana Field Lab

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by MindMachine » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:45 pm

Navs wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:29 pm
When does a buffered mult cease to be a buffered mult? :hihi:

I've got a couple of Analogue Solutions' MX224s in my system, have done since I started. It seemed like a great, useful design:

120306_1.jpg

Picture credit: https://www.schneidersladen.de/de/analo ... ?archive=1
I have two of those. I also have a Plan B Model 9 Mixer/Attenuator set, which has the ver7 useful switches. I use EMW and Studio Electronics Boomstar Switches/Routers for all of my patches. I would include on/off switches on all mults but they will add 2hp.
FS: A-140-2 Dual VC ADSR, Erica VCA 2, SP-555 Sampler and more - CHEAP!!!
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=227738
WTT: my Mangler for your Rumour

User avatar
thetwlo
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4773
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:05 pm
Location: East Bay, CA US

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by thetwlo » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:02 am

free market research?
to rip off another's design?
why would you stoop so low?

User avatar
MindMachine
weekend warrior
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:45 am
Location: Santa Susana Field Lab

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by MindMachine » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:20 am

thetwlo wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:02 am
free market research?
to rip off another's design?
why would you stoop so low?
That might be a little bit of the old jump to conclusions action, but if not, there are all kinds of designers and dealers that regularly post here for a tickle.

I like in/out switches on modules.
FS: A-140-2 Dual VC ADSR, Erica VCA 2, SP-555 Sampler and more - CHEAP!!!
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=227738
WTT: my Mangler for your Rumour

User avatar
moremagic
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1074
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:45 pm
Location: NC
Contact:

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by moremagic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:40 am

Navs wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:29 pm
When does a buffered mult cease to be a buffered mult? :hihi:

I've got a couple of Analogue Solutions' MX224s in my system, have done since I started. It seemed like a great, useful design:

120306_1.jpg

Picture credit: https://www.schneidersladen.de/de/analo ... ?archive=1
exactly, if youre gonna use an op amp to buffer it, use that inverted output for something

beepnsleep
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:19 pm

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by beepnsleep » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:18 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:50 pm
A combo of a buffered must and the opposite - a unity summer, would be nice. Work out a normalization scheme that would allow creative uses. Being able to combine a sequencer and a keyboard (for transposing) and then have it sent to multiple destinations would always com in handy.

Have you seen Frap Tools 333? 3x 3 input unity sums with 3 outputs each. each section normalised to the next so Use 1 input and it can be a 1:3, 1:6 or 1:9 mult, 1:3 +1:6, 3x 1:3 etc

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/frap-tools-333

Teusa Rass
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:03 am
Location: Bremen Germany

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by Teusa Rass » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:09 pm

In my system I have an A-180 Doepfer, a Horstronic, and two of Fonik's attenuverters.
What I'd like to have is push button switches for the outs,
and/or pots that precisely snap in at Zero.

helix
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:13 am
Location: London, England

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by helix » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:22 pm

LED lights on inputs just so they look nice. Bi colour for +-ve :yay:

JeebsFat
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:08 pm
Location: Louisville, KY

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by JeebsFat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:03 am

Diatonic offset for pitch?

Divider for clock?

I like the idea of having a 1>3 mult paired with a 3>1 unity sum. I have a dual 1>3 next to a dual 3>1, but it's more than my small system needs.

I like the idea of a mult offset/mult attenuator.

User avatar
wiperactive
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:17 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, UK

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by wiperactive » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:44 am

MindMachine wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:45 pm
Navs wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:29 pm
When does a buffered mult cease to be a buffered mult? :hihi:

I've got a couple of Analogue Solutions' MX224s in my system, have done since I started. It seemed like a great, useful design:

120306_1.jpg

Picture credit: https://www.schneidersladen.de/de/analo ... ?archive=1
I have two of those. I also have a Plan B Model 9 Mixer/Attenuator set, which has the ver7 useful switches. I use EMW and Studio Electronics Boomstar Switches/Routers for all of my patches. I would include on/off switches on all mults but they will add 2hp.
Oh! 'Snap' - two here as well!

Opportunistically bought another second-hand and very cheap MX224 a few months ago while all my rig was in storage (and currently still is) before I became aware that not all buffers are created equal in terms of accuracy. With that in mind I added an adjustable AJH Synth V-Scale for more critical scenarios for when I get properly set up again.

Since I'm currently 'grounded', does anyone have any observations/measurements as to the accuracy or limitations of the ASol MX224?

Parnelli
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 6:04 pm
Location: Utah

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by Parnelli » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:24 pm

A buff mult with the ability to add a set value for pitch change and such when you're using one for pitch CV might be cool.

User avatar
Blairio
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1692
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:50 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by Blairio » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:00 pm

helix wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:22 pm
LED lights on inputs just so they look nice. Bi colour for +-ve :yay:
My 4ms buffered mult has these and they are really useful for diagnostics:

The presence / absence of a signal
Its intensity
Its polarity
Its frequency

The 4ms also has video grade op-amps, so is a quality piece of kit. It is however 3HP, but that's what 1HP blank panels are for.

helix
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:13 am
Location: London, England

Re: What (non-standard) features would you like in a Buffered Multiple?

Post by helix » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:45 am

Blairio wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:00 pm
helix wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:22 pm
LED lights on inputs just so they look nice. Bi colour for +-ve :yay:
My 4ms buffered mult has these and they are really useful for diagnostics:

The presence / absence of a signal
Its intensity
Its polarity
Its frequency

The 4ms also has video grade op-amps, so is a quality piece of kit. It is however 3HP, but that's what 1HP blank panels are for.
Exactly, i'm actually building myself a mult with these. 8 ins down the left, with each channel having two outs. A bi colour LED in between the in and out shows whats going on. This is all designed to be sending signals from my DAW, so nothing precise like 1v/oct

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”