Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

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johnleonne
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Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by johnleonne » Sun May 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Hi All, I'm totally new to the modular world, after having watched countless youtube videos of hundreds of modules, I'm left :hmm: All demos I have seen sound Moog, or 70s like, or 303 etc. style, or noisy, too much drive, too much going on, etc.

What I am aiming for is sounds like this:



To me this sounds clean, dry and pure. These sounds are generated from a self-made synth, an image of which can be seen towards the end of the video.

Now hopefully many of you are going to tell me this is too easy to generate with any modular setup.

Which modules would get me closest to sounds like this? And 5U or Eurorack, or doesn't matter? (I am leaning a bit towards 5U since from watching all the demos I did feel they produce a slighter cleaner sound, but as oft been commented in these forums, that could also have to do with the people playing the synth, each attracting a different sort of players and interest)

Any pointers are appreciated.

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wuff_miggler
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by wuff_miggler » Sun May 10, 2020 10:45 pm

i am fairly certain without exaggeration you could make the bulk of this song with :

Image

+

Image

as sound sources. You'd need a basic filter for LPF and HPF as well as VCA, Envelopes, a mixer and so on (pretty much a basic doepfer system with that particular 110-4 used as primary osc will do it).

The doepfer A-110-4 is a sine-core oscillator - so it's literally as clean as possible and search here on muffs - and a few will tell you its one of the cleaner osc's out there.

sidenote: cool tune - doesnt do much for me at home on cans - but i can imagine this cranking on a serious PA :D

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thelowerrhythm
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by thelowerrhythm » Mon May 11, 2020 12:49 am

*what wuff_miggler said. If I were trying to get out the sounds you're descrbing, that is exactly the gear I'd reach for. Just synthesis basics. Dig the listen btw. Wish I could see it performed on the machine itself.
:party:

johnleonne
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by johnleonne » Mon May 11, 2020 6:40 pm

Awesome, thanks wuff_miggler and thelowerrhythm! So I suspect from this the secret sauce is in the thru zero FM technique, watched some videos on that subject, and it seems very promising. I've ordered the A-110-4 and A-118, and also added the A-143-9 as it seemed to fit. Can't wait to play with this.

Image

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wuff_miggler
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by wuff_miggler » Mon May 11, 2020 6:58 pm

the fm doesnt do much for the sub kick sound or noise - but it was more so for that bell sound :-)

as the lowerrhythm said - the doepfer basic system could achieve this - which doesnt have a sine-core osc (the 110-4 however recommended for purity).

really this sound could be achieved in a computer even with super rudimentary synth plugins too. the sounds are very basic! the magic with minimal - comes from mixing + compression + eq and your effects processing, and ambience/tape noise/field recording snippets - from a synthesis standpoint nothing crazy!

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dubonaire
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by dubonaire » Tue May 12, 2020 3:44 am

You can watch Mika Vainio with that synth here.



But I think any basic synths will get you there. You don't need a sine core synth, any module that will make sine waves will do, and I actually like sine waves a bit imperfect. If you listen to the video it's not a clean sine from that machine. But you can also just use a filter in self oscillation to get a clean sine wave.

Recently, before he sadly passed away, he was using pretty basic gear including an Electribe and samples.

If you want to hear really pure sounds have a listen to Alva Noto or Frank Bretschneider.





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wuff_miggler
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by wuff_miggler » Tue May 12, 2020 4:04 am

i love that mika vaino spot in that bjork doc - dude is a fucking legend....RIP.
def agree with you dubonaire re imperfect waves - i guess i just latched on to the OP wanting something as clean as possible

johnleonne
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by johnleonne » Tue May 12, 2020 8:43 am

I was referring to all the sounds that can be heard. As Bjork says in the video: synthesizer music from a Scandinavian point of view... but what does that mean really? ;-) I can hear it, but I can't explain it. Best I could put it was as clean and pure, which is not to say the sounds are "perfect", in fact, they are not, but they are very defined. The recordings for the Metri album were by the way studio live recordings played with analogue equipment direct to DA-tape, after that only digital mastering.

Last I've seen Mika was using a Vermona Mono Lancet, an OTO Biscuit, and indeed a Korg Electribe. Nothing more than that really.

Glad to hear this can be done with basic equipment, somehow I'm still in doubt ;) I'll see how far I get this time.

Thanks for all the pointers (and Alva Noto, pretty cool)

nuromantix
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by nuromantix » Tue May 12, 2020 11:10 am

People have steered you in the right direction but of course it's not the gear, it's what's between the headphones that counts. That's why he could do a good show with an electribe! Sorry I know it's boring but it's true.

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dubonaire
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by dubonaire » Tue May 12, 2020 9:51 pm

johnleonne wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:43 am
I was referring to all the sounds that can be heard. As Bjork says in the video: synthesizer music from a Scandinavian point of view... but what does that mean really? ;-) I can hear it, but I can't explain it. Best I could put it was as clean and pure, which is not to say the sounds are "perfect", in fact, they are not, but they are very defined. The recordings for the Metri album were by the way studio live recordings played with analogue equipment direct to DA-tape, after that only digital mastering.

Last I've seen Mika was using a Vermona Mono Lancet, an OTO Biscuit, and indeed a Korg Electribe. Nothing more than that really.

Glad to hear this can be done with basic equipment, somehow I'm still in doubt ;) I'll see how far I get this time.

Thanks for all the pointers (and Alva Noto, pretty cool)
Well another side of Mika Vainio is wall of sound noise especially with Pan Sonic and I'm not sure if you would describe that as pure. Perhaps basic and raw would be a better description.

I think Bjorn's comment that it is Scandinavian is debatable. That sounds like a parochial view to me. Maybe the Nordic drama is there but this type of music comes from all over the world.

Yeah check out the whole Raster Noton label. Lots of great stuff there.

Also check out Ryoji Ikeda - amazing installations to experience.


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wuff_miggler
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by wuff_miggler » Wed May 13, 2020 12:57 am

Ikeda's instalations are fucking mind blowing - really...check out one of his @ MONA in australia...fuck me.

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dubonaire
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by dubonaire » Wed May 13, 2020 7:25 am

wuff_miggler wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:57 am
Ikeda's instalations are fucking mind blowing - really...check out one of his @ MONA in australia...fuck me.
Which one?

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artilect99
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by artilect99 » Thu May 21, 2020 1:22 am

I love Mika's stuff too, pansonic and especially his early stuff as Ø. Very pure tones, lots of sinewaves and test oscillator type stuff. So I was kinda shocked when I looked up pictures of his studio and live setups and they had a lot of pretty pedestrian stuff -- 808, big muff distortion, monosynths. Just regular 90's techno stuff for the most part... so I think his specific sound comes much more down to the choices he makes and skill with sound design than the gear. But definitely for that sound I'd go for raw oscillators, analog drums, spring reverb, feedback loops etc.

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wuff_miggler
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by wuff_miggler » Thu May 21, 2020 1:35 am

dubonaire wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:25 am
wuff_miggler wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:57 am
Ikeda's instalations are fucking mind blowing - really...check out one of his @ MONA in australia...fuck me.
Which one?
sorry dubonaire - i thought i answered this ! clearly not.
i saw 'supersymmetry'.

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Biom
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by Biom » Thu May 21, 2020 8:49 pm

johnleonne wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:43 am
Last I've seen Mika was using a Vermona Mono Lancet, an OTO Biscuit, and indeed a Korg Electribe. Nothing more than that really.
You just answered your own question - it’s not the gear, it’s the person.

If you wish to “recreate” somebody’s music, you’d better try to live similar life and have similar experience. This will make you understand something the way this person understood and have similar enlightenment = similar music.

If you’ll buy a piano, you won’t necessarily play it the way Glenn Gould played it. I can’t understand what still makes people think it this way with electronics. No matter what instrument you’re playing, it is HOW and WHAT you play. I can only tell it depends on a lot of factors, simply put - life.

I’ve read that Johannes Itten experimented with his students, trying to unleash their potential as much as possible, and noticed that even the hair color mattered - he noticed the difference between blonde and dark haired students preferring different paint colors, not to say about mentality and characters.

You’ll find difficulty recreating something, that belongs to somebody living a very different life, being a very different person, not because it’s hard technically, but because it may have zero sense to you personally and your own life.

Some things seem easier to recreate, like minimalist art, but once you start doing this, you’ll find yourself in a very frustrated situation, until you start living your own life and have your own perspective, mind and energy. All these art pieces were created this way, no matter when and how and with what gear. It was created with a certain energy. People here and Mika just proved it million times - gear is irrelevant, until you realize you need it because of a personal reason.

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MarcelP
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by MarcelP » Fri May 22, 2020 5:54 pm

wuff_miggler wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:57 am
Ikeda's instalations are fucking mind blowing - really...check out one of his @ MONA in australia...fuck me.
His live shows are astounding - seen him do a few shows in London - from complex multi screen stuff at the Barbican to stark black and white projection in an old car-park off Oxford street. Transcendental stuff every time.

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wuff_miggler
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Re: Looking for particular sounds: clean, dry, pure

Post by wuff_miggler » Fri May 22, 2020 5:57 pm

trancendental is a word i dont often/if ever use...but definately applies here :D
equal parts technical and artistic visionary for sure.

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