Strings and saw waves

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wuff_miggler
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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by wuff_miggler » Thu May 21, 2020 4:12 pm

^ thats excellent jimY!
could see that being epic within a band context :D

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by JimY » Fri May 22, 2020 10:13 am

Well, it's certainly getting there (it is essentially a Solina signal path). The biggest problem is the high pass filtering - it really needs to track the fundamental pitch and that is difficult with a standalone system, especially with a guitar input. With a fixed filter you have to find the sweet spot which barely covers 2 octaves. Outside of that it sounds either like a fuzz pedal or a Kazoo! In a string machine, the filter is fixed, but there's one for every note and its pitch is known. The exception was the Logan that had fixed filtering per voice - but each voice only covers 2 octaves so it got away with that.

I think playing with appropriate articulation is very important. With a fretted guitar I could only impose vibrato which also helps in getting the required sustain, but no proper glide. In a synth, I'd want something that demands the same and similar effort to the finger on a string experience. I know there's so much hate for them, but I always thought ARP's PPC pads were really good for getting a more natural vibrato (the # one for strings of course). Maybe its because I'm left-handed and a guitar player, but I really got on well with them. I have no idea why a keyboard controller couldn't have pressure pads in addition to wheel or stick.

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by jorg » Fri May 22, 2020 10:54 am

cptnal wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:46 am
I did this a few months ago, more as an exercise in expression and dynamics than trying to achieve a specific sound....
Very impressive!

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by jorg » Fri May 22, 2020 11:01 am

3hands wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:05 pm
That’s are the threads that got me to sign up to muffwiggler.
Thanks so much for this! It’s nice to see a thread I don’t have to “worry about”.
I have to worry about this one. Seems I'm about to waste hundreds of hours on this. :-)

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by MindMachine » Fri May 22, 2020 11:39 pm

cptnal wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:46 am
Would it be off topic to suggest a triangle wave?

I did this a few months ago, more as an exercise in expression and dynamics than trying to achieve a specific sound. I can't remember the exact signal path, but the main idea was using the difference patch to control modulation depth. You can hear that higher harmonics come in with louder and higher notes.

Fantastic. Was that with just a static keyboard controlling?
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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by cptnal » Sat May 23, 2020 7:25 am

MindMachine wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:39 pm
cptnal wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:46 am
Would it be off topic to suggest a triangle wave?

I did this a few months ago, more as an exercise in expression and dynamics than trying to achieve a specific sound. I can't remember the exact signal path, but the main idea was using the difference patch to control modulation depth. You can hear that higher harmonics come in with louder and higher notes.

Fantastic. Was that with just a static keyboard controlling?
Thank you, and thank you jorg.

No keyboard - it's entirely self-playing. I'll often start with a Krell-ish base. Rather, a function's EOC triggering a sample and hold determines the time of the next cycle. The S&H's input needn't be random. It's such a simple and versatile idea that I keep coming back to it. So the whole patch revolves around that idea and as is often the case I'm trying to get as much movement as I can from as few sources as possible. Case in point - the second "cello" is just the first through a long delay.

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by tardishead » Thu May 28, 2020 3:55 am

KSS wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:16 pm
VZvision wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:50 am
perhaps a bit of portamento to model it as fretless ...
Typical portamento-glide wil be backwards or missing correct relationship. Expo = slow to start building as 'distance' is covered, ending quickly. Linear = constant change rate. Neither is what actually happens.

You need S-shaped transitions. Slow to begin the finger position change -inertia, then very quickly to the very near correct point on the fretboard -muscle/spatial memory, ending by small degree modification of finger position relatively slowly as ear-finger feedback loop engages to get correct pitch. Modulation at the destination 'covering' the final position seek. Increasing modulation if called for by the piece.

If going for a simpler version you'd want to start linear and finish expo. Backwards from typical synth expo glide.
Yeh right. Thanks for breaking this down. I've always wondered why I cant get a realistic performance sound.
Is there a module that incorporates this? Or how could this be achieved. I have both exp and linear slew modules. Would a log response be better?

I have only recently started to explore the idea of mimicking acoustic instruments and I am really blown away by how close you can get. I have 4 Polymoog resonators and there a world of exploration right there. To make it realistic - as well as body resonances you have to think of room resonances as well. If you record a violin or most acoustic instruments in a dead space it sounds terrible and sterile.

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu May 28, 2020 4:08 am

JimY wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:13 am
... I think playing with appropriate articulation is very important. With a fretted guitar I could only impose vibrato which also helps in getting the required sustain, but no proper glide.
... a bit of a side track here, but it's worth knowing (or remembering) that the guitar+slide+Ebow thing works excellent for improvised string sounds. Add distortion to suit if needed ... otherwise that little formula works pretty well. I LUV my Ebows .... LUV them. :)

Back to topic .... :)
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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu May 28, 2020 4:15 am

cptnal wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:25 am
.... Case in point - the second "cello" is just the first through a long delay.
AH! Yes! Quite effective indeed!

Y'know, Brian May (guitar, band "Queen") made excellent use of delays (aka "echo" a la 1970s jargon). A lot of what sounds like a dual guitar lead is actually just him. Properly timed to fit just right with the tempo, it can be used to make it sound as though there are two musicians playing, one on the melody, the other various intervals apart, all depending on how the player ~works~ the delay vs the dry line.

Nice adaptive use of that technique there! :tu:
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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by synkrotron » Thu May 28, 2020 4:15 am

Back of topic, for a moment, if you don't mind.
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:08 am
I LUV my Ebows
How many have you got?

I know there are a couple of versions so perhaps you have an older one.

I've got just the "plus" version, from around 2002. I don't use it as often as I should...

Okay, back on topic again.

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Re: Strings and saw waves

Post by wuff_miggler » Thu May 28, 2020 4:22 am

ebow is great - seconded on suitability!

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