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Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

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Post by dude » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:52 pm

bwhittington wrote::zen: Not all are worthy of the White Synth! :zen:
all are worthy, but all are not interested in meeting the price-point.

as for the diy subject. 5u is, to me, clearly where the largest action is. now of course you could port any format to any other format if your skills and desire are strong, but...

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:52 pm

dude wrote:nah, i just know it doesn't seem like the right fit.
Oh, I see! Playing the old reverse psychology trick, eh? :hihi:

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Post by dude » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:57 pm

oh you guys. sorry i am less playful today. being trolled in this thread and having home strife leave me less likely to gush.

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Post by whitewulfe » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:59 pm

bwhittington wrote:I would respectfully suggest not heeding decaying.sine's advice, at least initially. The man is a sick synthesis masochist who wears t-shirts emblazoned with unicorn penises for goodness sake. :lol: He's not to be trusted. There really isn't any reason to start messing with adaptor cables after your first $1500-2000 purchase.
*laughs* Interesting description of someone! And... I'll admit, having only one set of cables would be nice.
bwhittington wrote:While I will readily admit to having warm-fuzzies for Dotcom--despite owning a handful of other formats including a bit of exotica, it really is still my favorite--be aware that the entry system selection basically gives you a patchable Moog monosynth. This can be good or bad, depending on your wants, but to me Dotcom starts getting fun somewhere north of 20 spaces. For similar money in Euro, you could buy a Hertz Donut, Maths or VCS, Polivoks, and a couple vcas (or something like that--I'm no Euro guru) and have a very different kind of experience with your starter set. It depends on what appeals to you and where you want to go thereafter.
*nods* I do understand that the starter synth is just that - something to start with. The plan is to later on add more at a later time. Essentially, right now I'm looking to start with a few items, and then as the need for various other things crops up purchase as required. I do like the Moog sound, so such won't strike me as much of an issue.

Oddly enough, some of those eurorack modules you mention are ones I have my eye on (Hertz Donut, Piston Honda, Polivoks, and of course the WMD Geiger Counter being some of the ones I was looking at)...
bwhittington wrote:One of my favorite things about Dotcom that seems right up your alley is the wealth of technical data available on the website and wiki, as well as expertise on the Yahoo group, etc, about modifying the modules. There's something about the Dotcom format and price point that begs to be hacked in a way I would never contemplate with my Buchla modules, say. You can certainly adapt many pcbs to use in Euro format, and the inverse is true as well: a number of people repanel their favorite Euro modules for 5U. It really depends on what you want to do.
Hmmm, I never contemplated the prospect of repanelling euro modules into 5U. And there's even a guy here who's got insanely gorgeous skills at making panels for reasonable prices (including assistance with design too!).

Oooh, modding sounds like quite the lovely thing, especially given the forgiving pricing DOTcom modules have if one happens to cause irrepairable damage.
bwhittington wrote:The nice thing about all of it is that you can take a step one way and if you don't like it, there is a *very* active market for used modules. I mean some stuff changes hands in minutes, and at least in 5U I've rarely had a sale post last longer than a day. If you buy used to begin with, you can try out stuff for the cost of shipping, or sometimes even make a few bucks on a sale.
Hmmm, as others have mentioned, I'll definitely have to look into the prospects of buying used.
JohnLRice wrote:Welcome whitewulfe! :party:

I'm a die hard 5U so of course I think you should go 5U! :hyper:

That said, for some reason when I read the list of bands you are into my first though was you should go Euro. :hmm: That coupled with the cost factor. Sure, you can start small, but to probably get enough 5U modules and associated racks, power supplies, patchcords to do what you want you are going to spend at least $5000 IMHO.

I gotta go eat dinner but I need to comment my concern for Dude! In a thread about format choice where the OP is leaning towards 5U and Dude doesn't even mention Modcan???? :woah: I hope he isn't ill or being held captive and this is his way of letting us know to call the police! :lol: 8_)
I feel honoured that the person who's system I envy (and might emulate, at least the casings) has chimed in on my thread ^_^ I do understand that this system will more than likely grow (exponentially), but I'm quite curious as to why you initially thought Euro might be more appropriate, as well as why the estimate of approximately $5k is mentioned.
dude wrote:nah, i just know it doesn't seem like the right fit.
Sadly, as delicious sounding as Modcan is, right now the price point is a touch too high (somewhere around the $450 USD each mark). As well, isn't the opinion most have of Modcan being that of a more clean sound? Later on, as the synth develops, I very well might look into adding a rack or two of Modcan B as I do like the samples I've heard so far, but such would be much further down the line (things like a drum machine and another synth or two would have higher priority than Modcan)

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Post by dude » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:02 pm

nah modcan can be dirty as fuck. any thing can be clean or dirty just depends on how you process in my experience.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:58 pm

dude wrote:oh you guys. sorry i am less playful today. being trolled in this thread and having home strife leave me less likely to gush.
Sorry if you are having a bad day/week, dude! I was just playin! :hug: I hope things get better!

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Post by dude » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:13 am

oh it wasn't you john at all. certainly no need for apologies but thanks for the love. i need it at the moment.

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Post by JohnLRice » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:39 am

whitewulfe wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:I'm a die hard 5U so of course I think you should go 5U! :hyper:

That said, for some reason when I read the list of bands you are into my first though was you should go Euro. :hmm: That coupled with the cost factor. Sure, you can start small, but to probably get enough 5U modules and associated racks, power supplies, patchcords to do what you want you are going to spend at least $5000 IMHO.
I'm quite curious as to why you initially thought Euro might be more appropriate, as well as why the estimate of approximately $5k is mentioned.
Well, I was quickly pulling stuff out of my ass, basically! :mrgreen:

While I have limited knowledge of the bands you mentioned, as I thought of the demos I've heard of Eurorack modulars, there was a stronger connection between the two in my mind than those bands and other modular formats. I guess it's just a gut/instinctive thing . . .

Within any modular format, each can pretty much do the same things the others can so I don't think it's critical.

The $5k for a very capable 5u system was just a quick average.

This nice basic single case Synth Tech MOTM system would be a little over $4000:
3 x VCO's
1 x Noise/S&H
2 x VCFs
2 x EGs
1 x Dual VCA
1 x VC LFO
1 x Mixer
1 x MIDI->CV
power supply
EWI rack
patchcords

Add a second rack of approximately the same value and you are up around $8000 :eek: :hihi: :hyper:

If you were to go with all or mostly Oakley it would be somewhat less and if you went with Modcan it would be somewhat more. Or mix and match all three, it's fun! :cloud:

The Synthesizers.com Portable-44 is just a hair under $5,000

Of course, if you build a lot of your items and/or buy used you can save a lot. I think a large majority of my synth came from purchasing used modules.

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Post by whitewulfe » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:59 am

bwhittington wrote::zen: Not all are worthy of the White Synth! :zen:
But, but... I like black... *laughs nervously* It wouldn't match the black desk, black shelving, black headphones, black pants... lol
sduck wrote:Those of us with really large unicorn peni all use 5U. It's the law.

No. Seriously, you're not adverse to diy? That's where the real fun is. Sure, anyone can buy lots of cool modules and make some really cool music, but when you've actually built your own modules (even if it's just one or 2) the music you make is MUCH cooler.

See this mess?
(pic embed link removed to keep quote shorter)
I built every module in it. And a bunch more. And if I can do it, anyone can, really.

So 5U is where it's at, at least in my tiny spot of the world. The next best format is +-15v banana euro. Or at least it should be.
I can definitely see the appeal/bragging rights about building the modules oneself. The other benefit is building it yourself can save upwards of $200 on modules when comparing a full kit to assembled and tested. Sure building it yourself costs time instead of money, but hey, that's why it's a hobby and one has fun with it :)
dude wrote:nah modcan can be dirty as fuck. any thing can be clean or dirty just depends on how you process in my experience.
Hmm, such is good to hear. I'm going to venture a guess such applies to both Modcan A as well as B? Modcan is something I could consider, although it would take longer to build a modcan based system compared to DOTcom.
JohnLRice wrote:Well, I was quickly pulling stuff out of my ass, basically! :mrgreen:

While I have limited knowledge of the bands you mentioned, as I thought of the demos I've heard of Eurorack modulars, there was a stronger connection between the two in my mind than those bands and other modular formats. I guess it's just a gut/instinctive thing . . .
*nods* Makes sense. There seem to be a lot more doing those kinds of sounds with Eurorack.
JohnLRice wrote:Within any modular format, each can pretty much do the same things the others can so I don't think it's critical.
Such is good to hear.
JohnLRice wrote:The $5k for a very capable 5u system was just a quick average.

This nice basic single case Synth Tech MOTM system would be a little over $4000:
3 x VCO's
1 x Noise/S&H
2 x VCFs
2 x EGs
1 x Dual VCA
1 x VC LFO
1 x Mixer
1 x MIDI->CV
power supply
EWI rack
patchcords

Add a second rack of approximately the same value and you are up around $8000 :eek: :hihi: :hyper:

If you were to go with all or mostly Oakley it would be somewhat less and if you went with Modcan it would be somewhat more. Or mix and match all three, it's fun! :cloud:

The Synthesizers.com Portable-44 is just a hair under $5,000

Of course, if you build a lot of your items and/or buy used you can save a lot. I think a large majority of my synth came from purchasing used modules.
...Wow, I didn't realize that the costs add up so quickly, so I can see where saving a little here and there through DIY as well as purchasing used could add up in short order.

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Post by dude » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:16 am

as for that bit about modcan a/b they are the same modules almost entirely. little changes here and there but not much. the big difference is just the different form factor and the banana jacks on a series.

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Post by bwhittington » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:27 am

whitewulfe wrote:
bwhittington wrote::zen: Not all are worthy of the White Synth! :zen:
But, but... I like black... *laughs nervously* It wouldn't match the black desk, black shelving, black headphones, black pants... lol
Once you go black you never go back. There, someone had to say it. The best thing about 5U is the instant Death Star action you have in your studio. Appearances are everything. Come to the Dark Side.

:jedi:
whitewulfe wrote:Hmm, such is good to hear. I'm going to venture a guess such applies to both Modcan A as well as B? Modcan is something I could consider, although it would take longer to build a modcan based system compared to DOTcom.
I'm constantly tempted by Modcan A, mainly because the used offerings tend to be quite cheap. Someone was struggling to sell an oscillator at 60-65% of new a few weeks ago. It really is almost shameful given how nice the stuff is. B seems to be were the action is these days, but it all is really lovely, well designed stuff.
whitewulfe wrote:Hmmm, as others have mentioned, I'll definitely have to look into the prospects of buying used.
Well, one of the reasons for the quick sales is that there is very little 5U available for sale used. There is a nice complete system that's been floating around B/S/T for a long while if you want to mortgage the farm and get in at a very nice price.

The cost of systems is all relative. Apparently you can spend $5k on 20U of MOTM. I spent much, much less on a 50 space Dotcom, accounting for some advantageous buying and selling along the way. Used brings it down maybe 20-25%, DIY brings it down way lower--particularly a DIY case and psu to start--and so on. It can cost what you want, over whatever period you want. But plan on getting sucked in and spending way more than you ever thought possible. That's pretty much the trend.

Cheers,
Brian
Last edited by bwhittington on Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gryfon1 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:29 am

And you can usually get Bruce to make a B series module with banana jacks, at least if it's one of the ones not available in A-series.
That's how I got my dual sequencer case fitted out for integration in my A-series system.

Enjoy your search and decision-making process! The journey is worth it :sb:

Cheers,
The gryfon

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Post by bwhittington » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:35 am

dude wrote:oh it wasn't you john at all. certainly no need for apologies but thanks for the love. i need it at the moment.
So that leaves me? Thanks for the slap, Liam. Truly sorry to hear about your home life. Hope things get better for you.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:47 am

bwhittington wrote: plan on getting sucked in and spending way more than you ever thought possible.
True words have never been spoken! :omg:

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Post by dude » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:50 am

nah, no slaps for you either brian. it was on the first page. doug disapproving of my disdain for your euro power solutions without explaining or adding any helpful stuff.

and i just changed my relationship status on f'ing facebook. what a nonsesne practice. ouff.

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Post by dude » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:51 am

JohnLRice wrote:
bwhittington wrote: plan on getting sucked in and spending way more than you ever thought possible.
True words have never been spoken! :omg:
no doubt

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Post by JohnLRice » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:55 am

bwhittington wrote:
dude wrote:oh it wasn't you john at all. certainly no need for apologies but thanks for the love. i need it at the moment.
So that leaves me? Thanks for the slap, Liam. Truly sorry to hear about your home life. Hope things get better for you.
Well, I think now it was Doug's post but . . . I think it was taken wrong. I thought Doug was agreeing with Liam, that the Euro power supply connection design was a 'fail' but Liam took it as Doug was saying Liam's post was a fail . . . maybe? :hmm: Maybe I should stay out of it . . .everytime I try to "fix" things in my own personal life it seems I make things 1000 times worse . . . :waah: :deadbanana:

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Post by JohnLRice » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:57 am

dude wrote:and i just changed my relationship status on f'ing facebook. what a nonsesne practice. ouff.
:doh: Sorry to hear it! :hug:

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Post by bwhittington » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:02 pm

dude wrote:nah, no slaps for you either brian. it was on the first page. doug disapproving of my disdain for your euro power solutions without explaining or adding any helpful stuff.

and i just changed my relationship status on f'ing facebook. what a nonsesne practice. ouff.
Oh yeah, I thought that was a little weird, too.. Sorry for being presumptuous.

I guess we'll assume you didn't change it to "married to." :waah: Sorry to hear about that. I refuse to declare a relationship status on facebook, which has actually hurt the feelings of a couple young ladies. It just seems like a strange practice to me, particularly when a page of my activity there typically dates back six months or more.

:hug:

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Post by dude » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:05 pm

thanks brian.

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Post by neandrewthal » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:12 pm

I'm so sorry dude :waah: :hug:

I hope this doesn't necessitate any moving about and no cats or synthesizers (but mostly cats) get hurt in the process.

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Post by whitewulfe » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:59 pm

dude wrote:as for that bit about modcan a/b they are the same modules almost entirely. little changes here and there but not much. the big difference is just the different form factor and the banana jacks on a series.
Ah, such is good to hear. As well, I'm also noticing that Modcan A is black in colour. yes, I'll admit I never looked at Modcan A for some silly reason o_O And, for some strange reason, the more I look at banana jacks the more they're becoming appealing...
bwhittington wrote:Once you go black you never go back. There, someone had to say it. The best thing about 5U is the instant Death Star action you have in your studio. Appearances are everything. Come to the Dark Side.

:jedi:
*laughs* I'll admit, the somewhat apparent uniformity that the various 5U setups have is quite appealing. And hmm, a death star in my bedroom is quite tempting, but only if I get the planet killing laser too! :P Dark side has better parties anyways ^_^
bwhittington wrote:I'm constantly tempted by Modcan A, mainly because the used offerings tend to be quite cheap. Someone was struggling to sell an oscillator at 60-65% of new a few weeks ago. It really is almost shameful given how nice the stuff is. B seems to be were the action is these days, but it all is really lovely, well designed stuff.
Well, after having looked at Modcan A... Man, that stuff is pretty gorgeous looking to say the least, and the banana jacks have me intrigued, even more so since they're stackable.
bwhittington wrote:Well, one of the reasons for the quick sales is that there is very little 5U available for sale used. There is a nice complete system that's been floating around B/S/T for a long while if you want to mortgage the farm and get in at a very nice price.

The cost of systems is all relative. Apparently you can spend $5k on 20U of MOTM. I spent much, much less on a 50 space Dotcom, accounting for some advantageous buying and selling along the way. Used brings it down maybe 20-25%, DIY brings it down way lower--particularly a DIY case and psu to start--and so on. It can cost what you want, over whatever period you want. But plan on getting sucked in and spending way more than you ever thought possible. That's pretty much the trend.
Hmmm, I'll have to take a look at that system in b/s/t and think about it. Odds are, the plunge won't be for a few more months, especially since I'm still doing research on various things, but I sure seem to be leaning quite heavily towards 5U in general.

As for cost ballooning, I'm hoping to keep such under control (or at least, a semblance of such). My list for gear that I'd like to acquire seems to keep growing, no matter how much control I keep it under though *laughs* (it's ballooned from a $20k wish list to $40k already)
gryfon1 wrote:And you can usually get Bruce to make a B series module with banana jacks, at least if it's one of the ones not available in A-series.
That's how I got my dual sequencer case fitted out for integration in my A-series system.

Enjoy your search and decision-making process! The journey is worth it :sb:
Hmmm, another point for acquiring Modcan. I'm thinking at the moment I won't start out with Modcan, but for certain after the basics are covered I very well might look into acquiring a 7 space A rack and adding over time, and the various comments are slowly coaxing me into the prospects of making any DIY modules with banana jacks to start (and converting any pre-assembled ones I acquire).

It is indeed a lovely journey. So lovely, I tend to constantly think about music and whatnot at work :)

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Post by transferpoint » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:52 pm

get a jawharp

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Post by transferpoint » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:54 pm

whitewulfe... just get a couple of serge panels and call it a day. You'll thank me.

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Post by syzygywell » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:11 pm

decaying.sine wrote:
bwhittington wrote:5U is for boys and Euro is for girls. It really is that simple. :lol:

+1 on the large penis aspect. 8_)
:doh: well that explains why I went 5U
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