Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

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gis_sweden
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Post by gis_sweden » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:34 pm

meanwhile in sweden...
Had very little time for the synth today. But I made this little cool sound. Its one "neuron" (aka "feedback patch"). As long as it has contact (positive signal) you get a calm phase. This is just one OSC playing. "Work in progress".
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/487883/

EDIT:
I think I did it! :banana:
Switched of my synth. Suddenly I got an idea. Quick patch. Done. Booom! Mission accomplished!
Not at all as the sound/patch I had in my mind, but... Took a photo of the patch. Will evaluate it tomorrow. Really simple :eek:
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/487990/

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Post by colb » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:35 pm

gis_sweden wrote: I think I did it! :banana:
Switched of my synth. Suddenly I got an idea. Quick patch. Done. Booom! Mission accomplished!
:yay:

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Post by gis_sweden » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:56 am

colb wrote::yay:
Thanks, BUT... I just analysed my patch. I missed one detail. I will correct that. I missed the "internal feedback". :doh: To solve the problem I had to rethink how "neurons" can react to stimuli.

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Post by gis_sweden » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:56 pm

Now finally! My two neuron patch idea has a sound. Generative feedback patch. Generating harsh noise...
Yeah, really an achievement :lol: Well I'm happy. Afterwards I can see the patch idea as a graphic score. Remember.
userpix2/27319_2_neurons_not_so_small_1.jpg
Now this score has it's sound/music. Mission really accomplished. Title "Neurons in pain" :tu:
The piece HAS a structure. This is one cycle. Every cycle in the final patch is about 3 min.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/488107/
(13 modules except mixer (A-139p + A-138o) and out-module)

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Post by BananaPlug » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:48 am

Meanwhile in Philadelphia...

I'm getting ready for Halloween. Friends create an elaborate tableaux on their porch. It has all the traditional trappings, carved pumpkins, bats, the occasional effigy, some performance art and I provide electronic sounds.

This goes on for hours so it must be largely free running with me tweaking settings now and then or playing something additional on top. For this 2019 edition I concocted this euro/frac combo:

Image
LISTEN

For this recording, other than starting and stopping things and turning off the ring mod at 4:00, it's all on autopilot but there are many things I can change to refresh/alter it.

Relevant to this thread, I'd point out that Batcha's Grilles (Mutable Grids) and BugBrand's DDSR dual shift register are the two brains in this. What they have in common is multiple outputs and varying amounts of repetition and variation. They just do it in completely different ways.

Mostly it's Grilles(Grids) & BinaryBlockVoltage driving E950, Time Machine (vocals). DDSR driving Twin Peak, Fairfield ring mod, Dual Delay, DIY reverb (plinks). You can't see them very well but there's also a 208 style fixed random voltages and a Wogglebug.

Additionally I'll bring an 11fu row consisting of BugBrand Chirper, Crossover Filter and PT Delay. I'll improvise on that now and then or leave it with an ominous shifting drone.

:nana:
(Sounds)--> :eek:
Misconstrued comments taken out of context may offend some readers

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Post by cptnal » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:40 am

BananaPlug wrote:Meanwhile in Philadelphia...

I'm getting ready for Halloween. Friends create an elaborate tableaux on their porch. It has all the traditional trappings, carved pumpkins, bats, the occasional effigy, some performance art and I provide electronic sounds.

This goes on for hours so it must be largely free running with me tweaking settings now and then or playing something additional on top. For this 2019 edition I concocted this euro/frac combo:

Image
LISTEN

For this recording, other than starting and stopping things and turning off the ring mod at 4:00, it's all on autopilot but there are many things I can change to refresh/alter it.

Relevant to this thread, I'd point out that Batcha's Grilles (Mutable Grids) and BugBrand's DDSR dual shift register are the two brains in this. What they have in common is multiple outputs and varying amounts of repetition and variation. They just do it in completely different ways.

Mostly it's Grilles(Grids) & BinaryBlockVoltage driving E950, Time Machine (vocals). DDSR driving Twin Peak, Fairfield ring mod, Dual Delay, DIY reverb (plinks). You can't see them very well but there's also a 208 style fixed random voltages and a Wogglebug.

Additionally I'll bring an 11fu row consisting of BugBrand Chirper, Crossover Filter and PT Delay. I'll improvise on that now and then or leave it with an ominous shifting drone.

:nana:
Oooo… Sounds loads fun! I must say I find the idea of a dual shift register most intriguing. Must investigate...

Good luck with the gig. :bananaguitar:
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
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Post by pugix » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:37 pm

Very listenable!

Interesting combination of Euro and Frac. I don't remember seeing a rack combining Blacet and BugBrand, but it's a great idea.

I have an E950 too and I have used it mostly for 'recognizable' words. Do you ever make the E950 do totally crazy sounds, of which it is quite capable?
BananaPlug wrote:Meanwhile in Philadelphia...

I'm getting ready for Halloween. Friends create an elaborate tableaux on their porch. It has all the traditional trappings, carved pumpkins, bats, the occasional effigy, some performance art and I provide electronic sounds.

This goes on for hours so it must be largely free running with me tweaking settings now and then or playing something additional on top. For this 2019 edition I concocted this euro/frac combo:

Image
LISTEN

For this recording, other than starting and stopping things and turning off the ring mod at 4:00, it's all on autopilot but there are many things I can change to refresh/alter it.

Relevant to this thread, I'd point out that Batcha's Grilles (Mutable Grids) and BugBrand's DDSR dual shift register are the two brains in this. What they have in common is multiple outputs and varying amounts of repetition and variation. They just do it in completely different ways.

Mostly it's Grilles(Grids) & BinaryBlockVoltage driving E950, Time Machine (vocals). DDSR driving Twin Peak, Fairfield ring mod, Dual Delay, DIY reverb (plinks). You can't see them very well but there's also a 208 style fixed random voltages and a Wogglebug.

Additionally I'll bring an 11fu row consisting of BugBrand Chirper, Crossover Filter and PT Delay. I'll improvise on that now and then or leave it with an ominous shifting drone.

:nana:
Richard
https://www.pugix.com

FS: US only - Mutable Instruments Streams

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

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Post by pugix » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:31 pm

Another automatic music patch.

I am using two Starling Via META modules as looping envelope generators for two of the LFOs in two of the Quantussy Cells.

http://pugix.com/synth/clip-clop/
Richard
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FS: US only - Mutable Instruments Streams

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

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Post by cptnal » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:02 am

pugix wrote:Another automatic music patch.

I am using two Starling Via META modules as looping envelope generators for two of the LFOs in two of the Quantussy Cells.

http://pugix.com/synth/clip-clop/
Brilliant! :yay:

I haven't Quantussied for a while... :cloud:
Is it finished?
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:15 am

What would be your suggestion on a switching option, or better yet, a matrix, for these types of patches? I know what's available, and god forbid, I'm not just looking for name dropping of the Eurorack modules that can do such things.

I would appreciate the opinions of people who have used such modules and maybe some merits or downsides. For instance, I've been mulling over replacing my MXT9 module which I love and cherish, with a Matrixarchate, because the latter offers automation via triggers, which would be superb in a patch that self generates. On the other hand, I'm worried that the passive averaging of signals would be an issue - then again it might not be. I have no idea!

I haven't paid attention to how often I utilize summing or plain multiplying and switching.
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Post by pugix » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:15 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:What would be your suggestion on a switching option, or better yet, a matrix, for these types of patches? I know what's available, and god forbid, I'm not just looking for name dropping of the Eurorack modules that can do such things.

I would appreciate the opinions of people who have used such modules and maybe some merits or downsides. For instance, I've been mulling over replacing my MXT9 module which I love and cherish, with a Matrixarchate, because the latter offers automation via triggers, which would be superb in a patch that self generates. On the other hand, I'm worried that the passive averaging of signals would be an issue - then again it might not be. I have no idea!

I haven't paid attention to how often I utilize summing or plain multiplying and switching.
I've added a Tesseract 8X8 Buffered Matrix switch to my 'automatic music' box.

http://pugix.com/synth/tesseract-8x8-buffered-matrix/

I often make patches that feed back through sample & holds, and with this switch I can easily try different paths without having to move a bunch of cables. I like it because it's very simple. No user manual needed!
Richard
https://www.pugix.com

FS: US only - Mutable Instruments Streams

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:50 am

First off, thanks for bringing this module to my attention.

It's not dissimilar to the MTX9. Which is nice, straightforward and easy to set up and use. But if I am to try something different, I'd want to try something which can be controlled via CV/gate, to allow the patch to play itself, or at least automate it somewhat.
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Post by BananaPlug » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:12 pm

Briefly followup from a few posts back...

Halloween 2019. The final setup added a multipurpose BugBrand row with Chirper, filtering and delay and some chaos based modulation (not in the photo, Zlob Diode Chaos for typical LFO duties). The scene is a large porch on a street that gets lots of Halloween visitors. No gear is visible. Speaker location uses reflections to make the sound field more varied (the opposite of what you usually want).

This goes on for about three hours. Most visitors pass through in a few seconds but it can't be boring or annoying for my friends doling out candy or for grownups coming by to chat for a while. The sounds should be appealing but also unsettling to go with the creepy atmosphere.

It ran on autopilot most of the time. I'd vary things now and then to keep it fresh, then periodically I'd sit down and take it on a little trip for five or ten minutes. I like this way of working, both the preparation and the playing, and can imagine using it for other situations. Maybe for a long format MOTS.

Image

:banana:
(Sounds)--> :eek:
Misconstrued comments taken out of context may offend some readers

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Post by apbianco » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:26 pm

JakoGreyshire wrote:[video][/video]
I really like that.

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Post by lisa » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:26 pm

[video][/video]

SSF Entity Percussion triggered by a simple square wave LFO being sent to Metasonix RK3, ALM MCO out also going to tho the RK3 while the wave table is being modulated by a simple triangle LFO. The RK3 output is sent to the XAOC Belgrad set to the first mode and getting cutoff and balance modulated by simple triangle LFOs. The output from Belgrad is sent to Metasonix R56 and that's it. Slight changes throughout but quite monotonous overall.
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Post by windchill » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:55 am

3 Quantussy cells powering a self-playing generative piece.

VCOs are a Verbos Complex Oscillator, Instruo cs-l, Make Noise STO, and a Doepfer A-111-3. Also joining in are the Random Source Serge VCM and VCFQ.

(Audio on the video was recorded via an interface but is pretty sub-par. I will need to investigate...but it is what it is, and the patch is no more.... though I do have 40 mins of high-quality audio recorded for editing later)

[video][/video]

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Post by pugix » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:40 am

windchill wrote:3 Quantussy cells powering a self-playing generative piece.

VCOs are a Verbos Complex Oscillator, Instruo cs-l, Make Noise STO, and a Doepfer A-111-3. Also joining in are the Random Source Serge VCM and VCFQ.

(Audio on the video was recorded via an interface but is pretty sub-par. I will need to investigate...but it is what it is, and the patch is no more.... though I do have 40 mins of high-quality audio recorded for editing later)

[video][/video]
Nice! What modules did you use to make the Quantussy Cells?
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Post by windchill » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:47 am

pugix wrote: Nice! What modules did you use to make the Quantussy Cells?
I used MI stages (purchased with Quantussy Cells in mind) and a Batumi.

Since you're here, and are the instigator of Eurorack Quantussys, I have a question for you:

When I run all the Quantussy cells at very similar speeds, while using the Castle outputs for pitch, it becomes very apparent that the resulting melodies only ascend or descend. I've begun thinking about how to use Quantussy cells but with a more varied pitch output - like you would get by using an unsynchronised S&H on an LFO. Have I missed a trick here?

(The reason I run all 3 cells at very similar speeds is because I want all parts to be slow. Hope this all makes sense.)

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Post by pugix » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:59 am

windchill wrote:
pugix wrote: Nice! What modules did you use to make the Quantussy Cells?
I used MI stages (purchased with Quantussy Cells in mind) and a Batumi.

Since you're here, and are the instigator of Eurorack Quantussys, I have a question for you:

When I run all the Quantussy cells at very similar speeds, while using the Castle outputs for pitch, it becomes very apparent that the resulting melodies only ascend or descend. I've begun thinking about how to use Quantussy cells but with a more varied pitch output - like you would get by using an unsynchronised S&H on an LFO. Have I missed a trick here?

(The reason I run all 3 cells at very similar speeds is because I want all parts to be slow. Hope this all makes sense.)
You get ascending and descending pitches when sampling triangle waves. Try using ramp or sawtooth waves from some of the LFOs. If your LFO has voltage controlled wave shapes, try modulating those.

Another thing I've done with three cells is to mix together triangle waves from two of the LFOs before applying to the FM input of the third (repeated three times).

https://pugix.com/synth/three-body-problem/
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Post by pugix » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:01 pm

I discovered that somebody has made Quantussy Cells for VCV Rack! Anyone know about this? (I've often thought that a Quantussy Cell hardware module would be cool. If only P.B. would make one.)

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Post by windchill » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:16 pm

pugix wrote:
Another thing I've done with three cells is to mix together triangle waves from two of the LFOs before applying to the FM input of the third (repeated three times).

https://pugix.com/synth/three-body-problem/
There's something to play with! Many thanks.

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Post by PhineasFreak » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:31 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:First off, thanks for bringing this module to my attention.

It's not dissimilar to the MTX9. Which is nice, straightforward and easy to set up and use. But if I am to try something different, I'd want to try something which can be controlled via CV/gate, to allow the patch to play itself, or at least automate it somewhat.
bit late to the party, but, the RYO paths i concieved as a multi way sequential switch near matrix for such things - hence theres not just step forwardback cycling but also cv [as in saw/ramp/sqr/etc to cycle in weird patterns] as well as cv over reset, hold and the two cycle mode separatelyallowing the wonderful feedback patches and loops of signalls that make generative stuff work as it does.

might suit your purposes in an unexpected way?

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Post by PhineasFreak » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:08 am

advice needed:

having finally assembled all the parts to build my wonderful generative seq. 12U i have encountered only one thing unplanned for - this lark really seems to involve a lot of tuning sweetspots; is this normally the case and if so do i need more attenuators and trig delays than i think? it seems to be so but i made not be patching the simplest way yet...]

also, how do you ensure it doesnt play happily for 15mins then suddenly settle into a stable feedback state and go silent? i'd like to run iot as installation art for multiple days on end...

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Post by cptnal » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:54 pm

FWIW:

I reckon any rack will take a while to learn the subtleties of. I'd say give it time, work with what's there, and if you run into the same problem time and again look for a solution. You may have found a workaround before it gets to that point.

As to dead spots, one thing I've done is use either logic or an envelope follower, and maybe a comparator to detect when nothing is happening and fire a gate to a function that injects some movement back into the system. Takes a bit of tuning so it's not firing all the time. But maybe there's something you can add elsewhere that'll keep things moving, or look again at the system and try to work out what's causing it to stop.
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Post by PhineasFreak » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:57 pm

cptnal wrote:FWIW:

I reckon any rack will take a while to learn the subtleties of. I'd say give it time, work with what's there, and if you run into the same problem time and again look for a solution. You may have found a workaround before it gets to that point.
hmmm...

i spent from weds noon thru to fri night in studio working on same patch and i did repeatedly come across a need for more mults and more attenuators - maybe i need some extra 'basic utilities' i need a bank of 8 attenuators in maybe 8hp. i bet someone makes one...

as for mults - i already found my favs years ago and snap up every one i see - freq. central multipoles - 6hp has 4 groups of 4 mults, each with a red and a green parasitic led to show signal presence, strength and polarity - made my life so much easier countless times.

i always strive to only buy modules with built in cv/attenutation for evry function, but it seems the nature of using basic building blocks to construct larger system components leaves the inclusion of such control over everything impossible - i need utilities more than ever before!
cptnal wrote: As to dead spots, one thing I've done is use either logic or an envelope follower, and maybe a comparator to detect when nothing is happening and fire a gate to a function that injects some movement back into the system. Takes a bit of tuning so it's not firing all the time. But maybe there's something you can add elsewhere that'll keep things moving, or look again at the system and try to work out what's causing it to stop.
it seems to be when i accidentally create a feedback loop via a mult or a group of modules all modulating eachother that settle into a stable state - suddnely everything cancels out and i get dead air :<it can take a v long time to settle or ocur in a ridiculously complex patch after many hours noodling and suddenly... BAM - whole things dead and its untraceable idea spaghetti

edit: forgot to add - i already recorded useable material from the patch and its the first real one i've had the opportnity to build from scratch using building blocks like comparators and flipflops etc.

there will be a new tune posted here wjen i manage to finish it and avoid the distraction of worrying the damn synth will grow sentient and sue me for royalties from the music _IT_ wrote...
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