Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: lisa, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
cptnal
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3586
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 am
Location: People's Republic of Scotland

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by cptnal » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:10 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:05 am
Disclaimer: I worked on this design with ADDAC System.
Allow me to thank you personally. It's a great module! :guinness:

User avatar
oberdada
Common Wiggler
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:06 pm

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by oberdada » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:53 am

PhineasFreak wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:44 pm
ok, i give in - why s&h/t&h? i see em used in damn near every patch in this thread and i dont get why - are they anything different to any other shaped modulation source?
If you don't have a sequencer or other source of constant voltages a S/H is an easy way to take a changing signal and keep it steady for a while. I think it's for people who can't stand music made entirely out of glissandi. And they are a convenient way to slow down fast signals. Use it to sample an audio oscillator at a rate unrelated to its frequency and it becomes a random generator. Same reasoning applies to shift registers.

User avatar
PhineasFreak
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1929
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:49 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by PhineasFreak » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:48 pm

oberdada wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:53 am
If you don't have a sequencer or other source of constant voltages a S/H is an easy way to take a changing signal and keep it steady for a while. I think it's for people who can't stand music made entirely out of glissandi. And they are a convenient way to slow down fast signals. Use it to sample an audio oscillator at a rate unrelated to its frequency and it becomes a random generator. Same reasoning applies to shift registers.
why would i not just use thigs like omparators combined with other switches and bits of logic to produce gates and steady 'pich'/modulation voltages? that gives a very controllable sequencer like output but still able to evolve/be part of a greater generative patch
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:05 am
PhineasFreak wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:44 pm
ok, i give in - why s&h/t&h? i see em used in damn near every patch in this thread and i dont get why - are they anything different to any other shaped modulation source?
If I had to put it in the simplest or most abstract terms possible, I'd say that S&H/T&Hs are the memory part of these patches. In a generative patch you want things that have happened to influence things that will happen. In order to do that you need a type of memory to recall the "what happened" and repurpose it for future use. That's where S&H come in: they sample a value of something at some point in time, to be later used at a point in time in the future.

That allows a lot of things to take place, amongst which some self reference or semblance of repetition, which ties up various aspects of these patches together, and gives some cohesion. The difference between chaos and randomness. Depends on the patch of course.

Hope that helped!
i'm still lost :<
https://thomaswulfe.bandcamp.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/ylem-records/
http://www.soundcloud.com/best-of-ylem/
http://www.soundcloud.com/waxcide/
http://thomaswulfe.muffwiggler.com/
http://ljunggrenaudio.com/
http://waxcide.bandcamp.com/
Just remember what Phineas would say... "eurorack can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no eurorack". - bkbirge/

electricanada
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 am
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by electricanada » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:18 pm

PhineasFreak wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:48 pm
oberdada wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:53 am
If you don't have a sequencer or other source of constant voltages a S/H is an easy way to take a changing signal and keep it steady for a while. I think it's for people who can't stand music made entirely out of glissandi. And they are a convenient way to slow down fast signals. Use it to sample an audio oscillator at a rate unrelated to its frequency and it becomes a random generator. Same reasoning applies to shift registers.
why would i not just use thigs like omparators combined with other switches and bits of logic to produce gates and steady 'pich'/modulation voltages? that gives a very controllable sequencer like output but still able to evolve/be part of a greater generative patch
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:05 am
PhineasFreak wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:44 pm
ok, i give in - why s&h/t&h? i see em used in damn near every patch in this thread and i dont get why - are they anything different to any other shaped modulation source?
If I had to put it in the simplest or most abstract terms possible, I'd say that S&H/T&Hs are the memory part of these patches. In a generative patch you want things that have happened to influence things that will happen. In order to do that you need a type of memory to recall the "what happened" and repurpose it for future use. That's where S&H come in: they sample a value of something at some point in time, to be later used at a point in time in the future.

That allows a lot of things to take place, amongst which some self reference or semblance of repetition, which ties up various aspects of these patches together, and gives some cohesion. The difference between chaos and randomness. Depends on the patch of course.

Hope that helped!
i'm still lost :<
S&H a sequencer’ s output using a different gate pattern - new melody from the old sequence. Super useful trick. S&H an LFO output = stepped melody from a smooth cv.
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

User avatar
oberdada
Common Wiggler
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:06 pm

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by oberdada » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:42 am

PhineasFreak wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:48 pm
why would i not just use thigs like omparators combined with other switches and bits of logic to produce gates and steady 'pich'/modulation voltages? that gives a very controllable sequencer like output but still able to evolve/be part of a greater generative patch
That's a good patch idea if you have a few comparators or switches etc. But I think the essence of self generating techniques is this balancing between the unforeseen, complex and uncontrollable on the one hand, and the deliberate shaping and control of the sound on the other.

tardishead
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by tardishead » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:40 pm

Can anybody recommend any other generative "engines". Krell is the obvious and is a rabbit hole of endless potential, tried Quantussy which is great, splitting LFOS and other modulation CVs with comparators and switches etc, love Allen Strange exercises - haven't tried Richard's Magic Wand technique which he mentioned earlier in the thread - I've been meaning to do that one. I like to find more musical applications for these techniques. Combining these with Rate Of Change patches really opens things up - wasn't aware of that one until the Captain recommended it to me. I just wondered if there were any more "engines" out there to study/look into?
You can never have enough Sample/Holds...........

User avatar
cptnal
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3586
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 am
Location: People's Republic of Scotland

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by cptnal » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:27 pm

Two others off the top of my head:

Dream Machine, also from Strange. Sequencer mixed with random.

Entropical Paradise, Douglas Leedy. Also described in Strange, and in our own pelsea's book. Two sequences modulating each other.

I'm deliberately not describing them in detail so's not to deprive you of the fun of searching them out. :cloud:

User avatar
Paranormal Patroler
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 10703
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: the Terminal beach

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:04 pm

cptnal wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:27 pm

I'm deliberately not describing them in detail so's not to deprive you of the fun of searching them out. :cloud:
Maybe it's high time I added my Stoic patch in these lists? It's the most minimalist of all generative patches I've come up with. I think I need to post a video example, this is the proper company for it :hihi: .
All rights reserved; all wrongs reversed.

User avatar
cptnal
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3586
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 am
Location: People's Republic of Scotland

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by cptnal » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:28 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:04 pm
cptnal wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:27 pm

I'm deliberately not describing them in detail so's not to deprive you of the fun of searching them out. :cloud:
Maybe it's high time I added my Stoic patch in these lists? It's the most minimalist of all generative patches I've come up with. I think I need to post a video example, this is the proper company for it :hihi: .
Even the name has me intrigued. Breath appropriately bated... :hyper:

tardishead
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by tardishead » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:01 pm

cptnal wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:27 pm
Two others off the top of my head:

Dream Machine, also from Strange. Sequencer mixed with random.

Entropical Paradise, Douglas Leedy. Also described in Strange, and in our own pelsea's book. Two sequences modulating each other.

I'm deliberately not describing them in detail so's not to deprive you of the fun of searching them out. :cloud:
Yeh those 2 pieces and the whole Strange book got me hooked on generative to begin with. I'm hungry for more
Please bring the Stoic

User avatar
BenA718
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:09 am
Location: NYC

Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by BenA718 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:09 pm

electricanada wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:46 pm
BenA718 wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:03 pm
I made this patch based on the LFO section of Patch & Tweak. It creates a rather swirly chord that has notes pulsing and fading in and out; sounds rather cool!

It uses 4 VCOs (SE Quadnic) tuned to a chord and feeding into a VCA. I take 3 trangle LFOs from the Modbox on 3 different phases and patch them into Vector Space and then take 4 of the outputs and plug them into a Quad VCA; this opens and closes the VCAs at different times, rates and phase. The mix out from the Quad VCA goes into a Doepfer SEM filter. Another output from the Vector Space goes into the CV input on the filter. The LPF output goes through a strymon AA.1 and BOSS RE-20 Space Echo, then into the Sound Stage. There is an aux send on my mixing desk that also has a BOSS RV-500 added.

Sounds like this:

Looks like this:Vector Drone.png

http://editor.patchandtweak.com/patch/244
Nice one. What’s making the melody?
The melodic synth is a Yamaha TX7 into a TC Electronic MIMIQ and BOSS rV-500.

User avatar
pugix
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3345
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:23 am
Location: Asheville, NC
Contact:

Post by pugix » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:10 pm

I'm still doing quantussy cells. Here, I enhanced each cell with an added envelope generator that is triggered by the LFO and CV'd by the same S&H that controls the LFO frequency (the CV has to be inverted into the EG, since higher voltage means slower fall rate). I added a Vult Freak filter recently; here it is in Resonant Comb filter mode (I should add that to the post). The Tesseract Modular 8X8 Buffered Matrix lets me try out different permutations of the quantussy cells without having to repatch.

https://pugix.com/synth/automatic-freak/
Richard
http://www.pugix.com

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

User avatar
cptnal
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3586
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 am
Location: People's Republic of Scotland

Re:

Post by cptnal » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:51 pm

pugix wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:10 pm
I'm still doing quantussy cells. Here, I enhanced each cell with an added envelope generator that is triggered by the LFO and CV'd by the same S&H that controls the LFO frequency (the CV has to be inverted into the EG, since higher voltage means slower fall rate). I added a Vult Freak filter recently; here it is in Resonant Comb filter mode (I should add that to the post). The Tesseract Modular 8X8 Buffered Matrix lets me try out different permutations of the quantussy cells without having to repatch.

https://pugix.com/synth/automatic-freak/
Scared the cats, which is the acid test of a good patch. :tu:

electricanada
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 am
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re:

Post by electricanada » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:50 pm

pugix wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:10 pm
I'm still doing quantussy cells. Here, I enhanced each cell with an added envelope generator that is triggered by the LFO and CV'd by the same S&H that controls the LFO frequency (the CV has to be inverted into the EG, since higher voltage means slower fall rate). I added a Vult Freak filter recently; here it is in Resonant Comb filter mode (I should add that to the post). The Tesseract Modular 8X8 Buffered Matrix lets me try out different permutations of the quantussy cells without having to repatch.

https://pugix.com/synth/automatic-freak/
Nice. I love when they seem alive.
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”