Nord Modular thread

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: lisa, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

Post by rrooyyccee » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:42 pm

Whoa! Interesting patch. I'm guess the constant at 64 because that's where the "middle" of an audio signal is?

I've noticed greater stability when using the comparator module with a constant (actually, also right in the middle at 0 between -64 and 64). I wonder if this is doing something similar.

I'll try this idea tonight. Haven't seen in anywhere else.

User avatar
chiavere
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:12 pm
Contact:

Post by chiavere » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:36 pm

I've been enjoying my G2x, especially for generative stuff (and boy, the mutator bank Palle Dahlstedt invented for Nord continues to be an amazing creative tool) have been trying to incorporating using it with hardware modular (example 1 below uses analog modular filtering of G2), and it really does gel really nicely - still such a powerful and wonderful tool -- and I recently got a little Windows netbook w/ touchscreen to run it off -- great for touring, and fun to draw the patch connections onscreen with a pen -- here are a couple patches I've made:

https://soundcloud.com/freemovementarts ... -july-2017

https://soundcloud.com/freemovementarts ... 6-may-2017

https://soundcloud.com/freemovementarts ... y18may2017

User avatar
milkshake
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:19 am

Post by milkshake » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:02 am

rrooyyccee wrote:Whoa! Interesting patch. I'm guess the constant at 64 because that's where the "middle" of an audio signal is?

I've noticed greater stability when using the comparator module with a constant (actually, also right in the middle at 0 between -64 and 64). I wonder if this is doing something similar.

I'll try this idea tonight. Haven't seen in anywhere else.
I invented the patch years ago, but I don't fully understand how the patch works, it was just trial and error.
Maybe experts can chip in and explain.
Shall I ... blablabla ... to thee.

The more you pay for something, the less likely you are to critise it.

ContraPoints

pontrumlee
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:03 am
Location: Canada

Post by pontrumlee » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:26 am

Nice LPGlike sounds.... :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
Hello, my name is Pon, nice to meet you

User avatar
Rex Coil 7
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6274
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Captain Of Outer Space

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:58 pm

pontrumlee wrote:Nice LPGlike sounds.... :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
"LPG" ... Liquified Propane Gas?
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

User avatar
Rex Coil 7
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6274
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Captain Of Outer Space

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:24 am

HOLY SHITAMIS! AND DAYUM TOO!

[video][/video]
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

Post by rrooyyccee » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:04 am

I tried the suggest patch and it works! Most reliable trigger yet.
Attached of a screenshot:
This is a vocoder expecting its sequencer to be triggered by Input A and its resonator by Input B. A primitive polyphonic sequencer play a formula when advanced by Input A.
Image

User avatar
milkshake
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:19 am

Post by milkshake » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:24 am

:sb:
Shall I ... blablabla ... to thee.

The more you pay for something, the less likely you are to critise it.

ContraPoints

rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

polyphony q

Post by rrooyyccee » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:56 pm

It seems that polyphony limits are not increased if other slots are empty. Is this correct?

I have a patch in slot A with currently a max of 4 voices. If I empty slots B,C and D...should I expect to see a bump in polyphony of the patch in Slot A? Some posts I've read suggest that...but I'm not noticing any such thing.

I can live with it for now, but it would be nice to see more voices without purchasing the expansion card.

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:14 am

Turning those other three slots 'off' (no lit LED on the B,C,D slot buttons on the front panel) is the same as 'emptying' those slots.

There is important info in the user manual about how the DSP calculates the number of voices available in a particular patch in a given situation (depending on the number of voices 'requested', depending on whether other slots are also being used, etc.).

It's also important to spend some time getting familiar with all of the various patching techniques for keeping the DSP% as low as possible when patching, to increase the polyphony. Mostly by using the 'smallest' type of osc/filter/etc. that will do what you need in that particular patch.

But I tend to use the NM (and the G2) as big-ass complex polysynths rather than monophonic experimental noise boxes or sequencey devices, so for me, the DSP expansion card is a must-have for both synths. If you use it the same way, you'll probably find the same thing. If you want to make huge complex patches and play them with eight voice polyphony, get the expansion card. It's a bargain.

User avatar
Rex Coil 7
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6274
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Captain Of Outer Space

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:25 am

ROLI SEABOARD BLOCK

It's late, my brain is mud ... or maybe oatmeal .... mudmeal? .... oatmud? So I'm having difficulty figuring this out on my own.

:help:

I want this thing to work with the Nord Micro Modular ... all of expression signals. I don't need wireless, so needing to use a cable would be fine (better, actually). Kenton makes a great USB/MIDI host adapter for that:

** notes/pitch.
** left/right pitch bend (full length "ribbon" thingy).
** finger wiggle vibrato.
** finger-sliding-up-key.
** pressure/AT.
** velocity.
** release velocity.

I don't care if the original functions of the SEABOARD do their original tricks, I just want to know if all of the mega-expressive modulation sources may be recognized by the Nord Micro Modular .... even if they ended up being plain old MIDI sources that had to be assigned to functions within the Nord.

I already checked on the compatibility between Windows 10 (and 7 for that matter) and the ROLI configuration/set up program ... and it's a 100% yes. So that part is all good.

Please say this will work, I want to use one of these Seaboard gadgets with as much of my synth rig as possible. Using it with hardware MIDI synths and VSTs are one thing, but just imagine using it with a Nord Modular ... or connecting one of them up to a Kenton USB/MIDI host ---> then into a Kenton Pro 2000 MkII MIDI-to-CV converter ---> and ultimately into a modular!

Dayum son! :sb:

Anyhow, it will work 100% with a Nord Micro Modular ... right? Say yes dammit! :msnsmack:

[video][/video]

(below) this video contains setup information which may prove helpful in determining whether or not the Seaboard and the Nord Micro Modular can be made to work together with full functionality.

[video][/video]


(below) This video is just a fun little jam.



[video][/video]
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

User avatar
Corrupt
Common Wiggler
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:34 am

Post by Corrupt » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:14 am

It will work but only in straightforward MIDI mode. Meaning only one aftertouch value (channel) and one z/depth-axis MIDI cc. In practice it's a little awkward and for me, at least, basically unplayable. I've gotten used to using the Roli with plugins and synths that can handle polyphonic aftertouch and/or MPE. Adapting back to single MIDI channel mode is now a bridge too far. :/

User avatar
Rex Coil 7
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6274
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Captain Of Outer Space

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:07 am

Corrupt wrote:It will work but only in straightforward MIDI mode. Meaning only one aftertouch value (channel) and one z/depth-axis MIDI cc. In practice it's a little awkward and for me, at least, basically unplayable. I've gotten used to using the Roli with plugins and synths that can handle polyphonic aftertouch and/or MPE. Adapting back to single MIDI channel mode is now a bridge too far. :/
100% agreed. I just spent several hours researching that thing. Seems to me that outside of it's own element (it's own soft synth) it's really nothing to shout about. In fact, with all of the niggles and hang ups it would probably end up being flung across the street, hitting the neighbor's mailbox and exploding into a hundred fifty pieces after my frustration level with it reached critical mass.

I'm deeply disappointed ... the potential is very exciting ... however it appears the reality is quite dull.

Oh well. On to my next infatuation ..... MIDI FIGHTERS!

The MIDI Fighters "3D" and "Twisters" controllers look very nice, especially for Ableton! Might go well with the Push1 and Akai APC40MkII I just got in.

:tu:
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

Post by rrooyyccee » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:56 am

Ok figured out voice allocation. It is indeed dynamic, drawing on other DSPs to add voices. So a patch using 97% of a dsp will indeed get 4 voices and only 4 voices.

There is a quantum effect. My error was expecting # voices to be a linear correlation with complexity. If you have a patch that uses 55% of a dsp you get 4 voices. Once the patch dips below 50% it jumps to 8 voices, assuming you have no other patches are active, you do not own the dsp expansion, and everything we suspected about Trump remains true.

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:25 am

Yup, each voice in a poly patch has to 'fit' within one DSP chip. So if the patch DSP load is over 50% of a DSP chip per voice, you get four voices (on an unexpaned NM). If the % drops below 50%, each DSP can provide twp voices so you get eight vocies. If you drop below 33% each chip can do three voices so you get 12 voices etc.

For using the NM as a polysynth (that totally runs circles around nearly every other poysynth), you gotta get the expander card.

rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

Post by rrooyyccee » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:33 pm

Image

This is my model of the Roland TR808 cymbal. It has some nice characteristics, such as is response to velocity, which allows for some limited expression.

It is not quite there though. Clearly not as nice sounding as say, a 606 cymbal.

Any pointers?

I'm not sure I'm using the ring-mod correctly.

User avatar
SmartBits
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:46 am
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Post by SmartBits » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:35 am

rrooyyccee wrote:This is my model of the Roland TR808 cymbal. It has some nice characteristics, such as is response to velocity, which allows for some limited expression.

It is not quite there though. Clearly not as nice sounding as say, a 606 cymbal.

Any pointers?

I'm not sure I'm using the ring-mod correctly.
Haven't tried it myself (it's from the Dutch Synth Forum), but this might be what you're looking for:

Image

I believe the SOS synth secrets article also gives good pointers:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... -synthesis

User avatar
aethyr
Common Wiggler
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Over the edges

Post by aethyr » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:12 pm

Dave Peck wrote: ... get the expansion card. It's a bargain.
I wish I could find an expansion card!

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:23 pm

aethyr wrote:
Dave Peck wrote: ... get the expansion card. It's a bargain.
I wish I could find an expansion card!
Yeah, unless Tony at Encore Electronics decides to make another production run of his after-market DSP Expansion cards (not likely), I think your best chance for getting one would be to keep watching for someone who is selling a NM that has the expansion card, buy that unit, and then sell your NM that doesn't have the expansion. Good luck!

rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

Post by rrooyyccee » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:36 pm

I wonder if anybody could help me with this:
I would like to replicate the behavior of the chord mode in the TX81z in the Nord Modular.

The logic seems to be something like: if you press C, then C, E, G are activated.
If you press D, then D, F, A are activated.
If your press #D, then D, #D, F#, and G# are activated.

Is that possible?

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:02 pm

rrooyyccee wrote:I wonder if anybody could help me with this:
I would like to replicate the behavior of the chord mode in the TX81z in the Nord Modular.

The logic seems to be something like: if you press C, then C, E, G are activated.
If you press D, then D, F, A are activated.
If your press #D, then D, #D, F#, and G# are activated.

Is that possible?
Yup I bet you can do that. I would think this will require use of a few DC offset modules and 'note detect' modules....

1. Set up some DC offset modules (patched to pitch mod inputs on some oscs) so that each one produces an output that raises the pitch of an osc to the desired chord note. You'll need to set up a separate group of offsets for each different chord layout.

2. use a 'note detect' module and some switches / crossfaders so that when you play a given note, the note detect module for that particular note will switch the offsets on or off and send the correct additional pitch amount signals to the different oscs's pitch mod inputs.

There's probably other ways to do it but that's the first idea that occurs to me.

EDIT - perhaps an easier way - send each Note Detect module's output through a S/H that is clocked from the KYBD Gate (so the note detect value sustains until the next note is played) and then send the S/H output's sustaining 'DC' signal through a set of simple attenuators ("Control Mixer" modules work best, least DSP usage) and trim the levels of the sustaining signals to create the desired amount of pitch mod sent to each of the oscs - some chords will need an extra half-note for one osc and an extra minor third for another osc, other chords will need different values.

rrooyyccee
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 am

Post by rrooyyccee » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:50 pm

Thanks Dave for the patch ideas.

I tried over the weekend to use elements of your patch idea to reproduce the chord mode of the tx81z. I had some trouble. It seems like I'll need to use a Note detector to activate a conditional logic. If note = x, then it will transpose the keyboard cv signal up or down a certain number of steps. If note Y, some other set of values.

So, as I understand it I am going to modify keyboard CV on condition X by an amount Y, depending on the note.

I think I understand the sample and hold idea: kind of holding the value of the transposed set of notes.

I don't quite follow what modules will be the "workspace" for the note transformation. Seems like a VCA is what could be used by this, with the amount of amplification of the Keyboard CV by some amount Y. But I don't see a VCA like module, outside of the ADSR modules. But these modify a control signal by an envelope.

Also, with potentially 12 different notes in a complete octave, I'm guessing I need to use 11 or so logic modules? Each logic module is binary, so it would go down the line looking from, say, C1 to C2? I picture 11 logic modules right in a row, getting fed by the 12 note detectors?

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:26 pm

Well, I haven't tried these ideas yet, but I think I have some tips -

I'm picturing that you would use several note detector modules within the patch. If you want a particular osc to play a whole-step sharp when a C# is played on the keyboard, you'll need to set one of the note detectors to C# so it produces a logic pulse when that key is pressed.

You don't need a VCA (but for future reference, those are the "GAIN CONTROL" module, found under the "Mixer" tab. See page 148 of the manual). You're not modifying/amplifying/attenuating the actual Keyboard CV signal that is being sent to the oscs. That signal gets sent as is, and you're just adding some additional DC signal to it via a separate osc CV input and only on certain notes.

I was suggesting you just attenuate the level of the logic pulse from the note detect module, reducing the 'height' of the pulse (you could use a low-DSP usage CONTROL MIXER module under the CONTROL tab, or any of several modules in the MIXER tab that can be used to attenuate a signal, like a LEVMULT or an AMPLIFIER module) or you can just attenuate it at the destination by connecting it to a spare pitch mod input on the osc and adjusting the mod amount knob. The most DSP-efficient way to do that is to use a MASTER OSC paired with some kind of SLAVE OSC.

The S/H idea may be needed so that this modified pulse from the note detect doesn't drop to zero when the key is released, causing the pitch to drop to the 'normal' note. It holds the logic pulse high until that same voice gets used again.

But there may be lots of other ways to do all of this. For example, why not just put several quantizer modules in the patch, each set to include only those notes that you want a particular osc to play, and use the KYBD NOTE signal as the input to the quantizer? This should cause the quantizers to 'remap' the incoming notes to only those notes you want a given osc to play. Each osc gets it's own quantizer and it's own set of included/excluded notes.

You just need to turn OFF the "KBT" buttons on the oscs so the keyboard control signal is not sent to the oscs twice (once through this 'hard wired' switch and again through the KYBD NOTE + quantizer).

User avatar
Rex Coil 7
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6274
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Captain Of Outer Space

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:24 pm

I checked the TX81Z manual on this. I used to own one of those and this subject rang a few bells. Here's a direct copy of what the manual has to say about the "chords function"

(quoting)

First you select the "Key On Note" which will be the note that you can attach up to four other notes to.

Now press up to four notes on the keyboard. When you release all the notes the new chord notes will be displayed. If less than four notes are pressed, an asterisk fills the empty space. In this way, you can specify up to 12 notes and a four note chord for each. You can also use the DEC/INC to specify the chord notes within a +/- 2 octave range. The blinking cursor will appear when you press DEC/INC.


(end quote)

To me, this says your may only select up to 12 notes that will have an (up to) four note chord attached to each of those 12 notes. In other words, what it does not do is allow you to set up a chord that will play on every note you press. It's not like a "one note chord" function found on many other synths. It allows you to pick only 12 notes or less as "key on" notes. Each of those 12 "key on" notes may have up to 4 notes assigned to them. If you play one of the notes that was not set up as a "key on note" to play a chord, you will not hear a chord, you'll only hear that one note.

So in short you can pick up to 12 notes that may have 4 notes assigned to them. But only 12 notes (max) may have a pre-selected chord attached to them. Any notes not selected as "Key on" notes will not play a chord.

Only (up to) 12 preselected "key on" notes may have pre-determined "chords" assigned to them. Each chord may be completely different from any of the other chords. So you get 12 trigger notes, and each trigger note may have it's own preselected 4 note chord assigned to it.

Maybe that explanation will help to push the patching ideas ahead?

Then again, everyone may have already been fully aware of how that function works.

Just trying to help here.

:nod:
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:57 pm

Yup, if I'm picturing this right, these suggestion should be a way to get the NM to replicate that TZ behavior.

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”