Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

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Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:44 am

Can't wait for the MKIII


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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Ras Thavas » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:03 pm

Thanks Robotopsy, great video. I've grown to love both my Mk I and Mk II Time Sefaris.

I was curious, is the rumor now that there is going to be a Mk III Time Sefari? Scott had previously said he thought the hardware on the Mk II TS was good enough, but would revisit the software. At any rate I'd be happy with any of those outcomes.

Last question to Harvestman readers, did anyone ever figure how to add gate inputs to the Mk I Sound of Thunder like the Mk II has? The Mk I glitch points are quite different than the MkII, being able to gate them on and off would be really useful.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:50 pm

Thanx

I don't know what will happen with a MKII ? :despair:
I do hope there will be a new version, with less clicks and with MKIII preset management.

And I'd go any time with an expander with gate inputs for the TS1.
Ras Thavas wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:03 pm
Thanks Robotopsy, great video. I've grown to love both my Mk I and Mk II Time Sefaris.

I was curious, is the rumor now that there is going to be a Mk III Time Sefari? Scott had previously said he thought the hardware on the Mk II TS was good enough, but would revisit the software. At any rate I'd be happy with any of those outcomes.

Last question to Harvestman readers, did anyone ever figure how to add gate inputs to the Mk I Sound of Thunder like the Mk II has? The Mk I glitch points are quite different than the MkII, being able to gate them on and off would be really useful.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Ras Thavas » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:46 pm

The funny thing Robotopsy is I was always in the "less clicks" camp for many years, but last year it just "clicked" for me, I really like the character the various clicks, glitches, and low fidelity-ness can give. Still, I could see it would be nice to be able to start without all of that, and then gracefully degrade the audio when you want, so hopefully a Mk III is in the offing.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by gringostar » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Slight correction to the video, if you dig into old posts about the MK1 there was a feedback input mod that Scott performed for a period of time if you sent in your module to him that functions exactly like the feedback input of the MK2.

This was a nice surprise to get when I got my MK1 from someone here a few years ago.

Other than that fantastic video as always. When I have mine racked (it's either the TS MK1 or Lubadh until I get a larger rack) I find it great as a CV recorder and mangler, super lofi delay, and it excels as an audio source to feed Rings however the section on using it for granular synthases was something I've never considered before so thanks for that cool tip.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by grizzleb » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:19 pm

I would like to get a tyme sefari, but they are very hard to come by second hand, so i hope that a mk iii comes to be

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:17 am

Didn't know there was a MOD for the MK1. Scott is so busy pretty sure bothering him with that must be a waste of time. I'd rather know that he is working on new surprises. :yay:

I wonder if someone could post some pictures of the mod :oops:

gringostar wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:13 pm
Slight correction to the video, if you dig into old posts about the MK1 there was a feedback input mod that Scott performed for a period of time if you sent in your module to him that functions exactly like the feedback input of the MK2.

This was a nice surprise to get when I got my MK1 from someone here a few years ago.

Other than that fantastic video as always. When I have mine racked (it's either the TS MK1 or Lubadh until I get a larger rack) I find it great as a CV recorder and mangler, super lofi delay, and it excels as an audio source to feed Rings however the section on using it for granular synthases was something I've never considered before so thanks for that cool tip.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:26 am

Great video and such an absurd endeavor to invest so much time and effort in two discontinued modules! I like it when you do this from time to time. Also the remixes really "rock" and the references to the original artists have been very inspiring - having a nice breakfast with the Manorexia album right now. :goo:

Though, while it does help making the decision wether I am more after the MKI or the MKII (it's the MKI, I guess - sound versus SoT features) the only downside is that it will be harder now to find one. I am in constant sorrow to miss an oportunity and could beat myself up for not investing more into the legacy modules back then. Or at least when they were more present on the used market for quite good prices about two years ago before the MKIII line started some kind of a new Harvest...I thought I could replicate it with modern delays and bitcrushers, but it did not really work out like the real thing. :bang:

Hopefully it will motivate Scott to work on a MKIII. His remark about the hardware still being up to date was in 2017 or 2018 I think, so there might be a chance. Presets and being able to choose between prestine and vintage sound quality would be a dream. Though I thought that the granular sampler thing would become the heir of the Sefaris throne.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:30 am

The versions are so different from each other that I wanted to create some sort of an archive on each of the modules, even if they are now extremely rare.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by gringostar » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:58 pm

robotopsy wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:17 am
Didn't know there was a MOD for the MK1. Scott is so busy pretty sure bothering him with that must be a waste of time. I'd rather know that he is working on new surprises. :yay:

I wonder if someone could post some pictures of the mod :oops:
Here's the front panel with the feedback in mod. Don't want to risk taking the panel off since I don't want to mess up the pots but there looks to be a single red wire that's going to a connector on the PCB as well.

Image

Here's the post Scott made about what it does in a really old thread.
governor blacksnake wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:09 pm
I'm working on those sefaris this week!

The upgrade currently consists of the added feedback input jack (normalled to the wet output, feeds through the attenuator pot.)

It also includes some improvements to the audio input hardware that greatly improve the stability of short loops as well as better sampling quality.

The "new model" tyme sefari that will be released after NAMM is a completely different design.
And found the thread where he describes how to do the mod.
governor blacksnake wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:15 pm
The jack is for a feedback input that goes directly into the feedback attenuator above it. When nothing is patched in the Sefari's delayed signal is fed back through this pot. Use with the DLY OUT jack for a fully patchable feedback loop.

Looking at the back of the control board, cut the trace going into the rightmost pin of the feedback pot (the one that isnt connected to ground.) Connect this pin to the "tip" terminal of the jack you will be installing. Connect the switch terminal of the jack to the center pin of the toggle switch below this pot. This is what I do when you send the module to me for the upgrade, which also includes a nice new hole in the panel with the jack installed where it's supposed to go.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:26 pm

:hail: :hail: :hail:

This is the unobtanium Holy Grail of all TS MK1

gringostar wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:58 pm
robotopsy wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:17 am
Didn't know there was a MOD for the MK1. Scott is so busy pretty sure bothering him with that must be a waste of time. I'd rather know that he is working on new surprises. :yay:

I wonder if someone could post some pictures of the mod :oops:
Here's the front panel with the feedback in mod. Don't want to risk taking the panel off since I don't want to mess up the pots but there looks to be a single red wire that's going to a connector on the PCB as well.

Image

Here's the post Scott made about what it does in a really old thread.
governor blacksnake wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:09 pm
I'm working on those sefaris this week!

The upgrade currently consists of the added feedback input jack (normalled to the wet output, feeds through the attenuator pot.)

It also includes some improvements to the audio input hardware that greatly improve the stability of short loops as well as better sampling quality.

The "new model" tyme sefari that will be released after NAMM is a completely different design.
And found the thread where he describes how to do the mod.
governor blacksnake wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:15 pm
The jack is for a feedback input that goes directly into the feedback attenuator above it. When nothing is patched in the Sefari's delayed signal is fed back through this pot. Use with the DLY OUT jack for a fully patchable feedback loop.

Looking at the back of the control board, cut the trace going into the rightmost pin of the feedback pot (the one that isnt connected to ground.) Connect this pin to the "tip" terminal of the jack you will be installing. Connect the switch terminal of the jack to the center pin of the toggle switch below this pot. This is what I do when you send the module to me for the upgrade, which also includes a nice new hole in the panel with the jack installed where it's supposed to go.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by jwm » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:35 am

awesome vid!

also...for those who may be unaware, if you have a TS mk2, but don't have the 8hp for a SOT mk2, but still would like access to the pitch bending features, it is possible to attach a SOT mk1 to a TS mk2 (or make your own as i did - with some pointers scott graciously provided me)


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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by vidret » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:06 pm

jwm wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:35 am
awesome vid!

also...for those who may be unaware, if you have a TS mk2, but don't have the 8hp for a SOT mk2, but still would like access to the pitch bending features, it is possible to attach a SOT mk1 to a TS mk2 (or make your own as i did - with some pointers scott graciously provided me)

this is great! :hail: got pics of the back of the TS for the mods?

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by jwm » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:07 am

vidret wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:06 pm
got pics of the back of the TS for the mods?
well, i can't find my stupid screwdriver, so i made a little illustrated diagram. not really sure the extra ground connection is needed there, but i ran out of LED leg clippings to use as the bus bar connections to all 8 switches, and there are two ground pins, so it was just cleaner to fill up a 2x5 header with 10 wires. at any rate, it works..
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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:54 pm

Great thanx
Now we got to find a way to have some gate inputs for the MK1: ASOT

:hmm: :waah:

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:02 pm

Looking at the wiring I wondered if it should not "just work" when siple switches do the same thing the full expander does with switches and inputs? :hmm: :mrgreen:

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by vidret » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:00 am

jwm wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:07 am
vidret wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:06 pm
got pics of the back of the TS for the mods?
well, i can't find my stupid screwdriver, so i made a little illustrated diagram. not really sure the extra ground connection is needed there, but i ran out of LED leg clippings to use as the bus bar connections to all 8 switches, and there are two ground pins, so it was just cleaner to fill up a 2x5 header with 10 wires. at any rate, it works..
wow, i didn't think it could be that simple :lol: huge thanks, might try this when I have the time, always looked twice when an expander shows up

how does the 12 bit u-law sound on the TS MK2? Does that work via the SOT mk1 expander at all btw, that might only be the mk2 :hmm:

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 am

Thankfully I eventually managed to find a Tyme Sefari MKII with Expander and after playing with it for a week or so I found so much great sounds coming out of it and interesting ways it can do things to sound.

There are just two things thing I don't really understand and one of them I also find hard to at least somehow predict, as sometimes I would prefer being able to prevent it from occuring. Carefully watching the available videos I found some hints of this behaviour in them too but mostly not. So I wonder if others are experiencing it too or if it is just me being dumb or my TS being ill.

First thing is quite simple: When in stereo mode there is basically near to no feedback occuring, neither with the negative nor positive setting.

Then, not so simple to understand, when switching or gating the different modes on the SOT (while looping or operating as a delay), parts of the recorded audio are replaced by digital (white-ish) noise. I am not talking about the four circuit bend switches, also not about the "interesting distortions" resutling from playing audio back in a format it was not recorded in. It is just plain digital white noise without the recorded audio being there anymore and also quite loud.

It seems to change a bit with all the variations of using the audio format modes and the pitch mode. I tried to find a pattern bur couldn't. Sometimes it affects the whole sample, sometimes only a part of it. Sometimes it is possible to switch from one format to another and enjoy how it affects the audio, sometimes it just ends as white noise. It does not seem to be related to, say, switching from 8 Bit to 12 Bit or from lin do log, or to pitch being active or not. And it seems that under some unknown circumstances it also occurs when using the switches or gates on the main module. Sometimes the audio seems to be fully replaced, sometimes it goes back to as it has been before by switching the mode back, sometime only a part of the audio gets restored while a part stays replaced by noise.

Anyone experiencing somethin like this? I really hope my module is not defective as it was such a happy moment to finally find one...

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by robotopsy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:49 am

Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 am

First thing is quite simple: When in stereo mode there is basically near to no feedback occuring, neither with the negative nor positive setting.
I have a similar issue with that. But I definitely have feedback in stereo mode. If I crank the feedback Knob fully clockwise, the more the feedback grows, only the mid and high frequencies will be heard. As I turn the feedback down, I start hearing the low frequencies again. Is there some sort of filter inside the circuit preventing more clipping, this I don'T know.
Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 am

Then, not so simple to understand, when switching or gating the different modes on the SOT (while looping or operating as a delay), parts of the recorded audio are replaced by digital (white-ish) noise. I am not talking about the four circuit bend switches, also not about the "interesting distortions" resutling from playing audio back in a format it was not recorded in. It is just plain digital white noise without the recorded audio being there anymore and also quite loud.
I have also this kind of behavior specially by turning the stereo switch down. But it is also imprevisible. I have two TS MKII & ASOT MKII and it looks like one of them tend to do this more often than the other. It's a glitch that I really enjoy but I'd prefer to have complete control of it but it seems like the Tyme Sefaries are not that simple to predict. :hmm:

Also I'm not really using the format switches unless I want some aggressive constant white noise. Or with the smallest gates , you can create some cool glitchy rythmics into the loop.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by dooj88 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:57 pm

i fucking love teddy ruxpin. how did he get so good at patching and making videos with those soft mitten hands?

yeah i assumed mk3 would be volkmire's inferno - at least that's the name that sticks in my head as the new forthcoming granular module.
Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:26 am
Great video and such an absurd endeavor to invest so much time and effort in two discontinued modules! I like it when you do this from time to time. Also the remixes really "rock" and the references to the original artists have been very inspiring - having a nice breakfast with the Manorexia album right now. :goo:

Though, while it does help making the decision wether I am more after the MKI or the MKII (it's the MKI, I guess - sound versus SoT features) the only downside is that it will be harder now to find one. I am in constant sorrow to miss an oportunity and could beat myself up for not investing more into the legacy modules back then. Or at least when they were more present on the used market for quite good prices about two years ago before the MKIII line started some kind of a new Harvest...I thought I could replicate it with modern delays and bitcrushers, but it did not really work out like the real thing. :bang:

Hopefully it will motivate Scott to work on a MKIII. His remark about the hardware still being up to date was in 2017 or 2018 I think, so there might be a chance. Presets and being able to choose between prestine and vintage sound quality would be a dream. Though I thought that the granular sampler thing would become the heir of the Sefaris throne.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:44 pm

robotopsy wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:49 am
Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 am

First thing is quite simple: When in stereo mode there is basically near to no feedback occuring, neither with the negative nor positive setting.
I have a similar issue with that. But I definitely have feedback in stereo mode. If I crank the feedback Knob fully clockwise, the more the feedback grows, only the mid and high frequencies will be heard. As I turn the feedback down, I start hearing the low frequencies again. Is there some sort of filter inside the circuit preventing more clipping, this I don'T know.
Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 am

Then, not so simple to understand, when switching or gating the different modes on the SOT (while looping or operating as a delay), parts of the recorded audio are replaced by digital (white-ish) noise. I am not talking about the four circuit bend switches, also not about the "interesting distortions" resutling from playing audio back in a format it was not recorded in. It is just plain digital white noise without the recorded audio being there anymore and also quite loud.
I have also this kind of behavior specially by turning the stereo switch down. But it is also imprevisible. I have two TS MKII & ASOT MKII and it looks like one of them tend to do this more often than the other. It's a glitch that I really enjoy but I'd prefer to have complete control of it but it seems like the Tyme Sefaries are not that simple to predict. :hmm:

Also I'm not really using the format switches unless I want some aggressive constant white noise. Or with the smallest gates , you can create some cool glitchy rythmics into the loop.
Thank you for sharing! Knowing that this is seomehow common saves me from the frustration of having an ill module. Also I do not need to discuss it with the guy I bought it from.

I just had a lovely hour of playtime and found it to be indeed quite capricious in its behaviour. The noise injections have been less prominent in the beginning but came back after some time. Stereo worked much better in general, while feedback stayed consistently at nearly absent in stereo, but seems to go up to unity in mono mode. Also the way it reacts to changes of direction, pitch and stereo is quite interesting as it seems to also shift the postion within the buffer then from time to time. Like it is not always the same part just backwards or slower. And after a while it reaches a point where changing playing modes to often seems to mess up the buffer and things derange a bit. Replacing only the broken parts with new recorded material then is fun and leads to strange rhytmic patterns. :zombie:

So while it would be great to have some of it improved or a little more controlable with an update of the firmware, there is really a lot to discover and the loveliest and strangest sounds and looped patterns evolve and emerge out of its rawness over time when you interact with it.

Back in the days when I started I had a phonogene but did not really feel it. So I though it wouldn't be worth trying the other lofi sampling module. How lucky I am now proving myself wrong!

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Ras Thavas » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:33 pm

The MK II format switches should have a red lightning bolt labeled "Achtung!" by them.

They can, and often do, replace audio with great amount of gnarly white noise, and quite often a very LOUD white noise. Experimentation will show that it all depends what format you are switching from and to, and if you are overdubbing. Some combinations will make interesting and generally useful distortions, others are reach for the level fader moments.

Robotopsy called it tho', by just occasionally sending brief gate "blips" into the format, record and stereo switches, nice (IMO) rhythmic bursts of colored noise and distortion can be judiciously added. The stereo switch instant octave trick is obvious and useful, but it will do some interesting distortions in combination with other switches too.

I will say the SOT bends on the MK I are slightly more usable without those "Oh no!" moments that the TS MK II format switches can make happen. I wish there was a way to control them by gates like we can with the MK II.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:01 am

Yes, you are probaly right. I experimented a lot with it yesterday and got some really lovely sounds, both terrifying rhythmic noise patterns and very nice, still tenderly broken soundscapes and dripping out of the speakers.

What I might have found is the following:

- The general stereo vollume issue might have been more of an phase issue somehwere in my audio chain. I think it works now.

- The very quite low feedback in stereo mode seems to be just how it is. There migth be a viable reason for it. And I think it is acceptable not to have awsom stereo dub echoes.

- Format switching noise might follow a pattern of how or if the tap input, record and loop is used, from which format you start, what has been in the buffer before and again in whih format. Not recording when switching reduces the occurence of noise and not using the 16 Bit format seems to be a good idea too. Though I also was somehow able to sample a simple sine wave and have the Zorlon Cannon switching all SOT jacks when playing the sample and got a random sequence of pitches without any noise. Maybe it is not possible to overdub a part of the sample in a different format and get the same effect as changing format while in playback just with recording it to the buffer? There might be method in this madness but who will ever find out.

Anyway, I think I love this thing.

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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by jwm » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:08 pm

robotopsy wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:54 pm
Now we got to find a way to have some gate inputs for the MK1: ASOT
:hmm: :waah:
Ras Thavas wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:33 pm
I wish there was a way to control them by gates like we can with the MK II.
challenge accepted! i don't have a mk1, but in theory, the practice should work the same... and it could probably be combined with the switches, although it'd be a bit of a rat's nest...and cramped...


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Re: Tyme Sefari MK1 MK2 Kompare Video

Post by Ras Thavas » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:24 pm

Leverkusen, Yes, the feedback levels in the MK II are rather low. Also, unlike the MK I, when you do get enough signal to get close to oscillating it quickly goes to a steady state tone and finally sometimes to silence (solid digital one I guess). In the MK I there seems to be a bigger dynamic range, the feedback "blooms" nicely and will sustain itself in a more musical fashion.

I've had some success in boosting the feedback level using the feedback send and return feature with the MK II. This does improve things for me, but it still wants to jump to its less than useful full saturation too quickly. I should find an inexpensive limiter/boost module to put inline, that could slow down the saturation of the feedback but allow me to keep the levels higher.

jwm, Thanks, keep us informed!

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