Piston Honda MKII

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guestt

Post by guestt » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:51 pm

waveglider wrote:
Zymos wrote:That does help, my confusion mainly came from:

the way the documentation makes it seem like it has to do with the external input, when it has an effect even without any external input.

And, my thinking that "morph" meant the transition between different waveforms (as it does on most other wavetable oscillators), not just smoothing one individual single cycle wave.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I am pretty sure you are actually correct on both counts.
The Morph Discontinuity does affect transitions between waveforms, not start/end of one single waveform, otherwise it would affect the sound when you have the XYZ locked on one waveform- which it clearly does not.

Also the mode button is toggling smoothing between external and internal signal paths. You will see this if you put a scope on both outputs.
That's weird, it most definitely does affect the sound when locked on one waveform on mine - absolutely no question!

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Post by Sinamsis » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:04 pm

Baddcr wrote:
waveglider wrote:
Zymos wrote:That does help, my confusion mainly came from:

the way the documentation makes it seem like it has to do with the external input, when it has an effect even without any external input.

And, my thinking that "morph" meant the transition between different waveforms (as it does on most other wavetable oscillators), not just smoothing one individual single cycle wave.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I am pretty sure you are actually correct on both counts.
The Morph Discontinuity does affect transitions between waveforms, not start/end of one single waveform, otherwise it would affect the sound when you have the XYZ locked on one waveform- which it clearly does not.

Also the mode button is toggling smoothing between external and internal signal paths. You will see this if you put a scope on both outputs.
That's weird, it most definitely does affect the sound when locked on one waveform on mine - absolutely no question!
Yeah, I didn't notice it. I took it to mean how it morphs between wave tables, but it definitely affects how gritty and lofi the waveform sounds.

I also noticed the FM thing everyone's talking about. Ha, I NEVER FM my PH and that's why I never noticed it (I don't know why I don't, I just don't).... Are you sure it's not some normalization like internal FM or something? And on my unit it does make a drastic difference in pitch and timbre.

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Post by waveglider » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:11 pm

I just tested mine out and this is what I am seeing:

-Morph Discontinuity has no affect on static waveform when mode button is Red, when Green it only really does anything after you turn the knob past 2'oclock. AND that depends on which axis selection you have set, the more sliders that are lit, the more the Morph knob affects the sound in Green mode.

-FM knob severely affects pitch with nothing patched to FM input. I did not notice this with 2.5.1, but it is quite pronounced now.

Can anyone else confirm/deny what they are seeing/hearing?

guestt

Post by guestt » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:27 pm

This sounds different to mine waveglider, anyway... I might be wrong, but both experience and the pdf I linked to indicate I'm not :despair:

Does the sound change on yours with a static waveform and nothing plugged into the external input when you switch from red to green going from smoother to more harsh as Zymos described? If so, how do you account for that change?

I also realise that I have never used this functionality without sending a pitch CV so that should also be taken into account.

I think we've reached a point where it would be nice to have some definitive answers rather than some guesses, I come to these conclusions very early on and have never had cause to question them till now, so I'll do a proper set of checks and hook it up to the scope to confirm next chance I get :)

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Post by waveglider » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:40 pm

governor blacksnake wrote:Here's how the morphing works:

- All waveforms are 8 bits and can still be written with the wave256 software. In the default mode the waves can be morphed in three dimensions, the third morphing across ROM chips. This maintains the classic character of the original Piston, but somehow more stable.

- The external input does not morph waveforms, but features a very nice linear interpolation between adjacent samples in the wavetable, up to an effective 16 bit resolution. This sounds like the "smoothed" mode of the original Piston, but more noticeable.

- The "Mode" button swaps these functions - when activated, the internal oscillator will not morph, but generate very smooth waveforms, and the external input will do the 3-dimensional morphing into an 8-bit table.


guestt

Post by guestt » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:48 pm

Obviously not saying that's wrong, but I really don't see how that answers the question... :despair:

edit: it's late here, need to sleep, but will check in tomorrow at some point :)

Thanks for nice discussion, please carry on and I'll catch up!

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Post by waveglider » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:51 pm

This is from a review on Electronic Musician, hopefully clears some more up:
Morph Discontinuity: Another exciting feature on the Piston Honda MKII is the ability to smooth out the steps as you move between waveforms. This makes the waveforms sound as if they are morphing into one another. When the Morph Discontinuity’s Mode button is green, you can control the amount of smoothing between steps of the internal sound; when the button is red, morphing is applied to the external audio’s processing (while, at the same time, the internal sounds are played back at a higher resolution).

The Axis Select button determines the combination of axes to which smoothing is applied. The slider for each axis has an LED on the end: When it is lit, you can adjust the morphing between steps of that axis. When the Morph Discontinuity knob is fully clockwise, you’ll hear stepping. Turn it fully counter-clockwise to get a morphed-sound response between steps. The associated CV input (with attenuator) lets you continuously alter the degree between stepped and smooth behavior—nice!

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Post by Zymos » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:40 pm

waveglider wrote:I just tested mine out and this is what I am seeing:

-Morph Discontinuity has no affect on static waveform when mode button is Red, when Green it only really does anything after you turn the knob past 2'oclock. AND that depends on which axis selection you have set, the more sliders that are lit, the more the Morph knob affects the sound in Green mode.

-FM knob severely affects pitch with nothing patched to FM input. I did not notice this with 2.5.1, but it is quite pronounced now.

Can anyone else confirm/deny what they are seeing/hearing?
I DID notice the FM thing with 2.5.1, and still do with 2.5.2.

Morph Discontinuity- I need to experiment more with the knob, what I've mainly noticed is a very obvious change with static waveforms when simply switching from green to red.

guestt

Post by guestt » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:56 am

None of this is in question waveglider ...

It's how it does what the quotes you have posted describe I'd like to confirm :)

Edit: I have to go out now, but I'll be back this evening

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Post by waveglider » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:08 am

I think I might be misunderstanding you then, apologies for that.
Can you clarify what the question is again, I want to make sure we are on the same page.

guestt

Post by guestt » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:16 am

Hehe entirely possible, and it's entirely possible we're both right too, or about in the right ball park...

At it's simplest the question is why does the sound change when you switch modes in the morph discontinuity section.

The answer I provided stepped through the process and definitely includes morphing between waveforms as well as the basic principles of how the single waveforms are smoothed. As I understand it the process is happening all the time so when you move between waveforms it's not a different function. If you like, all the waveforms in the table are all synced or perhaps a better way to put it would be phase locked in a big stack i.e. all their beginning and end points are in alignment, all smoothed (or not) and the difference between smoothing between one waveform on itself and the others is then as simple a matter of referencing which location in the wavetable you;re accessing. I think it goes deeper than this when you introduce pitch changes, but I am less clear on this.

Argh... this is fascinating, but I really need to go... I'm late now hehe... laters :)))

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Post by Zymos » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:19 am

"The "mode" button swaps these functions- when activated, the internal oscillator will not morph, but generate very smooth waveforms"

I guess that doesn't explain HOW it occurs, but at least confirms what I was hearing....

guestt

Post by guestt » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:59 pm

YEah, bt you started something and know I want to know how :D

Unexpected but very welcome visitor this evening so next chance I get will be weekend, will investigate then and report back.

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Post by Zymos » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:22 pm

Well, I was ready to stop with your explanation a couple of days ago, but noooo, you have to keep digging!

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Post by waveglider » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:38 pm

Image

guestt

Post by guestt » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:34 am

Sorry guys,

Time and commitments got away with me and I've still not done this... you'll probably catch on why soon enough ;)

Haven't forgotten though!!

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Post by VanEck » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:36 am

after the latest update, my fm knob now functions as a "fine tune" knob, but in reverse. turning to the right will lower the pitch, turning to the left pitches up. the range seems to match the fine tune knob. it does this with cv present or not. strange stuff.
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Pickit

Post by elil » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:15 am

I'm on the jump on buying a used piston honda mk2.
The guy got it a year ago, so i guess it is still on some pre 2.0 firmware.
Someone around europe got a pickit and would be willing sending it to me? I'll send it back asap, cash for shipping included.
This probably won't save me anything, but i don't see the point on buying this thing for one use only :<
Cheers

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Post by elil » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:04 pm

Anyone?

:sadbanana:

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Post by Sinamsis » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:46 pm

Two way shipping will probably cost almost as much as the pickit itself, if not more.

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Post by mt3 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:33 pm

Guv' said he'd be doing free firmware updates at Knobcon. PLUS free waveforms that are new!
:yay:

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Post by Artaos » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:40 pm

I can't figure out how to use the FM input on my Piston Honda mkII. Whatever signal I patch in the FM input (constant, AC, LFO, audio rate, etc), it has no effect on the sound. This is with the corresponding attenuverter full CW, full CCW, or anywhere in between.

The "CV" frequency input works as expected, it's only the "FM" input that doesn't seem to work.

Do I have a faulty unit or am I missing something?

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Post by zolar_czakl » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:37 pm

I just got a 2nd hand PH mkII with expander board and ROMs. If I read the instructions correctly, the ROMs are loaded onto the mkII memory, replacing the stock A-F ROMs. What's the process to restore the stock ROMs in banks A-F? I did a search but couldn't find anything specific, and it's not explained on the website.

"MARK II INSTRUCTIONS:
- Turn off your instrument and remove the Piston Honda from the rack.
- Find the standoffs on the back of the module. Plug the expander board into the module, lining up the screw holes with the standoffs. It is not necessary to fasten the board with additional screws.
- Fill all six sockets on the expander with waveform ROMs, taking care to line up the notch on the socket with the notch on the chip.
- Hold down the "MODE" button in the Morph Discontinuity section.
- While holding the button, turn the instrument's power on.
- Wait one minute while the waveforms load from the expander to the memory. They will replace ROM (Z axis) locations A-F. When the load is complete, the module will activate and function as normal.
- Remove the expander board and re-install the unit in the rack. It is not necessary to leave the expander plugged into the MK2 piston."

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Post by mt3 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:17 pm

Aren't the stock ROMs in A-F duplicated from those in 0-5?

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Post by Abyssinianloop » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:52 am

mt3 wrote:Aren't the stock ROMs in A-F duplicated from those in 0-5?
Yes, they are. I think he doesn't like the custom roms he loaded in and wants the duplicate stock roms back in the a-f slots.

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