Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe., daverj

User avatar
D_Robot
Common Wiggler
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:58 am

Post by D_Robot » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:03 am

anomad wrote:samn
johnwynberg wrote:
D_Robot wrote:the front SD card is corrupted. I have no access to OSX so wondering if anyone has any idea how to format the card via Windows to work with Structure?
It seems the front SD card with which Structure comes gets corrupted very easily. It happened to me as well, but I’m on Mac, so I can’t tell you how to format it on Windows.

Have you tried to contact them? When I had the problem with my card, they got back to me very quickly.
. we've added a new function in the System Menu that allows you to format and setup a blank SD card in the front slot in the v1.8 firmware. d/l it @ http://erogenous-tones.com/structure-firmware/
That's a much appreciated addition. As are all of the other extra features you keep adding. There is so much possibility with this module it is incredible.

User avatar
shreeswifty
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:15 pm
Location: columbia, MD
Contact:

Post by shreeswifty » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:12 pm

I ordered one of these.
With a 4MS POD 48X

Any caveats? I am using this device as an excuse to start coding some shaders
and place it into my main system
Image

i labelled recently for some friends
[/img]

anomad
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:37 pm
Location: NC

Post by anomad » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:52 pm

shreeswifty wrote:I ordered one of these.
With a 4MS POD 48X

Any caveats? I am using this device as an excuse to start coding some shaders
and place it into my main system
. i've been told Structure can cause hours of time to just disappear! :D (disclaimer, I'm James - 1/2 of the Erogenous Tones video department)

. since you mentioned shader coding, here's a link to our online library if you want to get a feel for what type of shaders work well w/Structure - http://glsl.erogenous-tones.com/?page=0

. and here are some quick videos on GLSL on Strcuture -

. let me know if you have any questions

-james

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:37 am

Anyone with a high quality recording to share? I'm curious about this, but would love to be able to record the output in HD somehow. Is that even possible from a composite out?

This looks like the video synth module that'll finally push me into video synthesis, but very curious about how good of a recording you can actually make of it.

anomad
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:37 pm
Location: NC

Post by anomad » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:54 pm

Daisuk wrote:Anyone with a high quality recording to share? I'm curious about this, but would love to be able to record the output in HD somehow. Is that even possible from a composite out?

This looks like the video synth module that'll finally push me into video synthesis, but very curious about how good of a recording you can actually make of it.
. most of the videos on our channel ( ) were captured as composite out from Structure to a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to give you an idea of the output (after it's been mangled by youtube :) )

. yes, you can convert composite to HDMI - we're in the process of testing a few different devices to see what the quality is like.

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:47 pm

anomad wrote:
Daisuk wrote:Anyone with a high quality recording to share? I'm curious about this, but would love to be able to record the output in HD somehow. Is that even possible from a composite out?

This looks like the video synth module that'll finally push me into video synthesis, but very curious about how good of a recording you can actually make of it.
. most of the videos on our channel ( ) were captured as composite out from Structure to a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to give you an idea of the output (after it's been mangled by youtube :) )

. yes, you can convert composite to HDMI - we're in the process of testing a few different devices to see what the quality is like.
Sweet, thanks a lot for the info! Seriously considering one of these, as it looks like mighty fun to use, just wondering if it'll be a little too lo-fi for what I want to use it for (basically for recording videos and uploading on say Youtube or Vimeo, not gonna use it live).

User avatar
mildheadwound
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 9:40 am

Post by mildheadwound » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:12 am

I recently buckled and grabbed this thing, with resolution output being my only real concern. Sure there are composite to HDMI, (and vice versa), but at best that will just emphasize the low resolution, (I think it’s 720x480i), which is common with up rezzing. However, I can get HD recordings, from cellphone, or camera aimed at my analogue tv, on which its output looks very good. Much better then some of the YouTube compressed examples I have seen, thus far. I’ll shoot some examples up soon, i’m sure.

I just need a way to blur the focus a bit, (the old Vaseline on the lens trick?), or I may start taking direct vids, to my video card, and experiment with after effects smoothing algorithms, after the fact. Another consideration is using a projector, and filming that, as you can usually get away from the hard pixel, with a slight defocus. There are quite a few cheaper ones, on craig’s, that use 480i as a template resolution. Also, because it’s based on glsl, it’s more akin to vector graphics, then raster, if that makes sense, but definitely integrates the latter as well.

As for the module itself; it’s f-Ing brilliant! I use one audio input with drums and the other with melodies, and get some very expressive modulations going. I also love the way you can mute and solo the layers as you are going through the presets. It is just the basic operation, but it really lends itself to experimentation. Anyways, i’ve only messed with it a few hours, and found it to be very intuitive, but can go about as deep as you would want, considering you can upload your own code, pictures, video, midi, etc...

Ever since I first heard of it, I wanted a Rutt Etra, if you know what that is, but this thing takes video processing to another level, altogether. It’s more like a Kai’s Power tools or some, equally as bonkers, texture generator, for video gobbledygook.

Also the whole LZX compatibility is now opening up those modules as a possibility, then before, primarily because of price. It would be great to know which ones would be the most immediately useful, in tandem.

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:34 am

mildheadwound wrote:I recently buckled and grabbed this thing, with resolution output being my only real concern. Sure there are composite to HDMI, (and vice versa), but at best that will just emphasize the low resolution, (I think it’s 720x480i), which is common with up rezzing. However, I can get HD recordings, from cellphone, or camera aimed at my analogue tv, on which its output looks very good. Much better then some of the YouTube compressed examples I have seen, thus far. I’ll shoot some examples up soon, i’m sure.

I just need a way to blur the focus a bit, (the old Vaseline on the lens trick?), or I may start taking direct vids, to my video card, and experiment with after effects smoothing algorithms, after the fact. Another consideration is using a projector, and filming that, as you can usually get away from the hard pixel, with a slight defocus. There are quite a few cheaper ones, on craig’s, that use 480i as a template resolution. Also, because it’s based on glsl, it’s more akin to vector graphics, then raster, if that makes sense, but definitely integrates the latter as well.

As for the module itself; it’s f-Ing brilliant! I use one audio input with drums and the other with melodies, and get some very expressive modulations going. I also love the way you can mute and solo the layers as you are going through the presets. It is just the basic operation, but it really lends itself to experimentation. Anyways, i’ve only messed with it a few hours, and found it to be very intuitive, but can go about as deep as you would want, considering you can upload your own code, pictures, video, midi, etc...

Ever since I first heard of it, I wanted a Rutt Etra, if you know what that is, but this thing takes video processing to another level, altogether. It’s more like a Kai’s Power tools or some, equally as bonkers, texture generator, for video gobbledygook.

Also the whole LZX compatibility is now opening up those modules as a possibility, then before, primarily because of price. It would be great to know which ones would be the most immediately useful, in tandem.
Ah, thank you so much for this! I really appreciate it! And would love to see some examples of your stuff recorded this way! Actually, I was browsing videos on Instagram yesterday, and the guy who had the best resolution videos said he just filmed his monitor with an iPhone! So that might definitely be the way to go. If I end up going for the Structure, I've been thinking of maybe pairing it with the LZX Sensory Translator (basically envelope followers):

[video][/video]

User avatar
johnwynberg
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Berlin

Post by johnwynberg » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:42 am

Daisuk wrote:If I end up going for the Structure, I've been thinking of maybe pairing it with the LZX Sensory Translator (basically envelope followers)
Keep in mind that Structure includes, in a way, its own envelope followers. From the Getting Started:
“Running high speed inputs into these CV [CV3-CV5] will be sampled at the lower frame rates and does generate neat effects (for audio, it can mimic an envelope follower!)
"CV1X and CV2Y are dual purpose. First, they can be used at audio rate when your NODE SET contains audio NODES. Second, They can also always be used as regular LOW FREQUENCY CV just like CV3-CV5.”

The advantage of Sensory Translator is that includes 5 fixed notch filters [to be more precise, 5 "band-passed frequency bands", to use LXZ words], so that you can get 5 different CV outputs from one single audio input. Due to the lack of Sensory Translators available at the moment, I use a multi-filter when creating visuals from already mixed, recorded material. But for creating visuals at the same time as the music, you could just patch 5 different audio sources, before they get mixed, into Structure, or use any combination of audio and modulation that you use in your patch. So, in my view, Sensory Translation is ok, but not essential to Structure.

User avatar
johnwynberg
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Berlin

Post by johnwynberg » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:27 am

Daisuk wrote:just wondering if it'll be a little too lo-fi for what I want to use it for (basically for recording videos and uploading on say Youtube or Vimeo, not gonna use it live).
I would also love to know more the technical specifications of the Structure. But, as mildheadwound points out, the output video resolution appears to be 720x480i in NTSC, which is quite normal for video synthesis in Eurorack. That’s what LZX Visual Cortex requires, if set to NTSC. (Although, I might be wrong here, but I’m under the impression my LZX Visual Cortex outputs a more squared 640x480i). I haven’t really tried yet with a monitor (my monitors are laptops), but the converter from digital to Composite in Structure must be very good (obviously, if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t matter how much the module could do “internally”, if at the end the converter trashed the result).
If one needs to record to digital, the quality of the Composite to HDMI converter then becomes another factor. Blackmagic Shuttle seems the best option, for its price. I also use a cheaper video capture device for recording short video clips, it gives me decent results, but sometimes I also record with a digital camera from the screen (which records to higher resolution, but also introduces —the “technique”, not the camera— other “elements”, like the resolution of the screen, and reflections, if I’m not careful —though they can also be used creatively). Of course, there are other, truly professional converters and scalers out there, but considering the prices and the relatively resolution of the source material, I’m not so sure if they are really worth for the Structure. I think it’s better to record to the same output resolution and then use a video editor program like Premiere Pro to output to a higher resolution (plus, you get to add more effects, layering, etc., if you want).
Anyway, for small videos, to upload to YouTube and Vimeo, sure, Structure is very good, or, to quote mildheadwound's more precise judgment, “f-Ing brilliant!”. Even for medium size projections, it should be ok (most backscreen projections tend to be a bit soft focus, anyway). For stadium size screens and laser-sharp visuals, one can’t obviously expect Structure to replace the very powerful computers that they require.
Last edited by johnwynberg on Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
johnwynberg
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Berlin

Post by johnwynberg » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 am

mildheadwound wrote:Also the whole LZX compatibility is now opening up those modules as a possibility, then before, primarily because of price. It would be great to know which ones would be the most immediately useful, in tandem.
Yes, that would be another interesting discussion to have. I was just starting with LZX, when Structure came out, and for the moment the LZX modules that I have, plus Structure, seem more than enough. I still haven’t had time to explore everything Structure can do, and if to that I add different combinations with the LZX modules...
Obviously, Visual Cortex is necessary, but, apart from it, my favourite LZX module to run with Structure is Staircase, even if Structure does include a similar effect.
Also worth considering that they can be used not just in tandem, but also in parallel, since both Structure and Visual Cortex include not just one, but two composite outputs.

[I seem to have too much free time this morning. My apologies. I better shut up now. 8-) ]

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm

johnwynberg wrote:
Daisuk wrote:If I end up going for the Structure, I've been thinking of maybe pairing it with the LZX Sensory Translator (basically envelope followers)
Keep in mind that Structure includes, in a way, its own envelope followers. From the Getting Started:
“Running high speed inputs into these CV [CV3-CV5] will be sampled at the lower frame rates and does generate neat effects (for audio, it can mimic an envelope follower!)
"CV1X and CV2Y are dual purpose. First, they can be used at audio rate when your NODE SET contains audio NODES. Second, They can also always be used as regular LOW FREQUENCY CV just like CV3-CV5.”

The advantage of Sensory Translator is that includes 5 fixed notch filters [to be more precise, 5 "band-passed frequency bands", to use LXZ words], so that you can get 5 different CV outputs from one single audio input. Due to the lack of Sensory Translators available at the moment, I use a multi-filter when creating visuals from already mixed, recorded material. But for creating visuals at the same time as the music, you could just patch 5 different audio sources, before they get mixed, into Structure, or use any combination of audio and modulation that you use in your patch. So, in my view, Sensory Translation is ok, but not essential to Structure.
That's a good point! There's really a limit to how many reactive things you should/could have going at a time anyway, I reckon. :) Thanks for chiming in, I'm leaning slightly towards giving Structure a go, as it just looks like a lot of fun. :)

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:02 pm

Well, so I caved in and got a Structure. Have only played with it for about an hour, but holy moly! Who needs drugs? :lol: This thing is trippy as hell, and in a very good way. Amazing stuff. And I haven't even plugged it into an external display yet. Wow. Well done, Erogenous Tones! :mrgreen: :party: :yay:

User avatar
wednesdayayay
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am

Post by wednesdayayay » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:39 pm

there are so many feedback options to explore with the structure!

make yourself a little r_e_c_u_r box and start sampling that structure though it is very fun
sh is the sound of data
bobo is the gesture

PB

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:23 am

wednesdayayay wrote:there are so many feedback options to explore with the structure!

make yourself a little r_e_c_u_r box and start sampling that structure though it is very fun
What's a recur box? :razz:

User avatar
Agawell
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 3:22 am

Post by Agawell » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:36 pm

it's a raspberry pi based video sample (playe)r - requires no diy skills to build - you just slot it together (iirc) and load the code

you can also add on a video input module for actual video sampling - otherwise it's just playback of video from a usb stick

google recur github for more details
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:22 pm

Agawell wrote:it's a raspberry pi based video sample (playe)r - requires no diy skills to build - you just slot it together (iirc) and load the code

you can also add on a video input module for actual video sampling - otherwise it's just playback of video from a usb stick

google recur github for more details
Ah, nice! I didn't find it googling it at first. That looks really useful, thanks! :)

User avatar
ijed
Common Wiggler
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:19 pm

Post by ijed » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:07 pm

Agawell wrote:it's a raspberry pi based video sample (playe)r - requires no diy skills to build - you just slot it together (iirc) and load the code

you can also add on a video input module for actual video sampling - otherwise it's just playback of video from a usb stick

google recur github for more details
It also runs shaders just like Structure, has schematics to build a interface for accepting 4 cvs for control of parameters.

The designer also has a pizero version that looks very eurorack friendly

User avatar
Agawell
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 3:22 am

Post by Agawell » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:53 pm

ah brilliant - I was kind of looking at it and thinking about it but I didn't look any further than the input devices - the rgb one is a little pricey, comparatively to the rest of it!!! - but even so it's great value especially if it can run shaders and has cv input

will it handle lzx RGB sampling?? I guess it could be augmented for lzx rgb which would be exceptionally useful - I'd definitely be interested if somone made a pcb or schematics for that

I was looking at the structure and the price of it and what it can do and what I can do with a computer instead (praxisLive/Lumen etc), but a cheap diy alternative might be cool - or there's the computemodule from seismic which also looks interesting but not seen much about it

Is there any reason you couldn't fit one in a eurorack with the pi3? (other than it's gonna be about 40hp, deep and power hungry)
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

User avatar
Zymos
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:14 pm
Location: ABQ,NM

Post by Zymos » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:47 pm

[video][/video]

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:28 am

Zymos wrote:[video][/video]
Nice! What did you use to record it?

User avatar
Zymos
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:14 pm
Location: ABQ,NM

Post by Zymos » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Already posted it on the Structure FB group.
But it's this one-https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R71Q6 ... asin_title

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:13 pm

Zymos wrote:Already posted it on the Structure FB group.
But it's this one-https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R71Q6 ... asin_title
Ah, I know who you are now, and I promise I won't ask you again, haha. Thanks. Great recording. :)

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:02 pm

Cross posting from the Catalyst thread, but I reckon this belongs here too. Emblematic Systems Catalyst modulating Erogenous Tones Structure, Mutable Instruments Plaits & a Tip Top Z-DSP. Very nice combo!

[video][/video]

User avatar
Daisuk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3912
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: Oslo
Contact:

Post by Daisuk » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:30 pm

New firmware (2.0) out today. It adds a lot of great new stuff.

http://erogenous-tones.com/structure-fi ... xcq2HKsxds

This module is so much fun, I'm not getting much done with any of my other things, as I'm just messing too much around with this one. I really love it a whole lot more than I had anticipated. Highly recommend it to anyone even remotely interested. :)

Post Reply

Return to “Video Synthesis”