good oscilloscope for vector rescanning?

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe., daverj

Post Reply
User avatar
arbito
Common Wiggler
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:52 pm
Location: seattle

Post by arbito » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:59 am

Maybe this is the issue? Is my Leader Oscilloscope a UK unit?
Image

User avatar
nerdware
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1527
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:19 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Post by nerdware » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:33 pm

It looks like it to me. You may need a step-up transformer. :hmm:
https://vimeo.com/user2264453
CANNOT DIY. WILL NOT DIY. DO NOT WANT.

User avatar
lionelfischer
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:12 am
Location: Maryland

Post by lionelfischer » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:25 am

anyone ever used a tektronix wvr 5200 ? or anything in that realm? is there any viable alternative to a real scope? ive never seen one but maybe stuff like this is cool?

User avatar
lionelfischer
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:12 am
Location: Maryland

Post by lionelfischer » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:58 am

lionelfischer wrote:anyone ever used a tektronix wvr 5200 ? or anything in that realm? is there any viable alternative to a real scope? ive never seen one but maybe stuff like this is cool?
whoa, just saw the earlier post about the vectorVGA... i guess thats the grandaddy one of them all. are any of these satisfying as substitutes for a real scope?

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:30 pm

I got myself the Leader LBO-51MA a while back after trying out a few other scopes.
It is definitely the best one as far as I'm concerned because it seems to like the LZX voltages and as a big bonus you can remove the graticule to get a clear picture.
See some of my experiments here :party:

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Abyssinianloop
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:25 pm

Post by Abyssinianloop » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:52 pm

I read some information earlier in this thread about an External Blanking Input not necessarily being a proper Z input (only on/off in that case).

I'm looking at a Hitachi V-423 40MHz scope that has "X-Y" mode and an "Ext Blanking" input on the back.

This from the manual:
http://electronicsandbooks.com/eab1/man ... 20[64].pdf

"EXTERNAL BLANKING INPUT connector
Input terminal for brightness modulation. It is of the DC coupling. The brightness is reduced with a positive signal and increases with a negative signal."

Does this sound like it might work as a Z for vector rescanning?

Edit: I found more detailed info on user manual pp 34-35. It mentions "Z-AXIS INPUT (INTENSITY MODULATION)." I assume they are referring to the input labeled "Ext Blanking." :despair:
From the manual:
"Z-AXIS INPUT (INTENSITY MODULATION)
DC-coupled, positive-going signal decreases intensity: 5Vp-p signal causes noticeable modulation at normal intensity: DC to 2MHz
Input impedance 33k ohm(typ.) [47k ohm (typ.)]
Maximum input voltage 30V (DC + peak AC)"

If I'm understanding what I've read in these threads, I'm thinking this scope could work. Hoping for confirmation from the experts here, but I may just take my chances and give it a try.

User avatar
Polykrom
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:09 am

Post by Polykrom » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:44 am

Hi all

Like Abyssinianloop, I am also looking at a neat osmelloscope that's up for sale and trying to figure out if it's suitable for rescanning. It certainly looks the part, but I'd love some feedback from the experts on this matter before I pull the trigger (no pun intended).

The datasheet says it's «a wide-bandwith X-Y display with frequency response of DC – 5 MHz (-3dB) for all X, Y and Z axes».

Input impedance 1Mohm, allowable input voltage ±50V (DC or AC peak; AC frequency not higher than 1kHz). X and Y deflection sensitivity 800-200mV/DIV (adjustable), Z axis input sensitivity 0.5-2V («set at maximum sensitivity when shipped»).

Any thoughts on this? To me, it sounds reasonable (and the voltage ranges seem suitable), but then again, I hardly even know what an input impedance even is.

User avatar
eth
Common Wiggler
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:00 am
Location: Bozeman, MT

Post by eth » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:16 am

A few questions for leader LBO-51MA owners... I had ramp switches centered, and my test patch was:
Visual Cortex Horizontal Ramp out --> X input
Visual Cortex Vertical Ramp out --> Y input
Video source luma signal --> Z input

With the above connections, should the image be both horizontally and vertically flipped? I don't have any way of inverting with my current setup, but I believe that would solve my problem. Do you typically have to shift/scale the X and Y channels using the knobs/gain screw pots to fill out the screen?
Also, is it typical for the ramps' checkerboard/dither pattern to be obvious? I don't remember seeing this from others' pictures and videos.

Many thanks! :tu:

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:24 am

eth wrote:A few questions for leader LBO-51MA owners... I had ramp switches centered, and my test patch was:
Visual Cortex Horizontal Ramp out --> X input
Visual Cortex Vertical Ramp out --> Y input
Video source luma signal --> Z input

With the above connections, should the image be both horizontally and vertically flipped? I don't have any way of inverting with my current setup, but I believe that would solve my problem. Do you typically have to shift/scale the X and Y channels using the knobs/gain screw pots to fill out the screen?
Also, is it typical for the ramps' checkerboard/dither pattern to be obvious? I don't remember seeing this from others' pictures and videos.

Many thanks! :tu:
I don't have the Cortex, I was using regular 'ole Ramps.
Definitely can confirm that it is possible to vertically and horizontally invert the image.
I was using the Video Blending Matrix before heading into the X, Y and Z - I'm pretty sure that was important for me to get things happening nicely - it is certainly essential for adding modulation into the patch. The modulation is really good for some additional movement.

My Leader Scope is currently in storage before my pending house move, so I cant test it for you now - maybe somebody else (who also has a Cortex) can help out here?

User avatar
eth
Common Wiggler
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:00 am
Location: Bozeman, MT

Post by eth » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:52 am

Ahh, I assumed the ramps section on the VC was a Video Ramps substitute. Looks like the Cadet IV could be one solution? It also has inverted ramps outputs.

https://www.lzxindustries.net/product/c ... generator/

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:41 am

I hadn't noticed this thread before so in case it hasn't been mentioned yet a currently manufactured o'scope that might work for you vector scan folks is the Sinometer Y43010 and probably the ST16C too, although the latter is pretty hard to find.
I have the Y43010 and while the graticule isn't designed to be removed, it is just a peice of plastic attached to the case and can be permanently removed with slightly above caveman level DIY bashing skillz. :eek: :hihi: :smash:
http://www.sinometer.com/?Oscilloscopes ... ry185.html
Image

Amazon has them for $170 and I've seen them on eBay too.

User avatar
Cat-A-Tonic
Lobsters love Muff
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:03 am
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:34 pm

^There doesn't appear to be a Z-input on those scopes.

Z is where your video feed goes.
It modulates brightness.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:58 pm

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:^There doesn't appear to be a Z-input on those scopes.

Z is where your video feed goes.
It modulates brightness.
Ahh, thanks for the info! :doh: Sorry, I'm a total nooblet and I really know nothing about the type of stuff you folks are doing! :oops:

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:34 pm

eth wrote:Ahh, I assumed the ramps section on the VC was a Video Ramps substitute. Looks like the Cadet IV could be one solution? It also has inverted ramps outputs.

https://www.lzxindustries.net/product/c ... generator/
The Cortex Ramps 'should' be just fine for using for this purpose. I think your issue is one of attenuation and mixing which is why everybody recommends using the Video Blending Matrix for this. You may be able to use other mixers in lieu -such as a couple of BSO mixers.

I clearly recall that it was difficult to get things really working properly without the VBM - fine tuning the signal levels to match the scope, filling the screen to 100%, having the inversion correct etc etc etc.

I can tell you it was a wonderful feeling when those dancing green lines finally starting working like I wanted.. (but not without quite some effort!)
:party: :party: :party:

And just on Scopes - I had tried 3 or 4 different ones with only limited success before I got the Leader. If there is no Z input then you are wasting your time. Even if it does have a Z, you need your voltage levels to be compatible.

User avatar
eth
Common Wiggler
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:00 am
Location: Bozeman, MT

Post by eth » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:16 am

Cobramatic I ended up finding X & Y inversion switches inside the scope that solved my mirroring problem. I've been using towers of stackcables and my BSO quad mixer to get nice wavy modulations of my video signal, in lieu of a VBM :hihi: Slowly but surely getting up and running! Waiting to hear back from Lars about the dither pattern.
arbito wrote:Maybe this is the issue? Is my Leader Oscilloscope a UK unit?
Hey arbito, I noticed this Voltage Select panel on the back, hidden by a metal shield and two screws. This picture is with the shield removed. Do you have this, and if so, maybe you could get your scope working? One difference is that my unit has a permanent power cord vs yours using a removable IEC C13 cable.

Image

User avatar
arbito
Common Wiggler
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:52 pm
Location: seattle

Post by arbito » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:52 pm

eth wrote:Cobramatic I ended up finding X & Y inversion switches inside the scope that solved my mirroring problem. I've been using towers of stackcables and my BSO quad mixer to get nice wavy modulations of my video signal, in lieu of a VBM :hihi: Slowly but surely getting up and running! Waiting to hear back from Lars about the dither pattern.
arbito wrote:Maybe this is the issue? Is my Leader Oscilloscope a UK unit?
Hey arbito, I noticed this Voltage Select panel on the back, hidden by a metal shield and two screws. This picture is with the shield removed. Do you have this, and if so, maybe you could get your scope working? One difference is that my unit has a permanent power cord vs yours using a removable IEC C13 cable.

Image

Man, I wish mine had that, things would have been so much easier. For others that have the same issue as me, here's an update. I bought a step up converter from 110v,240v and the unit works flawlessly!

I want to lose the baggage of having a big heavy step up converter so I posted some questions about my Oscilloscope in the DIY section on muffs, hoping to find a more permanent solution. viewtopic.php?t=167942&highlight=

Graham for Hinton Instruments was nice enough to point out that I can easily re-solder the points on my internal power supply to convert the unit back to 110v. Looks easy! :banana: :nana:

PixelPeeper
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:51 pm
Location: N/A

Post by PixelPeeper » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:23 pm

Image

Just got this monitor off ebay and it has an DC power molex connector thing on the back... I dont know much about electronics can anyone point me in the direction of the supplies needed to hook this guy up?

tektronix 620 monitor with Option 20 ( ac power supply removed)

matheuwatson
Common Wiggler
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:24 am

Post by matheuwatson » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:37 am

________
Last edited by matheuwatson on Sat May 06, 2017 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

PixelPeeper
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:51 pm
Location: N/A

Post by PixelPeeper » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:53 pm

matheuwatson wrote:Hi there, this is a really good question, I just just got an HP 1340A, I have some LZX modules coming (Visual Cortex, Navigator, Prismatic Ray, Bridge etc.) and I wondered if anyone knows where I can get a power supply from this unit and also do I just need mini-jack to BNC (male or female??) to use this? Thanks again for any help!
I use these cables



with these rca to bnc adapters


Lau2d
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:53 am
Location: Denmark

Tektronix, TAS 220 ? Any experience?

Post by Lau2d » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:38 am

Hey, im about to decide whether to buy a Tektronix, TAS 220 used for my school. Anyone have expertience with this scope? As far as i can see in this pdf manual for it, the glass containing the graticule can be removed. (look page 30 in the print manual page count/44 in the pdf - edit: http://w140.com/tek_tas_220_250.pdf ) But not completely sure.

As far as i can see this might work, but just want to check.

Its a 20 mhz scope, and has the following specs for the z axix input:
Max input voltage: 50 V (DC + peak AC)
Sensitivity: 3Vp-p (Trace becomes brighter with negative input)
Frequency Bandwith: DC - 5MHz
Input Resistance: 5K ohms

Any comments?

Best Lau
https://www.engelsholm.dk/en/subjects/v ... bject.html

User avatar
bumpadelicks
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:48 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA, Earth
Contact:

Post by bumpadelicks » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:18 am

Hello Everyone,
I have been studying this thread for awhile now in lurking mode
over my interest in vector rescanning imagery.
I have a question to the poster (or anyone with the knowledge) who said the graticule on the Tektronic T-922 (plastic case) is removable. How?
The service manual does not show this and in fact shows the crt with the graticule on it.
I believe someone said the Tektronic 620 monitor may have a removable one as well.
However, it seems like it is pretty well fixed onto the CRT.
Right now my oscilloscope collection stands at 4 trying to find one with a grat that can be removed.
Looks like i may been looking for the fifth. Help!

Really digging the Cobramatic images. :yay:

Thanks for all the info,
cheers
bump

User avatar
Cobramatic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Cobramatic » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:40 pm

bumpadelicks wrote: Right now my oscilloscope collection stands at 4 trying to find one with a grat that can be removed.
Looks like i may been looking for the fifth. Help!

Really digging the Cobramatic images. :yay:
Thanks for that!
I have to recommend the Leader scope if you want to remove the graticule - it's easy to take off and the screen is a reasonably decent size.
Also the Leader seems to play much better with the LZX than the othe scopes I tried.

User avatar
makers
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 658
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:54 pm

Post by makers » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:35 pm

I bought a T-922 hoping to remove the graticule but mine was also etched into the tube.

I few months later I found a Tektronix 606 with no graticule but it was DOA.

Last try I got a Tektronix 620 with a removable graticule. A close-up photo of the installed graticule lines seemed to cast a slight shadow onto the Tube front- as if it were raised by a sight amount

Good luck with your search. My 620 looks much, much better than the 922.

User avatar
bumpadelicks
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:48 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA, Earth
Contact:

Post by bumpadelicks » Tue May 02, 2017 2:11 pm

Thanks for the quick replies.
So i guess i am now in the market for a 5th scope.
Looks like what i have ain't gonna work.
Did not know that the grat is removable only on certain Tektronix 620 models.
And to those you said the grat is removable on the Tektronix T-922. :bop:
So far i cannot find a Leader LBO 51MA or Tektronix 606 on the cheap.
The obsession continues...

Happy Wiggling,
buMp

User avatar
dnigrin
Common Wiggler
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:34 am

Post by dnigrin » Sat May 13, 2017 2:25 pm

A friend recently got me into this vector rescanning stuff while I was over his house, where he's got all these LZX, Brown Shoes Only, etc.. modules.

Now that I'm back home though, where I have none of that (and no Euro stuff period, refuse to start the addiction!), but wondering whether I can use Max and my existing scope (Tektronix 2215, 60 MHz, XY mode, and with Z input).

I noticed earlier in this thread from years ago that i.m.klif was trying stuff, but that there were questions about ramp speed, sync of ramps with video, etc... But that there were interesting "experiments" to try. And then I see that he was apparently successful:

My initial experiments have not been too successful, and I think it's related to my approach to the ramps, their frequencies and sync, etc... So hoping someone's got tips for me!

Fair warning - though I'm quite adept with Max (see my sig and website for several of my creations), I'm a total video noob....
Dan Nigrin - Defective Records
Fauxmo: a Fizmo editor / Cyclic, M185 & Klee Sequencers / DSX, MC-202 & MC-4 Hacks
http://defectiverecords.com

Post Reply

Return to “Video Synthesis”