Video Capture Devices

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

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BRIZ
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Video Capture Devices

Post by BRIZ » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:06 pm

i've found a few random threads that briefly talk about video capture devices... but not much of a dedicated thread.

please share info about your capture tools:

- what hardware
- what software
- and what line rate (480, 720, 1080) are you ending up with?

right now i'm using a stupid Dazzel and ending up with silly 640x480.
tried using the ADVC 55 but was getting intermittent digital lego-land glitching and sent it back. considering picking up what Lars is using - Matrox MXO2 Mini w/composite to component/RGsB converter .... but would really like to find something that is standalone so i won't need a computer everywhere.

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Post by lizlarsen » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Any standalone hard-drive based devices are going to be low quality or extremely expensive I think. I'd be interested what people are using for that too, though! snufkin, weren't you using a very small portable thing for this? I have a Sony DVD recorder that's very small and portable, but the video quality is crap compared to what I get out of my capture hardware.

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Post by daverj » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:33 pm

I record to a DV camcorder and then send that to Premiere via Firewire. I have one of the few DV camcorders that has composite in/out.

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wcfields
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Post by wcfields » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:36 pm

- what hardware
Output from computer:

Code: Select all

Adobe Premiere CS 5.5 Timeline (Playback to 2nd Monitor) -> VGA -> Extron Super Emotia GX Scan Converter -> Analog Land
Input into computer:

Code: Select all

S-Video from Analog Land -> Canopus AVDC100 -> Firewire 400/800 Cable -> DV Capture in Adobe Premiere CS 5.5
- what software
I used to use Final Cut 7 a lot, but switched to Adobe Premiere a while ago. I find with capturing DV footage from the Canpous or even from a DVCAM deck it produces much fewer dropped frames.

Typically I'll burn the footage to a DVD at the TV station (but DVDs suck for rapid movement and get super pixelated, for those I'll take a capture from the DVCAM tape). In those cases I'll use MPEGStreamclip to rip the DVD.
- and what line rate (480, 720, 1080) are you ending up with?
480i, then de-interlace in Premiere before encoding to 640x480 for web.

Almost all my gear (except for the video cameras) is NTSC/PAL switchable. I've been considering experimenting with using PAL for the extra few lines of resolution.
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Post by lizlarsen » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Briz, there's a diagram of my studio connections here if you are curious. I am running a similar setup to wcfields.
viewtopic.php?t=51895

edit: the main difference between my setup and wcfields is the Matrox MXO2 can natively upscale and capture in HD resolutions, like 1080i/p and 720 i/p. while you don't increase the "resolution" that much, this looks WAY nicer than if you took a 480i image and stretched it to 1080i resolutions in software.

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Post by wcfields » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:57 pm

creatorlars wrote:Briz, there's a diagram of my studio connections here if you are curious. I am running a similar setup to wcfields.
viewtopic.php?t=51895

edit: the main difference between my setup and wcfields is the Matrox MXO2 can natively upscale and capture in HD resolutions, like 1080i/p and 720 i/p. while you don't increase the "resolution" that much, this looks WAY nicer than if you took a 480i image and stretched it to 1080i resolutions in software.
Also NTSC DV Capture colorspace is limited to 4:1:1 while the Matrox MXO2 can do up to 4:2:2.

Read more here on colorspace: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_sub ... and_ratios

Edit: PAL DV Colorspace is 4:2:0 which, seems to look better than the NTSC
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Post by snufkin » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:49 pm

creatorlars wrote:Any standalone hard-drive based devices are going to be low quality or extremely expensive I think. I'd be interested what people are using for that too, though! snufkin, weren't you using a very small portable thing for this? I have a Sony DVD recorder that's very small and portable, but the video quality is crap compared to what I get out of my capture hardware.
I use a tiny pinnacle stand alone video to MP4 on usb capture device
it was £40 used

it's low quality and I am definatly looking to invest in something new after I get a new laptop for video editing but it's great for gigs,
when I use to vj I would just tape it to another piece of gear and hit record and get the whole nights live tweaking to mess with the next day :)
Image

here is a good example that shows the artifacting it produces not good but tolerable until I can afford better, the spinning box shows up the lines quite well
[video][/video]
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Post by xart » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:06 pm

daverj wrote:I have one of the few DV camcorders that has composite in/out.
This looks like an interesting option. What DV cam is this?

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Post by nickciontea » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:09 pm

xart wrote:
daverj wrote:I have one of the few DV camcorders that has composite in/out.
This looks like an interesting option. What DV cam is this?
i have a sony vx2000 that i use to capture composite straight thru to the firewire and my computer

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Post by MrDys » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:13 pm

I use an Elgato EyeTV Hybrid. Not high quality, but I get some good stuff out of it. I'd love to get something nicer, but this'll do for now. (The MXO2 won't work with my iMac :sadbanana: )

Part of me really wants to go the DV/VHS route and take the computer out of the equation until later on. My computer is aging and it may be better suited for editing after the fact than capturing. I've definitely got some unwanted stuttering when I least expected it. :(
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Post by barto » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:23 pm

i use the canopus advc 110 to capture composite/svideo. works pretty well for me. ive had bad experiences with cheap USB composite capture devices especially with audio often getting unsynchronized to the video

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Post by kjellb » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:32 pm

To record live performances I use a Canon HV 10 camera with composite video input and record in DV. For studio work I use the AJA Io and record uncompressed to disk in FCP.

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Post by daverj » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:42 am

xart wrote:
daverj wrote:I have one of the few DV camcorders that has composite in/out.
This looks like an interesting option. What DV cam is this?
The one I use is a fairly early DV camcorder. The Sony DCR-TRV9

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Post by BRIZ » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:21 am

that stand alone little Avid Pinnacle Video Transfer is a cool and handy little unit.

wcfields - thanks for the tip on chroma subsampling - looks to be vital if you want to "up convert" the quality. the Blackmagic also does 4:2:2 sampling .... but all the system compatibility requirements are intimidating on the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle. looks like the Matrox MXO2 is the way to go... then hell - i'll have to buy Adobe Premiere also????

AJA - nice!.... 2K.... ouch.

thanks much for all the input.

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Post by daverj » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:44 am

It depends a lot on what it's being used for. 4:1:1 is not that bad. The detail of most video signals is in the luminance portion, which is the same for all of those formats. And compared to something like VHS or S-VHS, DV is miles ahead.

At first TV stations wouldn't use DV, or would turn it black & white before using it. But it then became standard fare to broadcast it, and eventually 4:1:1 was the most common field recording method for broadcasters before HD took over.

And there's something not right about that lower row of images, which I'm assuming is one of the color channels. A lot of that looks more like compression artifacts than chroma subsampling artifacts.

xart

Post by xart » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:48 am

daverj wrote:The one I use is a fairly early DV camcorder. The Sony DCR-TRV9
Thanks Dave! (Now get back to working on your new modules!) :tu:

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Post by daverj » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:03 pm

xart wrote:
daverj wrote:The one I use is a fairly early DV camcorder. The Sony DCR-TRV9
Thanks Dave! (Now get back to working on your new modules!) :tu:
I do a bit of that every day. Last night I brought the latest revision of my VideOscillator to life. I'm hoping next week I'll have a chance to plug it into a Rutt-Etra and see how it looks.

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Post by wcfields » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Does anyone use VJ software (Modul8, VDMX) or MaxMSP / PureData with their analog gear?

How do you interface? Do you setup MIDI Control (Like much of the newer Roland/Edirol has), Control Voltages from a multi-track recorder, or and video I/O?
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Post by lizlarsen » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:12 pm

I use Resolume, but haven't tried the new version. It's very easy to assign multiple channels separately to Red, Green and Blue and then add them together to the output image. With full color RGB going into the video synth, I can then access all three channels separately as monochrome images within the patch.

I've mapped out Resolume to my DIY midi sequencer (Midibox SEQ4) for live control, but haven't tried any CV conversion back/forth yet.

I've used Ableton and Silent Way to send CV's out on a timeline, and Ableton also allows video embedding/playback on its timeline too. Not exactly VJ software, but pretty handy if you don't need to do much video manipulation in the computer but want source footage and CV modulation sync'ed up with an audio track.

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Post by barto » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:40 pm

i have the numark nuvj thing, you can go full screen on a 2nd monitor so i just use my scan converter into the LZX. i just got the edirol v8 and really want to see what its midi capabilities are. i also need to add a midi to cv to my list of modules

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Post by Matos » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:28 pm

I've been testing resolume, and I love it so far, although it makes my aging laptop full of sadness. When I get a new computer, I plan on keeping the first for audio and midi, then send the midi to the new one running resolume. Just waiting for the wife to get accepted into graduate school so I can get a sweet educational discount. I use both silentway and a midi to cv converter. And a genloc scan converter to get the image into the lzx. Love the flow, just need a faster rig. Vj stuff is great for transformations and mixing live before hitting the lzx for further processing. I bought an older livid controller to use exclusively with the Vj software. Best of both worlds.

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Post by LEVLHED » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:48 am

I have been using an old DPS Perception PVR for capture. It is finicky, very specific motherboard chipset, captures as a series of JPG images at 720x480 4:2:2 to SCSI drives on it's own controller. Image quality is great, but it it quite cumbersome. I've sort of retired it now and have fallen back to a AVC55 card or something like that..PCI DV analog capture. But I don't like DV. I much prefer 4:2:2 or better.

I've had my eye on an old Decklink card for ages, one of these days I'll finally pick one up.

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Post by kjellb » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:07 pm

For computer playout I used the Scan Do Pro with genlock. Used it with both Visual Jockey and VDMX but now I go modular only. I used the Matrox MXO live to playout from FCP. But the Matrox MXO does not lock to subcarrier if you need that.

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Post by nickciontea » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:24 pm

just sold off the last of my audio modules.. minus the qmmg. and bought a matrox mini with the thunderbolt adapter.

can't wait to get it on wednesday!

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Post by barto » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:25 pm

has anyone had any luck with USB capture devices for windows?

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